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Carter's Sunset Red


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Carter's Sunset Red

 

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn130/ToasterPastryphoto/Carters_red_ink.jpg

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/munsonhsr/Carters%20Inks/DSC_0004.jpg

Drawing of the Carter's plant with its large electric sign, as could be seen from the Charles River in Boston. This drawing was taken from Carter's own publication, "The Story Your Ink Bottle Tells," 1927. (Courtesy of philm.)

 

 

If you have kept track of my rantings, you may well know that I am big into vintage red ink these days. Several months ago I started using a red ink, and had spilled a few drops on my fingers. Someone had commented that I had blood on my hands, which sounded pretty morbid. But, of course, this drew my fascination for finding the bloodiest of inks. I have found that many of the vintage red inks have stayed true to color over many years, that includes: Sheaffer, Parker, Waterman’s, Crescent Freflo, and of course Carter’s. The Carter’s Sunset Red is my most recent acquisition. Like the other Carter’s Inks, it is a pleasure to write with. Cresent’s Fleflo is about the closest I have seen in terms of venous blood, but Carter’s is a close second. Carter’s red ink writes lighter, almost a cherry red, but dries to more of a brick red, depending upon the flow and shading.

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/munsonhsr/Carters%20Inks/DSC_0012.jpg

 

 

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn130/ToasterPastryphoto/Carters_ink_ad_1941.jpg

 

Fountain Pen Network and its subsidiaries does not endorse the use of Style Parades. However, if you choose to have a Style Parade in the privacy of your own home, please ensure that you use Carter's. These ads appeared in 1941. (I intend to run the Style Parade joke into the ground.)

 

 

Carter’s, a Boston-based company, was once the largest ink manufacturer in the world, producing ink for almost every application until the company operation was purchased in 1975 by Avery-Dennison. They were one of the first companies in the 1860s to introduce blue-black ink. Carter’s is most recently recognized for its decorative cube-shaped jars from the 1940s to 1950s featuring entertaining artwork, but they also introduced collectable jars from the earlier part of the 20th century. The cubes were designed to be inserted mouth-downward into Carter's ink-stand. As a collector, I try to find ones with inks still in them. In most cases the bottles are empty. Sometimes the ink has dried to powder and can be reconstituted. Rarely, full bottles turn up. If you plan to purchase vintage ink, beware that some bottles contain sludge and fungus. This ink should never be loaded into a fountain pen.

 

From about 1937 to 1942, Carter's ink designated their colors as Permanent, Waterproof, and Sunset, with the colored inks like red, violet and green receiving the Sunset designation. The Permanent and Waterproof lines were primarily blue, black and blue-black. I believe that Carter's did a lot of reformulation, repackaging, and renaming. Sunset Green became Gulf Green, and then later Green. Sunset Violet became Tulip Purple, which became Mountain Violet, which became Purple. In addition to Sunset Red, I have seen Carter’s Hunter’s Red and, of course, just Red.

 

What makes writing with Carter’s Inks so special? We’re talking about writing with a 75-year-old ink here. Unlike many of the modern inks, the vintage inks were formulated with more water. Therefore, they were less saturated. They seem to work better in vintage pens with more flexible nibs. Of course, assuming some evaporation has occurred, it is difficult to know exactly what is the exact water-to-dye ratio. In this case, the ink was a bit too saturated, and initially dried in the pen. I added water, wrote with it for a bit, added more water, and tried it out again, until eventually the color, saturation, and degree of shading was to my liking. The inks rarely bleed through cheaper papers. But the drying time is sacrificed, as the ink dries on the surface of the paper. It flows well, and shades beautifully.

 

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn130/ToasterPastryphoto/Carters_red_ink_sample.jpg

These writing samples were created using Carter's Sunset Red loaded into two different fountain pens. The first pen at the top was a Waterman Emblem pen from about 1943. Shortly after I produced the sample, I spilled a drop of water on the paper. Instead of starting over, I let it dry to demonstrate the ink's impermanence to water. The second writing sample was produced using a John Holland pen from the mid-1930s. In the final drops left in the pen, the ink began to flow rather liberally from the feed. Despite that, the pen held onto the ink and I was able to produce quality script without the ink glorping onto the paper. The color is definitely darker in the second example. That's because of deeper layer of ink placed onto the paper: it's called 'shading.'

 

Comparing the color of Carter's Sunset Red to other inks produced during the same period.

 

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn130/ToasterPastryphoto/Carters_red_sample.jpg Carter's Sunset Red.

 

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn130/ToasterPastryphoto/ParkerQuink_red_sample.jpg Parker Quink Red.

 

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn130/ToasterPastryphoto/Crescent_red_sample.jpg Crescent Freflo Red.

 

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn130/ToasterPastryphoto/Skrip_red_sample.jpg Sheaffer Skrip Red.

 

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn130/ToasterPastryphoto/Watermans_CarnationRed2_sample.jpg Waterman's Carnation Red.

 

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn130/ToasterPastryphoto/Skrip_persianrose_sample.jpg Sheaffer Skrip Persian Rose.

 

 

 

 

For more information, be certain to review Phil Munson's blog entry on Carter's inks. Another take on the history of Carter's Ink (especially Carter's pens) is by Rob Astyk in Lion & Pen.

Edited by ToasterPastry

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn130/ToasterPastryphoto/pop.jpg

 

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Fascinating little article featuring an ink manufacturer that I was previously unaware of. Very nice handwriting sample, too. Thanks!

"The cultured man is the man whose interior consciousness is forever obstinately writing down, in the immaterial diary of his psyche's sense of life, every chance aspect of every new day that he is lucky enough to live to behold!" - John Cowper Powys

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What a treat! This is a fascinating reviewvof not just some vintage ink that pushing 70+ years of age, but also a history lesson of ink, advertising and the industry it self. I appreciate all the detailed pictures - thank you for a thoroughly captivating 'review' cleverly disguised as a history lesson!

- OPG4711

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I'll chime in as well on the pleasure of reading a little industry history along with a review of an ink I'll almost certainly never get a chance to use. I enjoy pens, and inks, but I have to say I enjoy them all the more (and this extends to things non-FP as well, of course) when I know a little about their provenance.

Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered

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TP...Thank you for sharing your well researched and written review....And your obvious interest

and depth of knowledge regarding Carter's Ink....Btw..enjoyed your blog.

 

Fred

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Lovely red shade. I certainly need to go hunting for a vintage nib. Thanks for the review.

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Was that from the recent EBay sale here, as the label looks different?

 

Excellent review, presentation, and background. I still am heartbroken that Carter's went out of business.

 

No. I saw that sale, but hadn't realized that the price went that high. Wow! My first thought, of course, was that my reviews are driving up the price of Carter's ink on the market. That is a bit self-centered thinking. Actually, there is a collector-market who is primarily after the cubes themselves, whether empty or full, mainly for the artwork. I, too, have a quite a collection of weird-looking ink bottles that I have picked up. But I'm not going to fight over 2-ounce bottle like that. I must admit that while I have seen that version of Sunset Red, that label is not very common. That's also a very clean label.

 

When it comes to ink, Carter's is tops as an overall company product. But there are certain inks from certain companies that I really love. For example: Parker Quink Red; Carter's Washable Blue; Skrip Emerald Green; Waterman's Carnation Red, and Skrip Persian Rose.

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn130/ToasterPastryphoto/pop.jpg

 

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TP, another vote for a fascinating read. Beyond the actual information, the way you put it all together was completely well-done. You've inspired me, and some day I hope to have a Style Parade down University Avenue in North Park. If it ever comes together, you'll be the Grand Marshal! :lol:

"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick; and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

~ Benjamin Franklin

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Was that from the recent EBay sale here, as the label looks different?

 

Excellent review, presentation, and background. I still am heartbroken that Carter's went out of business.

 

No. I saw that sale, but hadn't realized that the price went that high. Wow! My first thought, of course, was that my reviews are driving up the price of Carter's ink on the market. That is a bit self-centered thinking. Actually, there is a collector-market who is primarily after the cubes themselves, whether empty or full, mainly for the artwork. I, too, have a quite a collection of weird-looking ink bottles that I have picked up. But I'm not going to fight over 2-ounce bottle like that. I must admit that while I have seen that version of Sunset Red, that label is not very common. That's also a very clean label.

 

When it comes to ink, Carter's is tops as an overall company product. But there are certain inks from certain companies that I really love. For example: Parker Quink Red; Carter's Washable Blue; Skrip Emerald Green; Waterman's Carnation Red, and Skrip Persian Rose.

 

But is that Ebay "Permanent Red" version the same as "Sunset Red" ??

With the new FPN rules, now I REALLY don't know what to put in my signature.

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Was that from the recent EBay sale here, as the label looks different?

 

Excellent review, presentation, and background. I still am heartbroken that Carter's went out of business.

 

No. I saw that sale, but hadn't realized that the price went that high. Wow! se.

 

But is that Ebay "Permanent Red" version the same as "Sunset Red" ??

 

 

Clearly my ink is not a permanent ink, which is just fine with me (after spilling a drop on my clothes). I believe that this version of red came a few years later.

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn130/ToasterPastryphoto/pop.jpg

 

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TP.. thanks, another great one..

and yes, though I would not bid, have Carter's Ink set on auto-ebay search : )

 

May I ask why you would not bid?

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TP.. thanks, another great one..

and yes, though I would not bid, have Carter's Ink set on auto-ebay search : )

 

May I ask why you would not bid?

primarily the expense.. next, would rather see these items go to a dedicated collector, who will/is able to share them as effectively as ToasterPastry.. aquisition to review is stellar!

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Was that from the recent EBay sale here, as the label looks different?

 

Excellent review, presentation, and background. I still am heartbroken that Carter's went out of business.

 

No. I saw that sale, but hadn't realized that the price went that high. Wow! se.

 

But is that Ebay "Permanent Red" version the same as "Sunset Red" ??

 

 

Clearly my ink is not a permanent ink, which is just fine with me (after spilling a drop on my clothes). I believe that this version of red came a few years later.

 

I saw that, but yet your label says permanent. Just curious if "Sunset" was technically a different color than that EBay permanent red. I should have a backup from same seller soon. I dropped out in that aforelinked bidding war.

With the new FPN rules, now I REALLY don't know what to put in my signature.

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Sam,

 

Sorry to be such an idiot. Yes, I believe that SUNSET RED and PERMANENT RED are the SAME ink. Carter's has a habit of putting a numerical designation on their ink. The number #176 is on both bottles. Sheaffer did this as well. This is no accident, and I believe that it designates their catalog number for this ink. As I stated in the body of my text, Carter's in the late 30s-early 40s was calling all of their colored inks "Sunset," even "Sunset Green." Washable Blue has a number, and you can track that number through the years as the same color featured different art work.

 

Again sorry.

 

There is nothing magical about red ink. I would never pay $40 for 3/4 ounces of ink. That being said, I paid $30 for new old stock bottle of Skrip Persian Rose, and felt I got a great deal. However, if you are into collecting Carter's cubes, that's a different story.

Edited by ToasterPastry

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Love your ink reviews, ToasterPastry.

 

I have a larger bottle of Carter's Brilliant Red Permanent Ink, with the number 571 on it. I don't think this bottle could be from the 1930's or 1940's though, it's in too good of condition. Possibly from the 1950's or 1960's.

 

It would be interesting to know how many different permanent reds Carter's produced and how much the inks changed over time, but I guess at this point much of this information may have been lost.

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TP.. thanks, another great one..

and yes, though I would not bid, have Carter's Ink set on auto-ebay search : )

 

May I ask why you would not bid?

primarily the expense.. next, would rather see these items go to a dedicated collector, who will/is able to share them as effectively as ToasterPastry.. aquisition to review is stellar!

 

Had not thought about it that way. A rare ink should go where it would be used in the best way; a good thought.

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Love your ink reviews, ToasterPastry.

 

I have a larger bottle of Carter's Brilliant Red Permanent Ink, with the number 571 on it. I don't think this bottle could be from the 1930's or 1940's though, it's in too good of condition. Possibly from the 1950's or 1960's.

 

It would be interesting to know how many different permanent reds Carter's produced and how much the inks changed over time, but I guess at this point much of this information may have been lost.

 

Toaster, thanks for that follow up. Very much appreciated.

 

Mountolive, if you have a way to show a writing sample, that would be great. I'll do one too when mine arrives.

With the new FPN rules, now I REALLY don't know what to put in my signature.

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