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Sailor Sapporo Broad Vs Music Nib


calhoun tubbs

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Hi everyone!

I'm considering purchasing a Sailor Sapporo with either a broad nib or a music nib, but I can't decide which one to get. Does anyone have a comparison, or experience with either nib? I like medium nibs, and from what I've found the broad Sapporo nib produces a line comparable to the average western medium nib. However, I do have a Pilot Prera with a Plumix nib that I like very much for its line variation. How would the Sapporo Music nib compare? If anyone has a side by side comparison, it would be ideal.

 

Thanks.

"No one can be a great thinker who does not recognize that as a thinker it is his first duty to follow his intellect to whatever conclusions it may lead. Truth gains more even by the errors of one who, with due study, and preparation, thinks for himself, than by the true opinions of those who only hold them because they do not suffer themselves to think." -J.S. Mill, On Liberty

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Hi,

 

I have a Sailor MS nib fitted on the 1911.

 

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/Pen_Scans/PEN445.jpg

 

I like the nib a lot, but it can be a little 'tippy' because it is so wide, >1.1mm in my estimation. Not any appreciable flex. I personally think of it as a Sumo Stub. It is not a Music Nib as I understand them, so I just call it an MS nib.

 

The feed can usually keep the nib well supplied with ink, but if I really have a head of steam up, the line density can fade a bit as I work.

 

The upstroke ↑ can be flaky, so caution in that direction.

 

This pen & nib appeared in the Scabiosa Ink Review My link, and the Salix Ink Review My link

 

The sample immediately below includes an Asian mono-line Medium nib (AM), the MS nib, and the Sheaffer No Nonsense mono-line M nib.

 

 

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/InkyThoughts2010/0ef19d26.jpg

 

This is from a Pelikan 1.0mm Stub created from an M200-series g-p steel BB nib by richardpens, (OoooLaLa):

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/InkyThoughts2010/MusicNibs/FPN404.jpg

This is from the Platinum MS nib, on a 3776 frame:

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/InkyThoughts2010/MusicNibs/FPN403.jpg

 

And from the Pilot MS:

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/InkyThoughts2010/MusicNibs/FPN401.jpg

 

Bye,

S1

Edited by Sandy1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

 

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Wow! Thank you so much Sandy1. You really went all out! The Music nib really leaves a thick line. Gorgeous pen by the way. I'll post back after I take a better look at all the information and images you've so generously provided :)

"No one can be a great thinker who does not recognize that as a thinker it is his first duty to follow his intellect to whatever conclusions it may lead. Truth gains more even by the errors of one who, with due study, and preparation, thinks for himself, than by the true opinions of those who only hold them because they do not suffer themselves to think." -J.S. Mill, On Liberty

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I have Salor 1911M with music nib purchased from nibs.com with ink flow and writing pressure adjusted to my preference.

It gives a nice variation in line thickness.

I use mostly for writing piano practice line for my daughter and for signature etc.

Edited by Sunburst
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Wow! Thank you so much Sandy1. You really went all out! The Music nib really leaves a thick line. Gorgeous pen by the way. I'll post back after I take a better look at all the information and images you've so generously provided :)

Hi,

 

You're welcome.

 

I neglected to mention that these MS nibs run best with an ink with a good flow, in combination with a smooth surface paper.

 

'Sunburst' had mentioned using them for writing music.

However, I found that if one is at a piano, or using a music stand, etc., the writing surface is too steep to get the FP's capillary action working - right handed over-writer? Hmm. So I went to a 'fude' nib that is far less fussy about the alignment of the nib to the writing surface. It took a while to get my head around a 'nib-less' pen, but...

 

Oh, when/if you post back, please send me a PM, so I can join.

 

Bye,

S1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

 

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I have experience with the Sailor Music nib but not with the standard Sailor broad. However, as a practical matter, I think you can expect the line width of the Music nib to be nearly twice the width of the Sailor broad and to offer significantly more line width variation. (John Mottishaw's web site indicates the Music nib measures 1.15mm in width compared with 0.6mm for the broad nib.)

 

Like all Sailor nibs I have experienced, I find the Music nib to be an exceptionally smooth writer. I tend to use cursive italic nibs for much of my writing, so I don't personally have a problem with the inherent "tippy" characteristics of the nib that were noted above (and that are unavoidable with wide stub and italic nibs).

 

The only difficulty I have personally encountered with the Sailor Music nib relates to starting problems. With cursive/connected writing, there is no problem, but for writing styles that involve the frequent need to lift the nib from the paper, I find that my nib often wants to skip briefly before the ink starts flowing again. With my nib, this problem can be eliminated if the pen is positioned at a steep angle to the page (as is often required for a formal italic nib). I don't have perspective on whether these starting issues are unique to my nib or whether they are more pervasive.

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I have experience with the Sailor Music nib but not with the standard Sailor broad. However, as a practical matter, I think you can expect the line width of the Music nib to be nearly twice the width of the Sailor broad and to offer significantly more line width variation. (John Mottishaw's web site indicates the Music nib measures 1.15mm in width compared with 0.6mm for the broad nib.)

 

Like all Sailor nibs I have experienced, I find the Music nib to be an exceptionally smooth writer. I tend to use cursive italic nibs for much of my writing, so I don't personally have a problem with the inherent "tippy" characteristics of the nib that were noted above (and that are unavoidable with wide stub and italic nibs).

 

The only difficulty I have personally encountered with the Sailor Music nib relates to starting problems. With cursive/connected writing, there is no problem, but for writing styles that involve the frequent need to lift the nib from the paper, I find that my nib often wants to skip briefly before the ink starts flowing again. With my nib, this problem can be eliminated if the pen is positioned at a steep angle to the page (as is often required for a formal italic nib). I don't have perspective on whether these starting issues are unique to my nib or whether they are more pervasive.

 

Thank you for replying. I don't recall where I read it ,but you're right that the MS nib is about twice is wide as the broad nib. How do you like the line variation?

 

So then, it is true that one has to use a grip that results in the pen being held at nearly a 90 degree angle. Correct?

"No one can be a great thinker who does not recognize that as a thinker it is his first duty to follow his intellect to whatever conclusions it may lead. Truth gains more even by the errors of one who, with due study, and preparation, thinks for himself, than by the true opinions of those who only hold them because they do not suffer themselves to think." -J.S. Mill, On Liberty

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Wow! Thank you so much Sandy1. You really went all out! The Music nib really leaves a thick line. Gorgeous pen by the way. I'll post back after I take a better look at all the information and images you've so generously provided :)

Hi,

 

You're welcome.

 

I neglected to mention that these MS nibs run best with an ink with a good flow, in combination with a smooth surface paper.

 

'Sunburst' had mentioned using them for writing music.

However, I found that if one is at a piano, or using a music stand, etc., the writing surface is too steep to get the FP's capillary action working - right handed over-writer? Hmm. So I went to a 'fude' nib that is far less fussy about the alignment of the nib to the writing surface. It took a while to get my head around a 'nib-less' pen, but...

 

Oh, when/if you post back, please send me a PM, so I can join.

 

Bye,

S1

 

Can you tell me a little more about the "fude" nib?

"No one can be a great thinker who does not recognize that as a thinker it is his first duty to follow his intellect to whatever conclusions it may lead. Truth gains more even by the errors of one who, with due study, and preparation, thinks for himself, than by the true opinions of those who only hold them because they do not suffer themselves to think." -J.S. Mill, On Liberty

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I have experience with the Sailor Music nib but not with the standard Sailor broad.

 

... I tend to use cursive italic nibs for much of my writing, so I don't personally have a problem with the inherent "tippy" characteristics of the nib that were noted above (and that are unavoidable with wide stub and italic nibs).

 

The only difficulty I have personally encountered with the Sailor Music nib relates to starting problems. With cursive/connected writing, there is no problem, but for writing styles that involve the frequent need to lift the nib from the paper, I find that my nib often wants to skip briefly before the ink starts flowing again. With my nib, this problem can be eliminated if the pen is positioned at a steep angle to the page (as is often required for a formal italic nib). I don't have perspective on whether these starting issues are unique to my nib or whether they are more pervasive.

Hi,

 

A definite +1 on the 'tippy' thing. I have noticed that on the wider non-mono-line nibs - not only the Sailor MS. I think that was a very important point (mini-pun).

 

As for start-up, I find the Asian pens / nibs in general (oh oh) behave very well when held at a steeper angle (60o) than I prefer. Certainly the MS nibs from other marques share that propensity. For the 1911, I want to grip on the threads, but I need to hold it much more towards the nib. For the Ink Reviews mentioned previously, the pen did well even with those very dry/dusty i-g inks, which tend to dry on the nib tip so very quickly. Even though the pen had trouble on the G Lalo, that was totally expected. (Test to destruction.)

 

Also, if one's last stroke was a long upward, the nib tip may have been stripped of ink, hence appearing to have a start-up problem. That is tragically apparent from the Platinum MS nib in the R-side grid where the down and upstrokes alternate - the performance on the upstrokes is well nigh unacceptable.

 

Bye,

S1

Edited by Sandy1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

 

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I have both. If I forget to post samples from both, will someone remind me? I'm not at home and the pens are.

deirdre.net

"Heck we fed a thousand dollar pen to a chicken because we could." -- FarmBoy, about Pen Posse

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I have experience with the Sailor Music nib but not with the standard Sailor broad.

 

... I tend to use cursive italic nibs for much of my writing, so I don't personally have a problem with the inherent "tippy" characteristics of the nib that were noted above (and that are unavoidable with wide stub and italic nibs).

 

The only difficulty I have personally encountered with the Sailor Music nib relates to starting problems. With cursive/connected writing, there is no problem, but for writing styles that involve the frequent need to lift the nib from the paper, I find that my nib often wants to skip briefly before the ink starts flowing again. With my nib, this problem can be eliminated if the pen is positioned at a steep angle to the page (as is often required for a formal italic nib). I don't have perspective on whether these starting issues are unique to my nib or whether they are more pervasive.

I wonder if the upright hold is designed to facilitate the traditional Asian writing style where the brush is held at an 80-90° angle to the paper. My Sapporo F and 1911 F do not function any better held so upright but I haven't tried a Sailor broad or MS nib for comparison.

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Thank you for replying. I don't recall where I read it ,but you're right that the MS nib is about twice is wide as the broad nib. How do you like the line variation?

 

The line variation is quite good, and I should note that my comments are somewhat tempered in that I have been spoiled by custom cursive italic and formal italic nibs, which I tend to use for my everyday writing. The Sailor Music nib is essentially a very wide stub, which is to say that the edges are not as crisp and the line width variation is not as dramatic as you would experience with a cursive or formal italic nib.

 

I should be clear that I am not trying to level a criticism against the stock Sailor nib, as I know many of you prefer a stub to any italic profile. My intent is simply to observe that the Sailor Music nib is more in keeping with a stub than an italic nib. Truth be told, I am considering having my Sailor Music nib ground to an italic profile to better suit my own preferences (anathema to some here, I am sure). (And, don't worry, I would have John Mottishaw do the work to ensure the best possible results.)

 

 

So then, it is true that one has to use a grip that results in the pen being held at nearly a 90 degree angle. Correct?

 

I think Sandy1 "hit the nail on the head" when she suggested a 60 degree or greater angle. It might feel unnatural as if you are approaching 90 degrees, but you don't really need to go all the way to 90 degrees in order to get the ink flowing.

 

 

Hi,A definite +1 on the 'tippy' thing. I have noticed that on the wider non-mono-line nibs - not only the Sailor MS. I think that was a very important point (mini-pun).As for start-up, I find the Asian pens / nibs in general (oh oh) behave very well when held at a steeper angle (60o) than I prefer. Certainly the MS nibs from other marques share that propensity. For the 1911, I want to grip on the threads, but I need to hold it much more towards the nib. For the Ink Reviews mentioned previously, the pen did well even with those very dry/dusty i-g inks, which tend to dry on the nib tip so very quickly. Even though the pen had trouble on the G Lalo, that was totally expected. (Test to destruction.) Also, if one's last stroke was a long upward, the nib tip may have been stripped of ink, hence appearing to have a start-up problem. That is tragically apparent from the Platinum MS nib in the R-side grid where the down and upstrokes alternate - the performance on the upstrokes is well nigh unacceptable.Bye,S1

 

I accept what you are saying about long up-strokes potentially causing greater problems due to the nib having been stripped of ink. I don't have my Music nib inked presently, so all I can do for now is to reply from memory.

 

I recall that I had recurring problems with cursive italic (unconnected) writing even after having finished forming a letter on the downstroke and then lifting the pen from the paper to start the ink flowing again with the formation of a new letter. What I mean by this is that I had ink flow starting problems even after having finished a short downstroke and immediately attempting to start the ink flowing again with a new downstroke.

 

As I mentioned in my original post, these starting problems can be overcome with my pen/nib as long as I am conscentious to hold the pen at a fairly steep angle to the page when attempting to get the ink flowing after having lifted the pen from the page. And, as Sandy1 observed, the starting problem clearly has nothing to do with the ink drying in the nib. With my pen/nib, this steep angle is simply what is required in order to start the capillary action working once again.

 

 

I wonder if the upright hold is designed to facilitate the traditional Asian writing style where the brush is held at an 80-90° angle to the paper. My Sapporo F and 1911 F do not function any better held so upright but I haven't tried a Sailor broad or MS nib for comparison.

 

I have to admit that I don't know much about the Asian writing style, so I can't comment on this except to say that this sounds like a plausible explanation for the nib design from my perspective.

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Wow! Thank you so much Sandy1. You really went all out! The Music nib really leaves a thick line. Gorgeous pen by the way. I'll post back after I take a better look at all the information and images you've so generously provided :)

Hi,

 

You're welcome.

 

... So I went to a 'fude' nib that is far less fussy about the alignment of the nib to the writing surface. It took a while to get my head around a 'nib-less' pen, but...

 

Oh, when/if you post back, please send me a PM, so I can join.

 

Bye,

S1

 

Can you tell me a little more about the "fude" nib?

 

Hi,

 

The 'Fude' nib is an Asian calligraphy nib. It appears as a severely bent nib with no tipping. One writes upon whatever portion of the nib that is 'bent' from the heel to the tip, plus the inverted tip - for a quite narrow line.

 

Below I have demonstrated (poorly) the fude nib in Burgundy ink, an Arabic-Hebrew nib in Green ink, and the Platinum 3776 + MS nib in Blue ink. The fude is shown in two orientations: 'Trad' - where the pen is oriented normally with the barrel of the pen perpendicular to the L-R direction of travel; and 90o where the pen is oriented parallel to the direction of travel, so the nib is mostly being 'pulled'; which keeps the ink rate of flow nice & high.

 

I suppose the biggest thing is that when one is annotating / composing on the fly, all it takes is a 'readable/meaningful' squiggle that aids memory - not a finely drawn (calligraphy) score.

(But that would make a fantastic gift! And just think of the inks that could be used! Rainbow Music. :happyberet:)

 

For a 'proof of concept' for the fude nib, one might try inexpensive ones from Jetpens My link 1 My link 2

 

I used a Pilot with an F-2 nib with major happy Maki-e - beyond cute!

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/INK931.jpg

Edited by Sandy1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

 

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Hi,

 

Here's a link to a Sailor with the F2 nib. My link

 

The F-2 nib can be seen, as well as a sample of written text.

 

Bye,

S1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

 

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The sailor music nib provides pretty nice line variation, shades well and writes quite smoothly. That said, it's a stiffer nib, so if you like springier nibs, it might not be as satisfying to write with it. You definitely get better results with wet inks in my opinion.

 

I haven't tried a B nib, but given my experience with the F nib, I imagine it's exceptionally smooth.

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The sailor music nib provides pretty nice line variation, shades well and writes quite smoothly. That said, it's a stiffer nib, so if you like springier nibs, it might not be as satisfying to write with it. You definitely get better results with wet inks in my opinion.

 

I haven't tried a B nib, but given my experience with the F nib, I imagine it's exceptionally smooth.

 

It's good to hear that Sailor's nibs are known for being quite smooth. I was worried about the Sailor MS nib's variation after reading some of the other posts here on FPN.

 

 

Sandy1, thank you for explaining the fude nib. The pictures also help quite a bit. It seems very interesting. I'll be sure to include one of those cheaper "fude" nibbed pens with my next JetPens order.

"No one can be a great thinker who does not recognize that as a thinker it is his first duty to follow his intellect to whatever conclusions it may lead. Truth gains more even by the errors of one who, with due study, and preparation, thinks for himself, than by the true opinions of those who only hold them because they do not suffer themselves to think." -J.S. Mill, On Liberty

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Sigh.

 

As it happens: I have four pens from Sailor: a Sapporo with an HM nib, a Sapporo mini with a B nib, and two Auroras with Zoom nibs. The Auroras were a mix of Zoom and Music nibs, and I thought I still had one Music and one Zoom.

 

Sorry, folks!

deirdre.net

"Heck we fed a thousand dollar pen to a chicken because we could." -- FarmBoy, about Pen Posse

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Sigh.

 

As it happens: I have four pens from Sailor: a Sapporo with an HM nib, a Sapporo mini with a B nib, and two Auroras with Zoom nibs. The Auroras were a mix of Zoom and Music nibs, and I thought I still had one Music and one Zoom.

 

Sorry, folks!

Oh Dierdre, you're such a tease!

:happyberet:

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

In case anybody comes across this thread with the same question in mind, I found an old thread on here where someone has compared the Sailor bold nib and music nib It isn't exact because the bold nib was stubbed, nevertheless it is still a good comparison. Here's the link:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/14099-sailor-music-nib-opinions/

 

I'll likely get the Sapporo with the Music nib.

 

Thank you all for your replies.

"No one can be a great thinker who does not recognize that as a thinker it is his first duty to follow his intellect to whatever conclusions it may lead. Truth gains more even by the errors of one who, with due study, and preparation, thinks for himself, than by the true opinions of those who only hold them because they do not suffer themselves to think." -J.S. Mill, On Liberty

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