Review - Vintage - Waterman Blue Black

[corniche]

Greetings all,

 

Here is a review for VINTAGE Waterman Blue-Black. My results are not as I expected. Let me say, that I have a 16 OUNCE bottle, (for some reason, I had always thought it was a quart), in a YELLOW box with a side by side two-tone black and blue label reading:

 

Permanent (in small red letters)

Blue Black (in white script)

Waterman’s (in white block letters)

Ink (in white block letters)

16 Ounces – No. 116 (in small red letters)

 

The bottle is glass with a matching label with a clear plastic flow restrictor cap over the crown of the bottle; cap is black plastic.

 

I mention all this because my results were odd; unlike Ernst Bitterman’s review; my ink looks paler, in a great many ways it reminds me of the current production WMbb. As you can see on my test sheets; there does not seem to be a discernable difference between the two inks. Color-wise, they are quite similar, with the NEW version appearing a touch darker; however, it should be noted that my blue Pelikan M-200 is a wetter writer than my Cross Century, which may explain the slightly darker variation, (and this only occured on certain papers; on others, they were identical).

 

This ink is NOT waterproof like Ernst Bitterman’s sample was either; while the box and bottle are clearly labeled "Permanent," I think their "Permanent" refers to permanence on fabric and skin; like Quink’s Permanent colors. For a brief moment, I wondered if someone had maybe refilled this bottle with the new formula; however, that doesn’t make sense either.

 

Here is why:

 

1. The flow restrictor cap is well encrusted from a little previous use with no signs of tampering; when I tried to remove it- it held like iron.

 

2. I paid around $20 for this bottle about 5 years ago. If someone had refilled it, they would have lost their shirt reselling it at that price, (Eight 2 oz. bottles @ $8.50 per bottle, {2005 price}).

 

 

However, I believe I have the same ink in BOTH bottles, here is why:

 

1. Very similar color and performance.

 

2. Same smell- no hint of Phenol or other heavy duty preservatives in either bottle.

 

3. When you hold the bottles up to both natural and artificial light; tip them back and forth, the color is identical- even the flow back rates are the same- no variation at all.

 

 

MY CONCLUSIONS:

 

Be VERY careful when buying vintage WMbb inks; I think the formula changed while they were still using the yellow box with the two-tone black and blue label and I received an old style bottle with the new formula. I looked on the box and bottle and cannot find a date anywhere. I am going to re-scan these documents in a day or so to see if the color changes on my “old” version- that will be the clincher.

 

 

CATEGORICAL REVIEW, (somewhat abridged):

 

Flow: 5.0 Excellent flow; was able to keep up with a quick hand with no skips or phantom lines; did equally well with slow printing and punctuation tasks.

 

Lubrication: 4.0 Seemed a bit dry at first; however, it seemed to “loosen up” with use; I’m thinking it is because I loaded it in a pen that had been ultrasonically cleaned and the nib was pristine- once the ink had some time/use to lubricate the nib, lubrication qualities improved.

 

Bleed-Through: 5.0 None detected on any paper including budget copy paper and scratch pad paper. Very little shadow either. (If the term “shadow” confuses you; it is my term for “show-through,” I think “shadow” sounds much nicer).

 

Shading: 3.5 - 4.0 There is moderate shading quality to this ink; much like the current formula.

 

Saturation: 4.0 Somewhat muted tones yet retaining dark, clear lines throughout all writing exercises.

 

 

Final Assessments:

 

My version of "vintage" WMbb has no distinguishable characteristics that differentiate it from the "new" formula. So, my final assessment is almost the same as above- I think Waterman changed the formula while they were still using the yellow packaging and I received one of the later specimens. Be VERY careful- since the packaging didn’t change but the formula apparently did; I’m not sure if there is any clear way to tell unless you have it in front of you in person. I know there is a clear difference in the packaging that Ernst Bitterman’s specimen is in; however, I have also seen the yellow packaging with the two-tone label produce ink samples that match Ernst’s.

 

Ominous results so far to say the least; however, further testing is required before I can say without a shadow of a doubt that this ink is identical to the new formula; although at this point, it certainly looks that way. First, I want to see if this "vintage" formula takes on that tealish hue as it oxidizes. Second, I want to try it on even more different papers with more swab tests as well. So far though, they seem to be the same.

 

All the best,

 

Sean but still

 

Review:

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff449/quinkkid/WMbbvintage.jpg

 

Box for the "Vintage" 16 oz. Bottle, (to illustrate label art):

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff449/quinkkid/WMbbold1.jpg

 

Staples Scratch Pad Paper:

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff449/quinkkid/WMbbsidebyside2.jpg

Edited January 18, 2011 by S. P. Colfer

[bdgdl08]

I can see the difference, but I do like both of the colors. I can definitely see why people prefer the older version. I think I actually prefer the shading in the new, which is very good to know. Thank you very much for your review!

[corniche]

Greetings all,

 

GOOD NEWS! My vintage WMbb HAS NOT shifted color; whereas my current formula samples have all changed to varying degrees of teal.

 

So, I have found that my vintage WMbb is not as bad as I initially feared. While it looks identical to the current formula, (or very close to it), when it is fresh; my vintage WMbb DOES NOT change color like the new stuff does.

 

So I've come to the conclusion that Waterman has changed their blue-black formula several times through the years. First, there was the dark blue version, (like Ernst Bittermans)- which also smells of Phenol; then the paler version that mimics the new formula in initial color but doesn't change and does not smell of Phenol, (like my vintage formula), and then the current formula that changes to a tealish color. Perhaps somewhere out there, there is a specimen of the paler version that DOES smell of Phenol??? The possibilities are endless when it comes to WMbb!

 

All the best,

 

Sean

[Tweel]

You almost have to wonder whether Waterman was buying blue-black ink in bulk on the market, or encouraging their employees to mix it in their own bathtubs and bring it in to work.

 

I may have that "somewhere" version. I bought a Nalgene bottle of what is supposed to be 1940's Waterman's B-B, and have no reason to doubt the seller. It dries teal and has a strong smell which might be of phenol (although it reminds me of tempera or watercolor paint).

 

-- Brian

[ThirdeYe]

It might just be my monitor, but those scans look a lot like my Quink Blue-Black, before it shifts to teal. Looks like some good stuff. I like it.

[corniche]

You almost have to wonder whether Waterman was buying blue-black ink in bulk on the market, or encouraging their employees to mix it in their own bathtubs and bring it in to work.

-- Brian

 

:ltcapd: :ltcapd: :ltcapd:

 

- Sean

[corniche]

I may have that "somewhere" version. I bought a Nalgene bottle of what is supposed to be 1940's Waterman's B-B, and have no reason to doubt the seller. It dries teal and has a strong smell which might be of phenol (although it reminds me of tempera or watercolor paint).

 

-- Brian

 

Hello Brian,

 

That is quite strange indeed.

 

I've noticed some Noodler's inks smell like finger paint; I think that is the smell you are referring to, (I can't remember the smell of tempera anymore, but I think it is the same or close to finger paint). I can assure you that it isn't Phenol you smell- that has a sharp chemical smell- if you have a good nose, you can detect a trace of it in Cloraseptic Throat Spray. (The Phenol is also what gives Cloraseptic that oh so special aftertaste).

 

Actually, I think that finger paint/tempera paint smell you are referring to is a NON-TOXIC mold inhibiter that has been used in children's paints for years, but lately is finding its way into inks and other things.

 

You've really piqued my curiosity; any chance of "swapping samples," a couple of drams of mine, for a couple of drams of yours?

 

All the best,

 

Sean

[corniche]

It might just be my monitor, but those scans look a lot like my Quink Blue-Black, before it shifts to teal. Looks like some good stuff. I like it.

 

Hello Derek,

 

It is a little paler than Qbb, but it is in the same family. (PM sent)

 

All the best,

 

Sean

[ex-bugonaut]

I'm bumping this interesting thread just to note that my 50 ml bottle of Waterman BB, which is real vintage (at least ten years old , and more likely double that), which says "made in France" on the bottom of the bottle, has only a slight "inky" smell to it and shows absolutely no change in color on the page after 3 days.