Waterman Commando?

[dcpritch]

So this past summer I was driving with my son on a long road trip from Minnesota to California. We stopped into a little Midwest town and decided to check out an antique store, where I asked the owner if he had any fountain pens. At first he said no, then he said, "Well, yeah, in fact I have just one (reaching into a desk drawer and then handing me the pen below), this beat-up old black thing that has never worked. Tell you what, I'll give it to you for free." "Free?" "Yep, free. Have a nice day!" Clearly, one of the best deals of all time.

 

Well, the pen was in pretty rough shape, dirty, old dried ink everywhere, sac ossified, cap bands brassed, bent and loose, but I think it is a Commando, or at least a Waterman of that same vintage. The nib says "Waterman's / Emblem / Pen"; the clip is inscribed "Waterman's", and I can't see any other markings on the barrel, cap, section or feed. I've done some research and Commando is the best I can come up with.

 

I cleaned off much of the old sac but then, as I was thinking about it replacing it, I wondered if I might take the nib and feed and send them to one of our resident pen makers to put into a custom pen. Would that be sacrilege? The nib is fantastic! Do you think the pen would be worth much if I restored it? The cap and barrel are pretty well scratched and gouged, and the cap bands are bent and loose, so I doubt it would ever graduate beyond nice user status.

 

Here are the photos I took this evening:

 

[The Royal Pen]

Looks like a Commando to me. They're quite valuable, so hold on to it.

[dcpritch]

What about the nib that says Emblem Pen - that confused me. Did some of the Commandos have that nib?

[Readymade]

It might be an Emblem pen. They're the successor to the 100 Year Pen.

 

http://www.richardspens.com/?page=ref/profiles/hundred_year.htm

 

Awesome find btw. Congrats!

[dcpritch]

It might be an Emblem pen. They're the successor to the 100 Year Pen.

 

http://www.richardsp...undred_year.htm

 

Awesome find btw. Congrats!

 

Thanks for the input, and for the congrats. I have looked hard at the reference pages on Richards Pens, but it looks like all the 100 Year Pens and Emblem Pens have wide cap bands, whereas the Commandos have two thin cap bands as does mine. I guess that is why I am still unsure, because the two pens were made around the same time, the Commando being a middle range version and the HYP being Waterman's upper range offering. Plus, the rounded barrel end and lack of any imprint on the barrel confounds me. I have seen references that Waterman put a Commando imprint on all such pens, and have also read about some Canadian made pens which had the rounded barrel end.

 

Is it customary or possible for a Commando to have a nib that says "Emblem Pen"? I'm aware the nib could have been fit to the pen at some later date, but I'm wondering if the original combination is possible.

[brettttt]

Hi dcpritch,

 

I'm wondering if it's not more likely that the cap is from a Commando and the rest from a Medalist ("Emblem Pen"). Medalists without barrel markings are common--now that I think of it, I don't know if I've ever seen one *with* a barrel imprint. I've never tried to put a Commando cap on a Medalist, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if they fit. And given the high number of strangely outfitted Watermans from the postwar era, it seems entirely possible that the parts were shipped and sold together originally.

 

BTW, could you explain what you mean about the rounded barrel end? I'm having a hard time coming up with a way to distinguish the two models based on the shape of the barrel end, but I've never given it much thought and I'd love to learn about some subtle distinction that I've been overlooking.

 

Best regards,

Brett

[dcpritch]

Hi Brett,

 

Thanks for sharing your knowledge - I am just beginning my learning on these pens. I had not thought that it might be a mismatched cap and barrel, and was not previously familiar with the Waterman Medalist model (but in looking - and finding a post by you about the Medalist being the successor to the HYP - I understand your comment); now that you mention it I think there is some serious merit to your theory.

 

As far as the rounded end of my pen vs. the Commando, I think I mispoke, because I was thinking of the black, clear and colored barrel ends on the Hundred Year Pens, a design which was carried forward in the Commando. My pen has a continuous barrel, with no end (even a black one) attached, so I was making that distinction rather than one based on the actual shape.

 

Do you think it would be possible or likely for a Medalist to have an Emblem Nib?

[brettttt]

 

Do you think it would be possible or likely for a Medalist to have an Emblem Nib?

 

I've no doubt caused unnecessary confusion by trying to tease out a theory about your pen while at the same time slipping in a little preaching on a pet topic, namely what I see to be the inaccuracy of the model name "Emblem pen." Rather than continue trying to do both, I've created a separate thread about the naming issue.

 

The simple answer to your question is that lots of Medalists had/have nibs marked "Emblem Pen." Some have nibs marked "Hundred Year Pen," and at least a few are marked "Ideal 14KT." The Ideal-inscribed ones that I've seen also had the number "17" (size) stamped pretty high up, so that it's visible, whereas the size number on nibs with the other two imprints aren't generally visible unless you remove the nib from the section. And some don't have a size imprint at all.

 

I thought you were going to ask whether a Commando nib would fit in a HYP/Medalist, though I now see there's no reason you would, since that isn't a possible scenario for your pen. My instinctive reaction to that question, though, is that the section bores are different sizes and so the points wouldn't easily interchange. At any rate, this whole thread has gotten me curious--I'll have to do some experimental mixing and matching this evening, unless someone who already has the answers chimes in first.

 

Best regards,

Brett

[dcpritch]

Brett, I'm waiting to hear how your mix-n-match party went.

[brettttt]

The party wasn't as well-attended as I had hoped--the only full-size Commando I turned up doesn't have a section/nib unit. So I couldn't compare the size of the boreholes. The caps swapped without issue, though. And, for what it's worth, so did the caps from a women's-size Commando and a women's-size Hundred Year pen.

 

Brett

[dcpritch]

Hi Brett,

 

Taking a look at my pen now after reading your posts and separate threads, it certainly seems the model I have shown is some sort of hybrid. Whether the hybridization was original from Waterman, or made up by someone in the field trying to fashion a repair, we will probably never know. I think, though, that with the Commando cap, the Emblem Nib, and the Medalist barrel, I might name my pen a "Commandalist", or maybe a "Medando", but I shall stay away from anything smacking of the name "Emblem".

 

Thanks for the great help and knowledge you've shared.

 

DAVID

[brettttt]

David,

 

"Medando" has a nice ring, I think.

 

Also, before I forget to mention it: Based on the last pic and your writing sample, it looks like you might have gotten a really nice fine, flexible point. In my book those are euphoric regardless of what's imprinted on them. How would you rate the flexibility? Oh, and beautiful ink. Every time I've gone to buy Iroshizuku ink I've talked myself out of it when I saw the price tag. But you may have given me the necessary courage for next time.

 

Brett

[dcpritch]

David,

 

"Medando" has a nice ring, I think.

 

Also, before I forget to mention it: Based on the last pic and your writing sample, it looks like you might have gotten a really nice fine, flexible point. In my book those are euphoric regardless of what's imprinted on them. How would you rate the flexibility? Oh, and beautiful ink. Every time I've gone to buy Iroshizuku ink I've talked myself out of it when I saw the price tag. But you may have given me the necessary courage for next time.

 

Brett

 

Medando it is, then. Thanks!

 

And yes, the pen has an amazingly flexible nib, is quite smooth and, though I had only dipped it, writes like a dream. You can see in one of the flex tests that it feathered quite badly - that is because I had just dipped the pen again so as to avoid railroad tracks, and I think I had a bit too much ink in the feed. Though I don't have equipment to measure the smallest line, the widest part is just better than 2mm wide, which is probably in the range of 1:10 line ratio - quite exceptional, and the nib comes back from a fully flexed position quite nicely. I suspect that with a new sac and some decent paper the line might be even wider. All in all, quite an excellent nib, almost a super-flex according to the description of some here on FPN, and based on some of the other flex nibs I have.

 

That Iroshizuku fuyu-gaki is just great ink, and puts down a wonderful line. I have 9 of the Iro line and have yet to find one that doesn't amaze me.