Outsourcing To Montblanc

October 9, 2011

After the Aurora Hastil appeared, many very similar pens followed. Montblanc outsourced its VIP to Aurora, so that the pen is substantially a Hastil with MB branding. After that MB created its own line of slim pens, variously the Noblesse and the SlimLine. I've recently bought a Noblesse. Lovely smooth nib.

My next collecting move could be to go one step back and buy a Hastil. A different way would be sideways, though. It appears that MB manufactured the GemLine series for Dunhill, those being very like the pen I've bought. I've seen a picture of a slim Ronson pen "made in Germany" that looks as if it might be another Montblanc in disguise.

Does anybody know at least a short list of luxury-brand companies that had similar slim pens manufactured for them by MB during the 1970s and 1980s?

Edited October 9, 2011 by Jerome Tarshis

October 9, 2011

After the Aurora Hastil appeared, many very similar pens followed. Montblanc outsourced its VIP to Aurora, so that the pen is substantially a Hastil with MB branding. After that MB created its own line of slim pens, variously the Noblesse and the SlimLine. I've recently bought a Noblesse. Lovely smooth nib.

My next collecting move could be to go one step back and buy a Hastil. A different way would be sideways, though. It appears that MB manufactured the GemLine series for Dunhill, those being very like the pen I've bought. I've seen a picture of a slim Ronson pen "made in Germany" that looks as if it might be another Montblanc in disguise.

Does anybody know at least a short list of luxury-brand companies that had similar slim pens manufactured for them by MB during the 1970s and 1980s?

Jerome, your researches are correct. The first slim pen of Montblanc was the Aurora "Hastil" with the Montblanc star . But the second pen, the slim matte black "VIP" fountain pen (which came with a soft black belt sleeve case) was not made by Aurora. As far as I know it was manufactured by a not-Montblanc company in Hamburg.

And yes, the Montblanc "Noblesse" (2nd series) was the base for the Dunhill "GemLine". Front sections, feeds and nibs are identical. The first "Noblesse" and the "SlimLine" series are different.

BTW, at that time Dunhill was the owner of Montblanc.

I haven't seen the slim Ronson pen but it might be possible that Montblanc was the supplier for other brands as well as Montblanc was delivered by Mutschler with the "Classic" pens as well as the "Carrera" and "Caressa" lines or by Fend with the 3- and 4-color pens or by Bossert & Erhardt with the first "Solitaire" lines. — It was common at that times that many steps of the production were sourced out and companies produced parts or even complete items for others.

October 10, 2011

First, and you may think of this as an impertinence, I cannot say how pleased I was to see the phrase "Hanseatic City of Bremen," not for the first time, because Axel posts frequently. The first time I set foot in Germany I found myself in Hamburg after seeing other parts of the country, I looked at the architecture, and I exhaled a comfortable breath and said to myself, "This is a Hanseatic city." That meant a great deal to me, because free cities meant a great deal to the history of Europe and I think to my own life.

Second, if in fact the VIP was not a rebranded Hastil, and I hope to do a little online research to resolve this matter, because I have been misinformed, no need around here to invent one's own mistakes, then it is possible that I didn't buy a Noblesse, but rather a VIP. I have a matte black pen with a steel wing nib that is definitely not that of a Hastil but is quite like a number of similar nibs that appeared on other pens of the 1970s and 1980s. I began with Cross, but I could have begun with Geha or several other manufacturers of that time.

The eBay seller advertised the pen as a Noblesse, it had at least approximately the right kind of clip for a first-edition Noblesse, but it has instead of the later plastic section a brushed-metal section that holds ink in the most tenacious way. Dip pen in bottle, withdraw pen, try to get excess ink off brushed metal section, feel sympathy with Lady Macbeth.

Third, I know that within Germany and sometimes at longer distances fountain pens have been made with parts supplied from a multiplicity of sources. And yes, MB was owned by Dunhill when D launched the GemLine. The two companies are stablemates at Richemont today. I was just wondering who else might have sold slim crypto-MBs during the slim-pen years.

October 10, 2011

Hi Jerome,

I wrote with a Montblanc Slimline during my last years at school and bought a Gemline some years ago on eBay. Until last week, I was pretty sure that the Gemline was produced by Montblanc for Dunhill: Exactly the same dimensions (nibs, sections, caps are interchangeable), but significantly more attention to detail on the Dunhill (gold nib, ebonite feed, spring loaded clip).

However, FPN member Kaweco posted in another thread, that he thinks the Slimline/Noblesse pens were made by Mutschler for Montblanc. So maybe Montblanc and Dunhill both had their pens made by the same contractor - Mutschler - and share the some parts?

Chers,

Aris

PS: Yes, a hanseatic city makes a big difference in many aspects

October 10, 2011

On the other side of the world from all of the companies involved, I find myself confused, because I can do no more than consult what appears to be documentary evidence: I didn't live through all of this, as I might have if I'd spent the appropriate years in Germany. Tom Westerich's Web site, fountainpen.de, asserts that the only Montblanc pen not manufactured by Montblanc was the VIP, which is shown on the Web site to be virtually identical to the Hastil.

Axel says, above, that the VIP was not a Hastil with Montblanc branding.

In another place Tom Westerich has posted a Montblanc catalogue for 1973, which I have not yet examined to see the pictures of the VIP, if there are any. (At home I have only dial-up Internet access, and that catalogue comes as a PDF of more than 5 MB, so I shall wait until I have access to another computer and a faster connection.) That catalogue may tell the story, although I'd be surprised if the collectors' pages of fountainpen.de would contradict another document also posted by the same hand. And I think MB would know what the VIP looked like.

Perhaps there was more than one kind of VIP over a period of years, as it might be said that the Noblesse line evolved from a slim metal pen to the plastic-bodied Noblesse Oblige.

If I pluck up enough courage, I may inquire at the Montblanc boutique in San Francisco: it is conceivable that the boutiques have access to a database that gives information about individual models throughout the history of the company. I don't say it's probable that the company does any such thing, but the idea seems natural enough.

Edited October 10, 2011 by Jerome Tarshis

October 10, 2011

Axel says, above, that the VIP was not a Hastil with Montblanc branding.

Sorry if i confused you.

I didn't say the VIP was not a Hastil. Of course it is!

What I tried to say is that there was another Montblanc pen which also was called VIP. The second "very important pen for very important people" (as Montblanc said) was the matte black pen which had a rhodinized gold nib. So "VIP" was just a marketing name for some of the slim pens (like "Diplomat" was used for a short periode for the 149), the real name for the Hastil-Montblanc is: #1225 and for the matte black Montblanc it is: #1124.

Perhaps there was more than one kind of VIP over a period of years ...

Yes.

... as it might be said that the Noblesse line evolved from a slim metal pen to the plastic-bodied Noblesse Oblige.

No. The Noblesse Oblige is a different and much cheaper line and was produced at the same time as the Noblesse III line.

If I pluck up enough courage, I may inquire at the Montblanc boutique in San Francisco: it is conceivable that the boutiques have access to a database that gives information about individual models throughout the history of the company. I don't say it's probable that the company does any such thing, but the idea seems natural enough.

OH, dream on. :blink: It would be the eight's "Wonder of the World" if any Montblanc staff at any Montblanc Boutique have knowledge about the history of any products or product lines of Montblanc which dates back more than 10 years. They often even say that a mint looking pen from the 80th must be a fake as they simply don't know it.

For example: To a 3-piece-set Noblesse I in steel with golden trim belongs a pencil which had a black star to recognize from the top in a man's pocket which one is the ballpoint and which one is the pencil. I doubt that even one of onehundred employees of Montblanc would know this ...

But test it and perhaps I am wrong which would make me very happy!

And for the Mutschler-story: FPN member Kaweco was wrong if he said so, Mutschler couldn't make metal pens. They only could do injection moulding technique. And BTW, I saw the Dunhill GemLine pens (as well as these Dunhill pens: Dunhill fountain pens whose name I forgot) been made within the Montblanc factory on some of my many visits.

October 10, 2011

Axel says, above, that the VIP was not a Hastil with Montblanc branding.
Sorry if i confused you. I didn't say the VIP was not a Hastil. Of course it is!
What I tried to say is that there was another Montblanc pen which also was called VIP. The second "very important pen for very important people" (as Montblanc said) was the matte black pen which had a rhodinized gold nib. So "VIP" was just a marketing name for some of the slim pens (like "Diplomat" was used for a short periode for the 149), the real name for the Hastil-Montblanc is: #1225 and for the matte black Montblanc it is: #1124.

Perhaps there was more than one kind of VIP over a period of years ...
Yes.
... as it might be said that the Noblesse line evolved from a slim metal pen to the plastic-bodied Noblesse Oblige.
No. The Noblesse Oblige is a different and much cheaper line and was produced at the same time as the Noblesse III line.

If I pluck up enough courage, I may inquire at the Montblanc boutique in San Francisco: it is conceivable that the boutiques have access to a database that gives information about individual models throughout the history of the company. I don't say it's probable that the company does any such thing, but the idea seems natural enough.
OH, dream on. :blink: It would be the eight's "Wonder of the World" if any Montblanc staff at any Montblanc Boutique have knowledge about the history of any products or product lines of Montblanc which dates back more than 10 years. They often even say that a mint looking pen from the 80th must be a fake as they simply don't know it.
For example: To a 3-piece-set Noblesse I in steel with golden trim belongs a pencil which had a black star to recognize from the top in a man's pocket which one is the ballpoint and which one is the pencil. I doubt that even one of onehundred employees of Montblanc would know this ...
But test it and perhaps I am wrong which would make me very happy!

And for the Mutschler-story: FPN member Kaweco was wrong if he said so, Mutschler couldn't make metal pens. They only could do injection moulding technique. And BTW, I saw the Dunhill GemLine pens (as well as these Dunhill pens: Dunhill fountain pens whose name I forgot) been made within the Montblanc factory on some of my many visits.

Hello Axel,

in another thread I pointed out, that the Gemline pens were probably made by Montblanc.

Shortly after I bought my Gemline, I experienced some problems with the nib and asked Tom Westerich to take a look at the nib - not knowing who he is. Looked him up on Google and called him, as he was living just a few blocks away from my place. He said, the Gemline pens were made by Montblanc.

Back at home, I took my old Slimline and noticed that both pens were pretty similar.

Far from being and expert, I got confused when Kaweco asked me for evidence as he thought Slimline/Noblesse pens were made by Mutschler. Hence the idea, that maybe Dunhill and Montblanc had their pens made by Mutschler.

I'm glad that you are able to provide some more profound knowledge!

Regards,

Aris

October 11, 2011

Thanks to all for jumping in and helping. Although this thread hasn't provided any new candidates, I've learned elsewhere that PaperMate's high-quality metal fountain pens of the 1980s were arguably made by Montblanc. I hadn't been paying attention, and was only vaguely aware of those pens.

As for buying a very important pen for very important people, that is obviously an embarrassment whether or not the nib is smooth. It's hardly an improvement that if I didn't put myself forward as a VIP though probably a commoner, I could wait a year or two and become one of the Noblesse. Also not an example of good taste.

The only consolation, if it is one, is that the object is a pen and not an artillery piece, so I am putting myself forward as one of the nobility of the robe rather than of the sword. I suppose nobody forced me to buy the pen, but here I am anyway, holding myself up to ridicule.