Noodler's: Kung Te-Cheng

[Inka]

I received a sample bottle of Noodler's Asia-Pacific Kung te-Cheng from an FPN friend, this is my short written review [and rather wordy addendum to that].

In the written review I called the color "cobalt(?)" with a question mark, seeing that's what it looks like to me, or rather a deep blue/ purple that's more on the blue scale to my eyes.

Despite being advertised as "Emperors' Purple" I'm just not seeing it as a typical purple, but rather a touch of purple to a semi-royal blue that I called a non-assuming royal purple, and that's OK by me...

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/NoodlersKungTeChengReview.jpg

 

ADDENDUM [wordy, yet informative, for those that want to know]:

 

RESILIENCY:

I've done a HOT water wash & soak test and found this ink to be indestructible using that method, not even top layers of ink appeared to be washing away.

I've not yet done any chemical washes either, such as the bleach/ soap/ or ammonia washes that I normally do, but considering how well it holds up to scalding HOT water and other bulletproof Noodler's inks I've tested I have a strong feeling this ink too would hold up to those chemical tests just as well.

 

USE/ CLOGGING POTENTIAL; IN PENS OTHER THAN WHAT COMES WITH ORIGINAL 4.5oz BOTTLE :

As for the Lamy-Vista being used and the 1.5mm Italic nib, I've not had any ink drying out when the pen is kept capped or while in use.

However, once the cap is removed the ink dries on the nib within minutes of going unused, it takes a gentle nib-wipe on a damp paper towel or damp tissue to get the ink flowing again.

As stated in written review, the ink once dried-on takes ammonia [rather an ammonia/ water solution] to clean this ink off the nib.

I'll add to that I've found just rinsing under running water actually sets the ink onto the metal nib, just as does my use/ experiences of India Ink or shellacs when exposed to running water causes them to set instead of rinsing off.

This does not present any real-world problem for me, for two reasons, seeing that a quart of clear ammonia is very inexpensive and only takes a 10:1 solution of water:ammonia to get the pen fully clean again, and if kept in use or properly capped the ink has not dried out on the nib.

While the advertising says to only use the enclosed pens to avoid clogging I didn't have the luxury seeing I got only a 1/8oz sample bottle to try and no pens.

I will say I agree with that statement, to use those pens if you have them, or be forewarned that this ink can definitely cause a clogged pen if certain actions are not taken to prevent or remedy this as I've described above.

I would NOT recommend anyone leaving the cap off of any pen filled with this ink, seeing that it dries fast and built up a film on my nib that doesn't rinse off with just running water, it's entirely possible it may harden even more if left to dry although I've not yet tested this theory.

I did try using a standard dip pen & steel nib, found this ink does indeed build up on the nib top and when left exposed to air that film became hard, similar to shellac, so be forewarned!

Regardless of the possibility of clogging I'm finding this ink to write and behave extremely well from the Lamy-Vista so far.

I'd have no real concerns using it in other fountain pens either, to a degree, just as long as they can be nearly fully disassembled for a full cleaning using the 10:1 water:ammonia solution described previously.

I'm not likely to use Kung te-Cheng in my Pelikans, for example, seeing as the Pelikan nibs are assemblies that cannot be readily taken apart, so this ink could possibly harden if left to dry after getting into the feed slots, inside the collars, in the feed fins and underneath the nibs, so it could be nearly impossible to clean it out if left to fully dry and harden.

 

PERMANENCE:

I've often read where some have questioned the use or need for permanent or bulletproof inks, yet the inks I use now are mostly just that.

I live in a very humid location, where my hands often get sweaty and paper even wrinkles badly from the massively high water content in the air.

I've had dried non-permanent inks smear on paper when touched, just from the dampness in the air being absorbed into the paper, or even worse from sweat on the sides of my hands touching some non-waterproof inks, so water-resistance to full-blown permanence [or bulletproof] for me is a must in more ways than just longevity or the occasional accidental liquid spill.

I also have many inks that aren't the least bit water-resistant, mostly because I like the colors or other characteristics, but come summertime when temps reach higher than body temperature and humidity averages 60%+ [and often hits nearly 100% humidity] it's the Noodler's bulletproof or waterproof inks I use most often.

Having said that, this Noodler's Kung te-Cheng would be an ideal ink for me to use anytime of the year, especially during the rough tropical summers I see all too often here, and that's a good enough reason for me to like this ink even more.

 

FINAL THOUGHTS/ OBSERVATIONS:

From a historical aspect where it's claimed to have been formulated from ink remnants found on ancient ink stones, to its unique qualities such as permanence and more, overall I'm finding this ink to be pretty amazing stuff, .

Noodler's Kung te-Cheng is perhaps the fastest drying ink I have used to-date as well, taking only 3 seconds to dry to the touch I was rather amazed, being I'm right-handed I feel that a left-handed writer would likely find it to be ideal to avoid smudging.

While not identical to Noodler's Bay State Blue or Noodler's Manjiro Nakahama Whaleman's Sepia in aroma [as those too have a very strong smell], it has a hefty odor that a few out there may find offensive; thus I've only mentioned it so others would know it's there before buying since it's not openly advertised as such.

While the chemical smell may be very off-putting to some, not knowing what causes it I'm still feeling confident there's a reason for it and it doesn't really bother me, nor does the odor of BSB or MNWS bother me enough to keep me from using and liking them.

I'm very offended [nay-sickened] by some women out there that douse themselves with seemingly gallons of perfume, have walked down the aisles of a grocery store or passing them through a doorway for example and nearly vomit from the stench when they pass by, making me wonder what awful smells they're trying to overpower with such a heavy dousing and knowing I'm inhaling those semi-camouflaged stenches as well, so in comparison these ink aromas are actually pleasant to me by contrast!

The color isn't as intense as many other inks I have, and I like this quality too, since sometimes having an ink that's less presumptuous is the perfect ink for a given task.

Despite any warnings I've inserted into my addendum I would still buy and use this ink again and again, it has a certain charm that's unlike any other ink I've ever used.

Noodler's Kung te-Cheng certainly has its usefulness, when certain precautions are taken, so while not for everyone I'd still recommend Noodler's Kung te-Cheng to those that love using unique inks!

 

 

P.S.:

Adding a few more pics showing Kt-C on different paper types, alongside some BayStateBlue too for comparison.

 

First, some Day-Timer paper that I'd found is by far the absolute WORST paper for fountain pens, but beside some bleed-through even that nasty paper worked OK with this ink...

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/DayTimerBSBKTC02.jpg

 

Next, using some RHODIA letter-sized bloc paper to test for feathering and more, having heard so many people say their BSB in particular feathers terribly on all paper types they've tried. For some reason my BSB rarely ever feathers or if it does it's barely seen. Another comparison between BSB and Kt-C to show how they both work on this paper type and what they look like next to each other and some here have been wondering...

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/BSBKTC_Feathering.jpg

Edited April 15, 2011 by Inka

[ThirdeYe]

Good review, but I cannot see the picture. When I used it in my Jotter FP, it clogged up after only a few days and stained the nib. It took a good amount of scrubbing to get the nib cleaned, but the converter cleaned out pretty easily just using a dilute ammonia solution like you mentioned. I'm planning on using it in a wetter writer to see if it'll help with the clogging I experienced. The Jotter I used is normally a very dry writer, so it may not have been the fault of the ink.

[Inka]

Good review, but I cannot see the picture. When I used it in my Jotter FP, it clogged up after only a few days and stained the nib. It took a good amount of scrubbing to get the nib cleaned, but the converter cleaned out pretty easily just using a dilute ammonia solution like you mentioned. I'm planning on using it in a wetter writer to see if it'll help with the clogging I experienced. The Jotter I used is normally a very dry writer, so it may not have been the fault of the ink.

I'm sorry, ThirdeYe, I've never had that happen with my pictures before, attempting to fix it now.

Until I go back and try editing the issue in my post with the picture being missing, I'll try posting it again in my reply to you here...

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/NoodlersKungTeChengReview.jpg

Edited April 15, 2011 by Inka

[PJohnP]

A very thorough review on Noodler's Kung Te-Cheng (K-T-C), sir !

 

I've wondered how close K-T-C is to Bay State Blue (BSB) and Manjiro Nakahama Whaleman's Sepia (MNWS) in terms of composition. MNWS dries darned quickly, too. I haven't had much luck with BSB in terms of the feathering effects, but maybe I've used the wrong paper. There's a similarity of sorts in the odour for each of the three, IMO.

 

K-T-C is now working a treat for me diluted about 25% with distilled water. The odour's still there, to be sure, but it's running more smoothly through the pen with almost no "false starts" or flicking of the pen needed to get it on paper. The distinctive colour to K-T-C makes it a fun one to use.

 

It will come off of paper to some fair degree with ammonia (or Windex), although I've not tried hot ammonia ! That may well exceed necessary testing requirements, even for the exacting readers of FPN... :roflmho:

 

All in all, it's definitely one of Nathan Tardif's more interesting concoctions added to the ink world, I'd say.

 

 

 

 

John P.

[greencobra]

I'd like the idea of an ink line based on colors used by old cultures found on textiles and pottery shards. Aztec, Mayan, and Native American are a few that come to mind quickly. But I would expect the colors to be more vibrant than this one. It's hardly the Royal purple we know from the monarchy of the UK. I was going to buy this ink solely for the name alone but maybe not now after seeing the sample.

[Inka]

@ PJP:

 

Agreed that MJWS dries a bit too quickly in it's natural state, with the Kt-C drying even faster.

I tried the Lamy Vista just last night that still has Kt-C in it and still no clogging problems at all.

I may try a small amount of this ink mixed with some distilled water, give that a try and see what happens, if I can overcome my inner-most feelings.

It seems almost sacrilegious to even think about changing an original ink formula by adding water, like watering down an aged single-malt Scotch or a good wine [although I don't drink alcohol].

My mind has told me repeatedly that someone out there has done extensive R&D to make these inks, such as Nathan T., if he or others felt more water was necessary to achieve the best formulation I've always felt it would have already been in there.

Seems it may be time to change my mind and give dilution a try.

 

When I'd first tried BSB it was on Staples sugarcane bagasse paper, and it did feather rather badly.

Next I tried it on some old Georgia-Pacific inkjet paper and while it feathered less it still feathered more than several other inks.

It wasn't until I got the Kt-C and began paper trials that I'd found BSB was far better behaved on certain paper types.

Oddly enough the Kt-C performs very nicely on the sugarcane paper, almost no feathering even with the 1.5mm Italic nib of the Lamy variety.

Paper type does indeed make a huge difference when it comes to many inks, some don't like to dry on Rhodia too for example, the list goes on.

 

Having a 2-dram bottle with each of these inks I've noticed something interesting, the more fills the less feathering, as if allowing the ink/s to air out actually helps.

This leads me to wonder and ponder, why an aired-out ink feathers less, just as it does when adding pure water reduces feathering too.

Maybe, just maybe, there's some out-gassing going on from the full-strength inks that feather, so adding water and/ or airing the out reduces the fuming?

It does seem somewhat feasible that when a liquid with a heavy vapor hits paper the vapors could potentially cause the liquids/ dyes to spread outward with the fumes.

As much as I've heard about people diluting their inks to good success I've yet to do so with anything other than semi-dehydrated carts or old dipper-inkwells that get dry.

Seems it's time I let go of my initial feelings of diluting inks being sacrilege, give a small sample of Kt-C some pure water and give it a try, would certainly yield more ink too.

[Inka]

I'd like the idea of an ink line based on colors used by old cultures found on textiles and pottery shards. Aztec, Mayan, and Native American are a few that come to mind quickly. But I would expect the colors to be more vibrant than this one. It's hardly the Royal purple we know from the monarchy of the UK. I was going to buy this ink solely for the name alone but maybe not now after seeing the sample.

 

[Just adding that I'm with you, on the old culture idea!]...

I'm still using this ink in my Lamy-Vista, still no clogging.

I've just last night discovered that paper type also changes the color see[n] when using Noodler's Kung te-Cheng ink.

I pulled out some Staples sugarcane paper, began writing on it, sure enough the color looks like a royal purple or the "Emperors' Purple"!

I've not done a scan of this phenomena, yet, I'll go do some more writing and come back soon with a scan sample so you can see what I'm seeing.

This makes me wonder what ancient paper was made from, seeing sugarcane brings out the purple, so maybe rice paper or similar were used during R&D?

I'll be back ASAP, hopefully with a spot-on new scan that shows this ink can produce a nice purple, on some paper types at least.

Edited April 17, 2011 by Inka

[Inka]

Scan done of sugarcane paper use, as promised, with Noodler's Kung te-Cheng ink...

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/KtConSugarcaneBagasse.jpg

 

Paper does play a major role in how many inks look, or behaves, I'm seeing a lot more purple here and tossed in some bright blue BSB [written on same sheet of sugarcane waste paper] just to show it's not due to my scan being off.

Edited April 17, 2011 by Inka

[ThirdeYe]

Your last scan looks more like the KTC I saw when I used it, more purple-ish. I tried it on both Staples Sustainable Earth and regular lined notebook paper.

[greencobra]

Yes, that paper gives it the more "rich" look that I expected, appreciate you doing a second scan of it.

[Inka]

@ greencobra:

You're welcome, my pleasure to be of service.

 

BTW, interesting User name there greencobra. I had a CB handle [nickname] of Blue Cobra back in the days when CB clubs and CBs were everywhere. I'm not even sure now how I came up with the name, had it for years though and people knew me by that handle, just happened to recall it when I saw your "handle".

[RayOski1]

I have a recipe for making this ink more cheaply.

 

One part Dragon Napalm, one part Contract Blue (Art Brown)

[dcpritch]

I just put Noodler's KTC in my Pelikan M800, with an OBB nib, and man do I like it. Great color, super flow, quick dry. On Rhodia paper there is a little show through - the smallest amount - even with that wet writing OBB nib. I really like the quick drying characteristics compared to Noodler's American Eel Blue, which is still wet a few minutes later; and I really like the ink color - I'm hoping there are no problems cleaning it up after, but it sure is nice now! DAVID

[carpedavid]

KTC is one of my favorite "blue" inks - so much so that I've made it one of the reference inks that I evaluate others against. Good review of it, Inka!

[sidewinderwcc]

Great review!

 

I received a sample of KTC in a Ink drop, and fell in love with it. I just loaded it in my new TWSBI, and it is amazing. I love the way it dries almost chalky, which is something I never thought that I would say. When I received my bottle, the information sheet included stated that only 140 something bottles where made, and the chances of another batch was slim to none. Looks like I am ordering a few more before they run out.

[RobbW]

I didn't know KtC was possibly limited. Good thing I picked up 2 big bottles.

[sidewinderwcc]

Just wanted to add to my previous comment about KTC in my TWSBI. When I received KTC, I filled the Preppy eyedropper and used it for a little while before leaving for a conference. Six hours later I returned, and could not get the Preppy to start no matter what I tried. It finally took wiping with a damp paper towel for it to start up again. This was perplexing to me, seeing as the cap had been on and I had not let it sit uncapped for any amount of time.

 

So to say I was hesitant about putting it in my TWSBI would be an understatement. But, after two days, I have had zero issues. It always starts right up, with no skipping at all. Im using this ink to write my novel, and sometimes while im thinking, it can be minutes before I write again, and I have had zero issues with start up.

 

I am loving everything about this ink, and would love to use it in a few other pens such as my Delta piston which is my usual "go to" pen. Does anyone else have KTC in pens other than the Preppy with no issues? I, for one, and im sure others, would love to hear what pens are being used with this amazing ink.

[Alieanor]

There are only two inks on my wish list. This is one. Thanks for a great review.

[bluemagister]

This ink really does need a good dilution of about 25% to work at its optimum. But, wow, is it ever bulletproof! All you'd need to do is paint this on your car and you could run through a hailstorm of ball bearings and come out with no scratches.

[Inka]

UPDATE:

I still have my Lamy Vista loaded with Noodler's Kung te-Cheng, it's still going strong since April 13th and it's already May 23rd as I type this [just after midnight here].

Here it is over a month later since filling the pen with this ink, and the pen still writes every time, although I do on the rare occasion have to gently wipe the nib slot with a mildly dampened paper towel to get the ink to flow and tamp the nib tip on same just to make sure it's flowing.

For the most part, though, I do have a routine: I uncap the Vista, test the flow on a scrap of paper or 3x5 card set aside for this purpose [not just for this pen & ink but some others as well], and it usually flows right from the start, sometimes a short line or two written [meaning an 1/8th"-1/4" inch = 3mm-6mm dash-line, not a line of text] is all it takes to get it flowing if it needs even that much.

I've been storing the pen nib-up, sideways in a notebook pen loop laying on my coffee table, even tried storing in capped & nib-down as a test, I've found the way it's stored doesn't seem to matter at all as once I pull off the cap I can write with the pen at least 90%+ of the time without even having to give it a gentle wipe.

Pretty amazing ink, I love the color more and more each time I use it, drying time is so fast I've not once had a smudge when my finger swipes across a written area inadvertently even on somewhat slick paper like Rhodia that's notoriously slow to dry using some inks, I've written full length letters and use it exclusively for addressing labels and envelopes now without taping over them knowing full well it will survive a torrential downpour without washing away!