Dilution - Noodler's Baystate Blue

[Sandy1]

WELCOME

 

These samples document my results from diluting Noodler's Baystate Blue with water. I have chosen to present them the basic terms of the Ink Review performance profile, without addressing use, aesthetics and so on, you know - the interesting stuff. So - no Grey Scale, or dissertations on bottle cap liners!

WRITTEN LINES

 

These replace the ubiquitous but flaky swatches, which cannot reliably depict ink density, (light - dark), etc., etc., etc.

 

To juxtapose the four samples, two sets are shown.

Paper: HPJ1124

 

Figure 1.

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Noodlers%20Baystate%20Blue%20-%20Dilution/fc455661.jpg

Row 1. 100% (stock)

Row 2. 80%

Row 3. 66%

Row 4. 40%

 

Figure 2.

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Noodlers%20Baystate%20Blue%20-%20Dilution/043e7b3a.jpg

 

Row 1. 66%

Row 2. 100%

Row 3. 40%

Row 4. 80%

 

WRITTEN SAMPLES

 

Figure 3.

HPJ1124

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Noodlers%20Baystate%20Blue%20-%20Dilution/f846fde5.jpg

 

Figure 4.

Rhodia

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Noodlers%20Baystate%20Blue%20-%20Dilution/c377a9fd.jpg

 

 

OTHER STUFF

 

I decided to group the Smear/Dry Time tests with the Wet Tests for each dilution, rather than sorting by test type.

Increment for S/DT mark-making is five seconds.

Figure 5.

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Noodlers%20Baystate%20Blue%20-%20Dilution/4a36fc3d.jpg

 

Left Side

: HPJ1124

Right Side

: Rhodia

 

OBSERVATIONS

 

Physical Performance & Characteristics

 

Flow Rate:

• OK for all dilutions.

Nib Dry-out:

• OK for all dilutions.
• Diminishes as dilution increases.

Start-up:

• OK for all dilutions.

Lubrication:

• OK for all dilutions.
• Diminishes as dilution increases.
  • The Written Samples for 100, 80 & 66% were OK.
  • The 40% Sample was barely tolerable, so use of textured papers and/or narrow nibs may be unpleasant.

Bleed Through:

• Yes.
  • 100% on the Rhodia!!?!

Show Through:

• Yes.
  • 100% on the Rhodia!!?!

Feathering / Woolly Line:

• Yes.
  • Deceases as dilution increases.
  • 66% is sort of OK.
  • 40% has cleared-up this obvious defect.

Smear/Dry Time:

• The hard-surfaced Rhodia showed shorter S/D times than the HPJ1124. (?!?)
• The S/D time increased as dilution increased - which is contrary to widely-held opinion / common wisdom / rule of I'm-all-thumbs.

Water Resistance:

• -4- or greater on the S4 Scale:
  • "All legible, can be easily read and/or have light staining from re-deposit of soluble ink.
  • Use as-is for work papers & internal use.
  • Adjustments to a scanner may drop-out the stain."

  [*]Much lower on the Rhodia than the HPJ1124.[*]Increases slightly as dilution increases.

Clean Up:

• Reasonable.
• Temporary staining of work surfaces and vessels is often reported.
• Adequate HazMat precautions, including personal protection kit, and use of restoration / recovery / cleaning products should avoid permanent staining.
• I am disinclined to use this ink in (vintage, BHR) pens which may include components made from materials which may not withstand normal-to-aggressive domestic cleaning products.
  

Personal Observations:

• Noodler's Baystate Blue is a tour de force in bringing vibrant dyestuff to FP ink. I previously described the visual impact as being the only Blue that is a screaming red-orange at its core; and a red-orange in mufti.
• I feel that dilution can be used to maintain The Look of NBBl on overly absorbent papers and/or from writers which are too wet and may 'submerge' the ink.
• As I am highly aware of inks' line quality, I have very often shunned this ink as being a terrible performer.
  
• Dilution is a means to diminish feathering without destroying The Look.

As always, YYMV considerably, not only from materials, etc. that the practitioner chooses, but also inconsistencies in the stuff in the bottle.

 

☛ Please take note: Ink does not require labeling to indicate (changes in) formulation, ingredients, batches, date of production, etc. The accuracy of this and other Reviews, samples, etc. is dependent upon consistency and reliability of associated products and methods.

 

[oOo]_[OoO]_[oOo]

 

MATERIEL

 

Pen:

Rosetta Magellan + g-p steel Schmidt B nib.

(This supersedes the previously favoured Pelikan M200 with a g-p BB nib from richardpens. While I like that rig, I think it is not as well suited to this sort of thing.)

Papers:

HPJ1124 - A 24lb. Laser Copy paper.

Rhodia - A fairly common upper tier paper that is FP friendly.

- 30 -

Edited January 9, 2011 by Sandy1

[Lloyd]

Many of your negatives (bleed through and smearing) can be eliminated by using in an XF nib. I have BSB living in a Pilot Elite XF.

[reprieve]

Many of your negatives (bleed through and smearing) can be eliminated by using in an XF nib. I have BSB living in a Pilot Elite XF.

 

But Baystate Blue looks so good in a broad nib!

 

I do dilute Baystate Blue slightly to avoid uncontrollable feathering on cheap paper. I can't tell any difference in color or waterproof-ness, but its behavior is infinitely improved.

[fjf]

How much do you dilute?. Is the 2/3 + 1/3 water a good recipe in you experience too?.

 

Many of your negatives (bleed through and smearing) can be eliminated by using in an XF nib. I have BSB living in a Pilot Elite XF.

 

But Baystate Blue looks so good in a broad nib!

 

I do dilute Baystate Blue slightly to avoid uncontrollable feathering on cheap paper. I can't tell any difference in color or waterproof-ness, but its behavior is infinitely improved.

Edited January 9, 2011 by fjf

[Sandy1]

Many of your negatives (bleed through and smearing) can be eliminated by using in an XF nib. I have BSB living in a Pilot Elite XF.

 

But Baystate Blue looks so good in a broad nib!

 

I do dilute Baystate Blue slightly to avoid uncontrollable feathering on cheap paper. I can't tell any difference in color or waterproof-ness, but its behavior is infinitely improved.

 

Hi,

 

Ah, how much is 'slightly'?

 

From what I could see, the 66% solution seemed a good place to start; but would you suggest 80 - 90%?

 

Bye,

S1

[Sandy1]

Many of your negatives (bleed through and smearing) can be eliminated by using in an XF nib. I have BSB living in a Pilot Elite XF.

Hi,

 

I don't prefer very narrow nibs for most of my writing. (Reminds me too much of posting entries in my cheque-book.) And I don't like to be hemmed-in by inks' performance profile. OK - changing papers and wetness of writers is a norm for me. I would find working with a predicated nib-width because of an ink's performance profile to be just goofy.

 

Bye,

S1

[reprieve]

How much do you dilute?. Is the 2/3 + 1/3 water a good recipe in you experience too?.

 

Hi,

 

Ah, how much is 'slightly'?

 

From what I could see, the 66% solution seemed a good place to start; but would you suggest 80 - 90%?

 

Bye,

S1

 

I don't measure precisely. Eyeballing it, I would say about 80% ink to 20% water. That's what works for me.

Edited January 10, 2011 by reprieve

[wikionion]

WELCOME

 

These samples document my results from diluting Noodler's Baystate Blue with water. I have chosen to present them the basic terms of the Ink Review performance profile, without addressing use, aesthetics and so on, you know - the interesting stuff. So - no Grey Scale, or dissertations on bottle cap liners!

WRITTEN LINES

 

These replace the ubiquitous but flaky swatches, which cannot reliably depict ink density, (light - dark), etc., etc., etc.

 

To juxtapose the four samples, two sets are shown.

Paper: HPJ1124

 

Figure 1.

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Noodlers%20Baystate%20Blue%20-%20Dilution/fc455661.jpg

Row 1. 100% (stock)

Row 2. 80%

Row 3. 66%

Row 4. 40%

 

Figure 2.

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Noodlers%20Baystate%20Blue%20-%20Dilution/043e7b3a.jpg

 

Row 1. 66%

Row 2. 100%

Row 3. 40%

Row 4. 80%

 

WRITTEN SAMPLES

 

Figure 3.

HPJ1124

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Noodlers%20Baystate%20Blue%20-%20Dilution/f846fde5.jpg

 

Figure 4.

Rhodia

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Noodlers%20Baystate%20Blue%20-%20Dilution/c377a9fd.jpg

 

 

OTHER STUFF

 

I decided to group the Smear/Dry Time tests with the Wet Tests for each dilution, rather than sorting by test type.

Increment for S/DT mark-making is five seconds.

Figure 5.

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Noodlers%20Baystate%20Blue%20-%20Dilution/4a36fc3d.jpg

 

Left Side: HPJ1124

Right Side: Rhodia

 

OBSERVATIONS

 

Physical Performance & Characteristics

 

Flow Rate:

• OK for all dilutions.

Nib Dry-out:

• OK for all dilutions.
• Diminishes as dilution increases.

Start-up:

• OK for all dilutions.

Lubrication:

• OK for all dilutions.
• Diminishes as dilution increases.
• The Written Samples for 100, 80 & 66% were OK.
• The 40% Sample was barely tolerable, so use of textured papers and/or narrow nibs may be unpleasant.

Bleed Through:

• Yes.
• 100% on the Rhodia!!?!

Show Through:

• Yes.
• 100% on the Rhodia!!?!

Feathering / Woolly Line:

• Yes.
• Deceases as dilution increases.
• 66% is sort of OK.
• 40% has cleared-up this obvious defect.

Smear/Dry Time:

• The hard-surfaced Rhodia showed shorter S/D times than the HPJ1124. (?!?)
• The S/D time increased as dilution increased - which is contrary to widely-held opinion / common wisdom / rule of I'm-all-thumbs.

Water Resistance:

• -4- or greater on the S4 Scale:
  • "All legible, can be easily read and/or have light staining from re-deposit of soluble ink.
  • Use as-is for work papers & internal use.
  • Adjustments to a scanner may drop-out the stain."
• Much lower on the Rhodia than the HPJ1124.
• Increases slightly as dilution increases.

Clean Up:

• Reasonable.
• Temporary staining of work surfaces and vessels is often reported.
• Adequate HazMat precautions, including personal protection kit, and use of restoration / recovery / cleaning products should avoid permanent staining.
• I am disinclined to use this ink in (vintage, BHR) pens which may include components made from materials which may not withstand normal-to-aggressive domestic cleaning products.

Personal Observations:

• Noodler's Baystate Blue is a tour de force in bringing vibrant dyestuff to FP ink. I previously described the visual impact as being the only Blue that is a screaming red-orange at its core; and a red-orange in mufti.
• I feel that dilution can be used to maintain The Look of NBBl on overly absorbent papers and/or from writers which are too wet and may 'submerge' the ink.
• As I am highly aware of inks' line quality, I have very often shunned this ink as being a terrible performer.
• Dilution is a means to diminish feathering without destroying The Look.

As always, YYMV considerably, not only from materials, etc. that the practitioner chooses, but also inconsistencies in the stuff in the bottle.

 

☛ Please take note: Ink does not require labeling to indicate (changes in) formulation, ingredients, batches, date of production, etc. The accuracy of this and other Reviews, samples, etc. is dependent upon consistency and reliability of associated products and methods.

 

[oOo]_[OoO]_[oOo]

 

MATERIEL

 

Pen:

Rosetta Magellan + g-p steel Schmidt B nib.

(This supersedes the previously favoured Pelikan M200 with a g-p BB nib from richardpens. While I like that rig, I think it is not as well suited to this sort of thing.)

Papers:

HPJ1124 - A 24lb. Laser Copy paper.

Rhodia - A fairly common upper tier paper that is FP friendly.

- 30 -

 

Can you dilute it a lot (like down to 10%) and tell us how it goes?

[tmenyc]

20prcnt dilution has always been right for me with Esterbrook 2556 or 2668 nibs. It does not dilute tts staining ability,happy to say. Loved the OP's use of the Hazmat term...

Tim

[Shanazon]

Sorry to resurrect a zombie thread, but I've found that I can use it at 100% without a problem if i retard the feed from the tines a bit. The end of my feed ends up being about 2-2.5mm back from where I'd have it for other inks and I find that this alleviates the bleed and feathering that is present with the feed in the default position.

[torstar]

Great work!!

 

I tried this for awhile and then not.

 

BSB also had to have changed the ink over the years, more user friendly, right?

[Chmara]

Thank you -- now if I could only trust my monitors to give me the true colors of lines, swatches, swabs or any other ink sample.

[Sandy1]

Sorry to resurrect a zombie thread, but I've found that I can use it at 100% without a problem if i retard the feed from the tines a bit. The end of my feed ends up being about 2-2.5mm back from where I'd have it for other inks and I find that this alleviates the bleed and feathering that is present with the feed in the default position.

 

Hi,

 

Many thanks!

 

My approach is to tune the ink to the pen.

 

My adventures with tuning inexpensive nibs to a Noodler's Ahab made it clear that I an a mere tine teaser, and that setting-up nib-to-feed is a work in progress. (As are my fluffy dumplings.)

 

Bye,

S1

Edited February 3, 2018 by Sandy1

[Sandy1]

Great work!!

 

I tried this for awhile and then not.

 

BSB also had to have changed the ink over the years, more user friendly, right?

 

Hi,

 

As ever, Ink Co.s modify their products for one reason or another; and those changes are not always disclosed. It is not always the 'small batch artisanal' inks, but even the behemoth Lamy switched their Blue-Black from iron-gall to aniline dye imposter without notice - the product ID was the same. (Bah!)

 

To me, this is one reason that even 'zombie' posts are relevant to track change in a product over time. (I've posted some 138 ink reviews, and wonder how many are still relevant due to changes in the ink itself.)

 

Bye,

S1

[Sandy1]

Thank you -- now if I could only trust my monitors to give me the true colors of lines, swatches, swabs or any other ink sample.

 

Hi,

 

Here's a good discussion : https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/269421-do-you-care-if-scans-are-color-adjusted/?p=3039055

 

Believe me, with all the various viewing devices (phones, tablets, laptops, desktops) it makes it very tricky.

 

I found that depicting the Chrome (sizzle) of NBsBl is impossible. (See discussions of 'International Klein Blue'.

 

I work in a very simple way : producing the jpg image in a consistent manner. Hence the results are as close as I can get; they are relative, not absolute.

 

Bye,

S1

Edited February 3, 2018 by Sandy1

[torstar]

 

Hi,

 

As ever, Ink Co.s modify their products for one reason or another; and those changes are not always disclosed. It is not always the 'small batch artisanal' inks, but even the behemoth Lamy switched their Blue-Black from iron-gall to aniline dye imposter without notice - the product ID was the same. (Bah!)

 

To me, this is one reason that even 'zombie' posts are relevant to track change in a product over time. (I've posted some 138 ink reviews, and wonder how many are still relevant due to changes in the ink itself.)

 

Bye,

S1

 

Thanks Sandy,

 

With BSB bottles bought years apart it was easy to discern a change for the better in the ink.

[scunepo]

"To me, this is one reason that even 'zombie' posts are relevant to track change in a product over time."

 

Makes good sense, Sandy1.