Rescued from a defunct Montblanc boutique

[jar]

Am I out of line at being surprised upon taking receipt of this $2500 beautiful set of pens that they all had dried Noodler's Luxury Blue (not what I would consider the most innocuous of inks) dried and visible in nib & chamber? I showed the results of a dunk & swirl of just two pens in this post.

 

I'm not saying this will ruin the pens once I clean them, but I'm asking because it's not a condition I would have ever thought of delivering a quality pen in. Maybe there are varying standards, but this seemed disrespectful of the quality of the package.

 

Yeah, I think you're a little out of line. I can see being annoyed enough to drop the seller an email, but that's about it.

 

OK, I asked because I was not sure. So most people would not be bothered by the arrival of dried ink in a set of nice pens, after dropping $2,500 ?

 

They were demonstrators.

[Dace]

Am I out of line at being surprised upon taking receipt of this $2500 beautiful set of pens that they all had dried Noodler's Luxury Blue (not what I would consider the most innocuous of inks) dried and visible in nib & chamber? I showed the results of a dunk & swirl of just two pens in this post.

 

I'm not saying this will ruin the pens once I clean them, but I'm asking because it's not a condition I would have ever thought of delivering a quality pen in. Maybe there are varying standards, but this seemed disrespectful of the quality of the package.

 

Yeah, I think you're a little out of line. I can see being annoyed enough to drop the seller an email, but that's about it.

 

OK, I asked because I was not sure. So most people would not be bothered by the arrival of dried ink in a set of nice pens, after dropping $2,500 ?

 

The pens were used by possibly hundreds of people. They are true demonstrators in that a store used them to allow customers to try out nibs to determine which nib choice they liked best.

[Blade Runner]

Even though they're demonstrators, if you're selling a pen, it's common courtesy to clean them.

[jar]

Even though they're demonstrators, if you're selling a pen, it's common courtesy to clean them.

 

 

Sure. And I agree that the seller not cleaning them fully might be worthy of a complaint, but that's about it. Send an email to the seller.

[Blade Runner]

Perhaps Sam's pointing this out will help other sellers avoid this issue, which could potentially damage a pen if enough ink is left to dry inside.

[razr]

Even though they're demonstrators, if you're selling a pen, it's common courtesy to clean them.

 

 

Sure. And I agree that the seller not cleaning them fully might be worthy of a complaint, but that's about it. Send an email to the seller.

 

I agree. I'm not sure that embarassing the seller in an "open post" was the best route. Also, I thought most buyers here on FPN do (i.e. clean and rinish the purchased pen prior to loading their favorite ink).

Edited April 29, 2010 by razr

[Blade Runner]

Even though they're demonstrators, if you're selling a pen, it's common courtesy to clean them.

 

 

Sure. And I agree that the seller not cleaning them fully might be worthy of a complaint, but that's about it. Send an email to the seller.

 

I agree. I'm not sure that embarassing the seller in an "open post" was the best route.

 

I like to hear the good, the bad, and the ugly as long as it's the truth.

[SamCapote]

Even though they're demonstrators, if you're selling a pen, it's common courtesy to clean them.

 

 

Sure. And I agree that the seller not cleaning them fully might be worthy of a complaint, but that's about it. Send an email to the seller.

 

I agree. I'm not sure that embarassing the seller in an "open post" was the best route.

 

I like to hear the good, the bad, and the ugly as long as it's the truth.

 

Couple of clarifications. I spoke with Jeff by phone, and e-mail, and he was totally wonderful to deal with. I even had a chance to speak to his child who loves to talk on the phone (to anyone), and it was his birthday and was adorable. I don't regret making the purchase. I'm not asking for a refund, but I think there are some useful lessons in this instance. I'm willing to consider it is a case of forgetfullness, but it had a first impression on me that other sellers may wish to consider before sending an expensive pen. My posting about this is more about the event than the person who did it.

 

I participate on other forums that have Classified/Selling sections, and like EBay, Amazon, etc., it is a standard practice to give truthful feedback (positive & negative) both so other potential buyers are aware in specific cases, but also to build a culture of what works and doesn't.

 

I did not easily drop $2,500 in this economy. I think that amount entitles a person to a certain expectation, that may not apply with a cheap, $15.00 pen.

 

My concern was mainly the harm of leaving dried ink both on the nib and in the chamber with a 146 piston filling system.

 

Most importantly, in the description of the pens in his OP here, this is the what I was expecting when I bought (unlike others assuming these were heavily used as demonstrators):

These pens came from a Montblanc boutique that closed recently. When they came to me, each was completely pristine – no signs of use, no shop wear, no ink under nibs, no ink stains in the ink windows. I can’t say they are mint, but they are as close as you are going to get.

 

In response to inquires, he made a post here, providing writing samples using Noodler's Luxury Blue, which is the same color of the water upon nib dipping, and with piston flushing. My bottle of Luxury Blue always has a whitish sediment on the bottom which upon shaking, goes back into suspension. That is why this ink (vs. a MB, Waterman, or other without dye sediments) in particular caused me a concern being left to dry in quality pens for any reason.

 

I do appreciate the feedback on both sides, and hopefully this can be seen constructively, rather than destructively. There was no easy way to talk or ask about this situation.

[Guest kraz]

Even though they're demonstrators, if you're selling a pen, it's common courtesy to clean them.

 

 

Sure. And I agree that the seller not cleaning them fully might be worthy of a complaint, but that's about it. Send an email to the seller.

 

I agree. I'm not sure that embarassing the seller in an "open post" was the best route.

 

I like to hear the good, the bad, and the ugly as long as it's the truth.

 

Couple of clarifications. I spoke with Jeff by phone, and e-mail, and he was totally wonderful to deal with. I even had a chance to speak to his child who loves to talk on the phone (to anyone), and it was his birthday and was adorable. I don't regret making the purchase. I'm not asking for a refund, but I think there are some useful lessons in this instance. I'm willing to consider it is a case of forgetfullness, but it had a first impression on me that other sellers may wish to consider before sending an expensive pen. My posting about this is more about the event than the person who did it.

 

I participate on other forums that have Classified/Selling sections, and like EBay, Amazon, etc., it is a standard practice to give truthful feedback (positive & negative) both so other potential buyers are aware in specific cases, but also to build a culture of what works and doesn't.

 

I did not easily drop $2,500 in this economy. I think that amount entitles a person to a certain expectation, that may not apply with a cheap, $15.00 pen.

 

My concern was mainly the harm of leaving dried ink both on the nib and in the chamber with a 146 piston filling system.

 

Most importantly, in the description of the pens in his OP here, this is the what I was expecting when I bought (unlike others assuming these were heavily used as demonstrators):

These pens came from a Montblanc boutique that closed recently. When they came to me, each was completely pristine – no signs of use, no shop wear, no ink under nibs, no ink stains in the ink windows. I can’t say they are mint, but they are as close as you are going to get.

 

In response to inquires, he made a post here, providing writing samples using Noodler's Luxury Blue, which is the same color of the water upon nib dipping, and with piston flushing. My bottle of Luxury Blue always has a whitish sediment on the bottom which upon shaking, goes back into suspension. That is why this ink (vs. a MB, Waterman, or other without dye sediments) in particular caused me a concern being left to dry in quality pens for any reason.

 

I do appreciate the feedback on both sides, and hopefully this can be seen constructively, rather than destructively. There was no easy way to talk or ask about this situation.

[Guest kraz]

Hello all,

 

Please allow the offending party to respond.

 

First of all, the buyer was a pleasure to deal with and I'm glad he ended up with a beautiful set.

 

I dipped the set a few weeks ago -- maybe 6 weeks ago -- to provide the writing samples. I agree with the buyer and others on the board that it would have been courteous of me to flush them out. (By the way, I did not fill the chambers.) It slipped my mind as I was packing them (although I did polish them up nicely).

 

But I must remind everyone that these are...wait for it...PENS! And pens are made to be filled with...INK! And the whole suggestion that leaving high-quality ink residue on the nib and feed for a few weeks somehow damages the pens is ridiculous. Moreover, the whole point of having a set of testers is to use the different nibs and appreciate their different writing qualities. As far as "white residue" found on the bottom of bottles Noodler's Luxury Blue, I think whoever is worried about that should flush the pens out once with cold water and forget about it.

 

Now, if you had purchased a 1929 Waterman Patrician, mint with the price sticker, and you were concerned that dipping the pen would leave a stain on the brick-red hard rubber feed, which is visible through the breather hole of the nib and should show up red if the pen were truly mint, you might have an issue.

 

Bottom line, I stand corrected in terms of not taking time to perform a common courtesy before shipping the pens.

 

Thanks for listening. "Sam," thanks for your purchase. You will be the envy of any modern Montblanc collector who sees your set of testers.

 

Now, if anyone would like to speak with me about my newly acquired set of testers -- Bohemes with the same range of nibs from EF to OBB -- I'm all ears. Photos are below.

 

 

Jeff Krasner

kraz@verizon.net

 

 

 

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g213/freekraz/Montblanc/boheme2.jpg

 

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g213/freekraz/Montblanc/bohemeOBB.jpg

[SamCapote]

Jeff, thanks for your kind reply, and understanding I was doing my best to be constructive. Indeed, I wanted to share my human reaction, and ask both about expected protocol and asking about letting a "sedimentary" ink dry in a pen's nib and feed. I spent about 2 hours yesterday flushing/filling at least 15-20 times, and after sitting in water overnight, another 2 hours today flushing and filling each pen another 10-15 times before the dried ink is finally coming out clean. I'm not exaggerating, and only now do I feel like I can start using and enjoying them, but my arthritic fingers are sore, so I'll look at them tomorrow. I suspect a brief flush/cleaning after you did the writing samples would have mitigated this work on my part.

 

Those Bohemes are nice looking. Amazing the stuff that "fell into your lap."

[Guest kraz]

Thanks for your reply.

 

Here's my tip for cleaning pens -- whether they have been used recently or have been sitting in a drawer for 50 years:

 

Koh-I-Noor Rapido-Eze Pen Cleaner. Part #3068-7 (one quart size).

 

I buy it at art supply stores where they sell technical pens. Sometimes they have to special order it. Should be easy to find on the web these days.

 

I dilute it 1:1 with tap water. It will clean out anything from a pen. I mean anything. Great for flushing. Great for the inside of caps. And while it takes longer, I prefer it to an ultrasonic cleaner for really old, caked-on stuff.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Jeff

[SamCapote]

Thanks for your reply.

 

Here's my tip for cleaning pens -- whether they have been used recently or have been sitting in a drawer for 50 years:

 

Koh-I-Noor Rapido-Eze Pen Cleaner. Part #3068-7 (one quart size).

 

I buy it at art supply stores where they sell technical pens. Sometimes they have to special order it. Should be easy to find on the web these days.

 

I dilute it 1:1 with tap water. It will clean out anything from a pen. I mean anything. Great for flushing. Great for the inside of caps. And while it takes longer, I prefer it to an ultrasonic cleaner for really old, caked-on stuff.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Jeff

 

Now that's a superb tip. I had never heard of the stuff before.

 

Here is a link for others at Art Blicks. Also google found this earlier post about it here at FPN. Just bought some. Thank you sir!

[Wael El-Dasher]

Technical pens typically require periodic deep cleaning as the thin wire that draws the line through the tube tip will clog up.

 

I would be careful about using cleaning products meant for technical pens as the filling system is different the internal materials are different. Technical pens use stainless steel. If the cleaner will also degrease, this may cause a problem for piston seal against the barrel wall.

 

I don't have any definitive proof, but my guess is if this was a useful product for piston pens, it would have been marketed by the pen manufacturer. Why would a pen manufacturer not make additional products to supplement their inks?

 

I would say one may use such a product on an as needed basis only, and not routine. Cases such as discovering an old MB that's been neglected for many years and left filled with ink that's long dried up, then certainly such a product would be helpful for that. However to routinely use it for monthly or quarterly flushing and cleaning, is probably not a good recommendation.

 

cheers

 

Wael

[SamCapote]

Technical pens typically require periodic deep cleaning as the thin wire that draws the line through the tube tip will clog up.

 

I would be careful about using cleaning products meant for technical pens as the filling system is different the internal materials are different. Technical pens use stainless steel. If the cleaner will also degrease, this may cause a problem for piston seal against the barrel wall.

 

I don't have any definitive proof, but my guess is if this was a useful product for piston pens, it would have been marketed by the pen manufacturer. Why would a pen manufacturer not make additional products to supplement their inks?

 

I would say one may use such a product on an as needed basis only, and not routine. Cases such as discovering an old MB that's been neglected for many years and left filled with ink that's long dried up, then certainly such a product would be helpful for that. However to routinely use it for monthly or quarterly flushing and cleaning, is probably not a good recommendation.

 

cheers

 

Wael

 

Sounds like sensible advice. Do any of the experienced users that may have used Koh-I-Noor Rapido-Eze Pen Cleaner that Jeff suggested have use guidelines beyond Jeff's dilluting it 1:1? Do you draw it up once, let it work for a period, eject then rinse with distilled/filtered water, or use it for repeated flushing like I was doing earlier until it runs clear, and then a couple of flushing to rinse out the Koh? It is interesting that I have not seen this mentioned anywhere before, but maybe it is a closely guarded nib-meister's secret?

 

Edit: Just out of curiosity, and because I have an order for a Nakaya Urushu pen ordered, I asked Nibs.com about it. While not speaking to John directly, two people in their office seemed "somewhat" familiar with it, but didn't describe it as a "Silver Bullet" type of magic cleaner. They steered me more towards using 1/2 cup ammonia in clean cool water for 20 mins, and using that on the feed section. They also warned not to use hot water or alcohol which can damage the feed.

[SamCapote]

I started a thread about it here.