Jump to content


Photo

The Classic Tripod Grip


  • Please log in to reply
83 replies to this topic

#1 troglokev

troglokev

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,597 posts

Posted 02 August 2011 - 20:49

The four step program

Step 1: Balance the pen between your webbing and your middle finger.

Posted Image

Step 2: Rest your forefinger against the pen. The pen is now stable under its own weight, with three points of contact. Test it: tip your hand away from yourself, the pen should not fall out.

Posted Image

Step 3: Close thumb gently over the pen, in the natural manner. The pen will move up your knuckle a little as your hand changes shape. Let it sit where it wants to.

Posted Image

Step 4: Write.

Posted Image

Once you're used to holding the pen, you don't need the first couple of steps. You just pick it up. However, they are a useful exercise when you find yourself squeezing the pen too hard.

Edited by troglokev, 02 August 2011 - 21:22.


#2 777

777

    Donor Pen

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,021 posts
  • Location:Big Sandy, Tennessee
  • Flag:

Posted 02 August 2011 - 21:08

Excellent tutorial! Thank you! Finally someone took the time to come out with this in picture form... Posted Image

Luckily I have been blessed with a natural perfect grip on my pens... Posted Image

Regards,
777 - Tyler Dahl :D

Need a pen repaired or a nib re-ground? I'd love to help you out.


Posted Image


Colossians 3:17 - And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.


#3 troglokev

troglokev

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,597 posts

Posted 02 August 2011 - 21:41

A variation on the above is to move the forefinger on top of the pen. This is useful to control flex, for pens that have it, and scripts that use it. I prefer the classic grip for general writing.

Posted Image

Edited by troglokev, 02 August 2011 - 21:43.


#4 Desertsnowman

Desertsnowman

    Near Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPip
  • 33 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 02 August 2011 - 21:45

Neet- Could you demonstrate the much mentioned "Death Grip" ?

a never mind I just saw a previous post.

Edited by Desertsnowman, 02 August 2011 - 21:51.


#5 Redbarchettayyz

Redbarchettayyz

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 364 posts
  • Location:Edmonton
  • Flag:

Posted 03 August 2011 - 02:28

Thank you so much for this! My first fountain pen came in today, and this little tutorial has been very helpful!
Get some tasty knowledge -
Frederick Kaff's Illogical Conclusions

Current Rotation: Montblanc 234 1/2g - M, Sailor 1911M - F, Montblanc 34 - OB, Montblanc 24 - OM, Montblanc 14 - M, 1946 Parker Vacumatic - F

#6 andybiotic

andybiotic

    Check out my 14K flexible...

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,257 posts
  • Location:Auckland, New Zealand
  • Flag:

Posted 03 August 2011 - 03:04

hmm... Interesting, my thumb is a bit lower in the grip, it is near or at the same level as the index finger (at the section), I find that it is easier to control the pen... Thanks for the demonstration! :thumbup:

Posted Image

I hope that is still the tripod! :hmm1: Hey, a tripod needs all three legs at equal lengths to stand balanced! :roflmho:

Excuse my fingernail on the pinky... :embarrassed_smile:

By the way, this is how I used to hold pens, and still do sometimes... with pencils when sketching :embarrassed_smile: ) This is my version, if not THE version of death grip, note the blood shot index finger tip:

Posted Image

Edited by andybiotic, 04 August 2011 - 00:57.

Posted Image

#7 backsideslappy

backsideslappy

    Near Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPip
  • 43 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 03 August 2011 - 03:22

I am pleased to see that my grip is, and has been for some time, quite in line with the tripod. My sister, however, has a terrible case of death grip. I imagine that the Lamy Safari would be a particularly useful tool to get rid of death-gripping, as the countours would make it most difficult.

#8 watch_art

watch_art

    Pen Making Madness

  • Moderators

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,276 posts
  • Location:hot springs, arkansas, usa
  • Flag:

Posted 03 August 2011 - 03:48

wow kev. You have HUGE hands. great photos and excellent demonstration of a good grip.

fpn_1405136194__fpn_1404594699__sg_tag.j sigpic14481_1.gif vanness.jpg?t=1321916122


#9 Reene

Reene

    Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 124 posts
  • Location:Native New Yorker, now in the Southwest

Posted 03 August 2011 - 05:15

Ahh, That sure feels better! Thanks for this valuable lesson troglokev!

#10 lady_findel

lady_findel

    Crazy Pen Lady

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 86 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 03 August 2011 - 07:35

I have a problem where my index finger cannot decide whether it wants to be in the deathgrip or the perfect tripod. I think I need more practice to control it.
My pens: Montblanc 145 Chopin burgundy and gold F, Waterman Audace Summer Night F, Waterman Phileas Marbled Gray M, Rembrandt Visconti black F, Lamy 2000 EF, Wality eyedropper F, Sailor Realo M, Sailor 1911 Music nib, Namiki Falcon SF, Platinum Maestro #3776 F, Sailor Creatures of the Deep Seahorse B nib, Visconti Art Nouveau M, Stipula Il Giardino LE 1.1 stub

Posted Image

#11 troglokev

troglokev

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,597 posts

Posted 03 August 2011 - 08:46

Hey, a tripod needs all three legs at equal lengths to stand balanced! :roflmho:


Actually it only requires that the centre of mass is over the triangle formed by the support points. Your grip looks fine, your thumb is just a little longer than mine. The old grip, on the other hand...

Ouch.

Ahh, That sure feels better! Thanks for this valuable lesson troglokev!


This makes it worth mucking around taking the photos. Thanks, Reene!

Edited by troglokev, 03 August 2011 - 09:16.


#12 andybiotic

andybiotic

    Check out my 14K flexible...

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,257 posts
  • Location:Auckland, New Zealand
  • Flag:

Posted 03 August 2011 - 09:12


Hey, a tripod needs all three legs at equal lengths to stand balanced! :roflmho:


Actually it only requires that the centre of mass to be over the triangle formed by the support points. Your grip looks fine, your thumb is just a little longer than mine. The old grip, on the other hand...

Ouch.


Ah, you learn new things everyday :thumbup: ! Good to know that mine grip is fine also. I once took an three hour exam writing fast and non-stop using my death grip on a cheap bic ballpoint :crybaby: ! I guess you wounldn't notice it when you are in "the zone"! It felt like my arm was about to fall off afterwards though! Good thing it was my very last exam!
Posted Image

#13 troglokev

troglokev

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,597 posts

Posted 03 August 2011 - 10:47

I have a problem where my index finger cannot decide whether it wants to be in the deathgrip or the perfect tripod. I think I need more practice to control it.

Try turning your hand over, and letting go with your thumb from time to time, just to relax your hand a bit. (i.e. step 2)

#14 Bo Bo Olson

Bo Bo Olson

    Ancient Artifact

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,459 posts
  • Location:Germany

Posted 03 August 2011 - 13:50

I like my forefinger at 12:30 (can put it at 12:00 also), and if posted my thumb a bit back up the barrel.
There is no pressure needed with the forefinger on top. You don't have to 'learn' no pressure, it's automatic.

Remember to grasp the pen like a featherless little baby bird, and you are fine.

Semi-flex is an “almost” flex; not a ‘flex’ nib. It is great for regular writing. It can give you some fancy; but it is not made for real fancy writing. For that get a 'flexi' or a "flex" nib.

"

 

Wider than Normal does not exist. Wider than Japanese does. Every company has it's very own standard + slop/tolerance. Developed from the users of it's pens only; not the users of other companies pens. The size you grind a nib to, is your standard only. Paper and ink matter to nib width. Thank god for 1/2 sizes or it would be boring.


#15 Uncle Red

Uncle Red

    Museum Piece

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,337 posts
  • Location:Pittsburgh,PA
  • Flag:

Posted 03 August 2011 - 13:59

Thanks Kev, I'll be trying this at work today.

#16 Blizzard42

Blizzard42

    Ink Gourmet

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 123 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 03 August 2011 - 14:49

How does the death grip look like? How do I know I'm doing a death grip? With the grip you mentioned I find it too uncontrollable, especially with pens with skinny grip section, however it does not a bad job on a HS.
I also can't quite do the grip you do, my index finger slips ontop of the pen, while still staying in its natural position, not pointed like you recommended for flex, but else my index finger is not relaxed when trying to do like in your picture. I guess that may be the reason for the unstability.
I can't imagine being able to do flex with this grip, however, no problems with my usual grip.

#17 Mickey

Mickey

    Contemporary Philosopher

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,750 posts
  • Location:CA
  • Flag:

Posted 03 August 2011 - 14:52

The most important features of the tripod grip are (obviously) the three point finger connection, low pressure, and minimum flex in the first knuckle of the index finger and thumb. Natural variations in hand size and confirmation are going vary the appearance of individual instances. In other words, go for the concept, don't try to ape a particular photo.

I don't think the "finger over" variant is particularly desirable or useful. As for its utility with flex nibs, the better way to apply pressure is via wrist flex and hand rotation. That technique allows pressure to be applied not only straight downward, but through a ranges of angles, allowing the pen to trace curving shades with minimal nib chattering. This approach also doesn't imbalance the grip pressure as much as pressing down with the index finger. The grip as a whole transmits the pressure and the releasing of the pressure naturally returns the point to it's normal pressure on (and geometric relation to) the page.

Edited by Mickey, 03 August 2011 - 14:54.

But I believe that since my life began

The most I've had is just a talent to abuse.

Hey ho, if love were all.

 

With apologies to Noel Coward


#18 flexiblefine

flexiblefine

    Amateur Scribbler

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPip
  • 17 posts

Posted 03 August 2011 - 14:54

What pen is that you're using in the photos? The nib with the cut-outs at the shoulder intrigues me.
flexiblefine: Houston, Texas, USA
Do you procrastinate? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheNowHabit/

#19 jpdyson

jpdyson

    Near Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPip
  • 46 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 03 August 2011 - 14:54

I have tried and tried and tried, but I just can't write legibly this way. I don't squeeze my pen, but I do use 4 fingers. Think of it as a tripod grip between thumb, middle, and ring with a dead-weight index on top. I have thick hands, and this minimizes the amount of "meat" under the pen, and is super comfy for me.

#20 777

777

    Donor Pen

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,021 posts
  • Location:Big Sandy, Tennessee
  • Flag:

Posted 03 August 2011 - 15:18

<br />What pen is that you're using in the photos? The nib with the cut-outs at the shoulder intrigues me.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

If I'm not mistaken, he's using a namiki/pilot falcon. It's a semi-flexible nib - hence the cutouts...

I kinda want one myself... :)

Need a pen repaired or a nib re-ground? I'd love to help you out.


Posted Image


Colossians 3:17 - And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.


#21 Mickey

Mickey

    Contemporary Philosopher

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,750 posts
  • Location:CA
  • Flag:

Posted 03 August 2011 - 17:34

<br />What pen is that you're using in the photos? The nib with the cut-outs at the shoulder intrigues me.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

If I'm not mistaken, he's using a namiki/pilot falcon. It's a semi-flexible nib - hence the cutouts...

I kinda want one myself... :)


You must mean the falcon nib, which is not available on pens made for the US market. The Falcon pen doesn't have the cut outs.

But I believe that since my life began

The most I've had is just a talent to abuse.

Hey ho, if love were all.

 

With apologies to Noel Coward


#22 spaniard

spaniard

    Near Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPip
  • 42 posts
  • Location:Madrid, Spain
  • Flag:

Posted 03 August 2011 - 21:25

With this illustration in the RUBIO calligraphy notebooks, all spanish children of my generation learned to grip a pen :rolleyes:

Posted Image
Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?
Groucho Marx

#23 professionaldilettante

professionaldilettante

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,947 posts
  • Location:Kansas City, Missouri

Posted 03 August 2011 - 22:59

Excellent. There is no way for that grip to develop a death grip, as I found the tripod pencil grip to usually do. Thanks! It's going to take me some time to relearn, but hey, that's the name of the game with fountain pens. If it were stagnant, I wouldn't find its allure.
The heart has its reasons which reason knows nothing of.
Blaise Pascal

Posted Image

Tell me about any of your new pens and help with fountain pen quality control research!

#24 Skyclad

Skyclad

    Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 122 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 03 August 2011 - 23:31

With this illustration in the RUBIO calligraphy notebooks, all spanish children of my generation learned to grip a pen :rolleyes:

Posted Image


I can't seem to hold my pen well in the correct position as show here because its too lax and the top half of the pen tends to move slightly in my hand as I write. But if I tighten my grip, then I end up like the incorrect position picture. :gaah:

#25 watch_art

watch_art

    Pen Making Madness

  • Moderators

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,276 posts
  • Location:hot springs, arkansas, usa
  • Flag:

Posted 03 August 2011 - 23:54


With this illustration in the RUBIO calligraphy notebooks, all spanish children of my generation learned to grip a pen :rolleyes:

Posted Image


I can't seem to hold my pen well in the correct position as show here because its too lax and the top half of the pen tends to move slightly in my hand as I write. But if I tighten my grip, then I end up like the incorrect position picture. :gaah:


then work it a little until the pen doesn't wiggle. i can apply a little more pressure with my thumb and that helps a lot, but I don't have problems with my pens moving.

fpn_1405136194__fpn_1404594699__sg_tag.j sigpic14481_1.gif vanness.jpg?t=1321916122


#26 mstone

mstone

    Pensive Penman

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,402 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 04 August 2011 - 00:08

I can't seem to hold my pen well in the correct position as show here because its too lax and the top half of the pen tends to move slightly in my hand as I write. But if I tighten my grip, then I end up like the incorrect position picture. :gaah:


Less downward pressure, perhaps.

#27 Mickey

Mickey

    Contemporary Philosopher

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,750 posts
  • Location:CA
  • Flag:

Posted 04 August 2011 - 00:28

I can't seem to hold my pen well in the correct position as show here because its too lax and the top half of the pen tends to move slightly in my hand as I write. But if I tighten my grip, then I end up like the incorrect position picture. :gaah:


The reason the pen is moving around is probably because you are unaccustomed to holding it firmly (but not tightly) or you are pressing too hard, probably both. When you press too hard, the friction between paper and nib can pull the pen around in your hand. The natural reaction is to squeeze back. If the nib glides on the paper; the pen won't try to move around in your hand.

Remember it's handwriting, not finger writing. Think about moving the hand (and arm) more and letting your fingers simply act as a prop to hold the pen in the correct position. Let the hand guide the pen, not the fingers.

Get used to holding the pen firmly, but with minimum pressure, while doing something else, like reading or watching TV. When you've got that feeling and the pen stays put, then try writing. It's like the golf grip: place your hands firmly where they are supposed to be, then don't squeeze, but don't go limp as a jellyfish, either.

Seriously, an introductory course in Tai Chi would probably help you find the correct sense of grip.

But I believe that since my life began

The most I've had is just a talent to abuse.

Hey ho, if love were all.

 

With apologies to Noel Coward


#28 Skyclad

Skyclad

    Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 122 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 04 August 2011 - 01:02

It is possible that I am just holding the pen too lose being that I usually hold the pen with a pinch grip (Posicion Incorrecta). And most of my writing is done with my hand, except for lower case I's and E's, then its a combination of hand and fingers due to their size.

So now I have to learn how to write underhanded (will be getting my dip pen and flex nibs shortly) and with a lose grip. As of right now, a pinch grip is the only thing that keeps my lines steady and even when writing.

#29 mstone

mstone

    Pensive Penman

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,402 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 04 August 2011 - 03:33

As of right now, a pinch grip is the only thing that keeps my lines steady and even when writing.


it could just be a matter of practice. retraining always takes a while, and will feel more awkward until it's been practiced into muscle memory.

#30 Skyclad

Skyclad

    Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 122 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 04 August 2011 - 03:36

Very true, I agree.