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What are "Relief" and "Falcon" nibs?


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10 replies to this topic

#1 Rique

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Posted 09 April 2006 - 23:10

I´ve just bought a J Estie with a 2442 nib, which Richards' site says is a "Falcon fine stub". What is that?? Also, the site this nib is for "backhand writing"... (anything to do with the way you hold your racket in tennis?!)
I´ve been considering also another J, with a 2314-M, which Richard says is a "Relief medium stub". What is the difference between a Relief and a Falcon stub?

best regards,
Rique

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#2 Rique

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Posted 15 April 2006 - 02:46

No guesses? :(

#3 Gerry

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Posted 15 April 2006 - 03:50

Sorry Rique, for some reason your initial post didn't seem to appear as a new post for me - just saw this thread today, although events since April 9th have been a little foggy for me for some reason... <_<

Anyway, my listing also shows the nib as a Jackson Stub,and backhand writing as well. Best guess I can give for the backhand writing is for a left handed overwriter. It may also refer to a style where the letters typically slant backwards to the left as opposed to normal writing where the letters slant to the right. As a stub, it is a nib that gives a broader vertical than the horizontal.

A sample can be seen on Brian's site - http://www.esterbroo...rnp2.shtml#2442

Relief pens, and probably nibs were manufactured in England: http://www.esterbrook.net/relief.shtml although the 2314 - F I have is USA. It is shaped differently, with shorter tines, and broader soulders than regular Esterbrook nibs. Unfortunately my Esterbrook pen book has gone AWOL, and I can't look it up for you. Perhaps Brian or Antonios can chime in here...

Regards,

Gerry

#4 antoniosz

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Posted 15 April 2006 - 04:30

Relief nibs are left-foot oblique (about 15 degrees) stubs.
I do not have a 2442 but my guess is that is a straight stub.
All Durachrome (untipped) and Master Series nibs derived from the earlier dip nibs.

Hoban's book lists among the commercial style gold plated stubs:

- 312 "Judge's": Flexible fine stub (long nib). It evolved to italic Master Series 9312
- 313 "Probate": Flexible medium stub (there is no "descendent" among the renew points)
- 314 "Relief": Flexible medium stub for scial correspondence and manuscript writing. It evolved into the scarse 1314 Durachrome flexible stub, and the 2314-F,M,B and 9314-F,M,B (which are not flexible)
- 239 "Chancellor" Firm small stub - Esterbrook claims that this is the perfect for backhand writing (backhand is when the letters have a left slant). No descendents among the renew points
- 442 "Jackson Stub" Firm medium stub in falcon shape (Esterbrook claimed that it was the most popular stub. Apparently 2442 is the corresponding renew point. Falcon shape refers to this style
Posted Image

AZ

#5 Gerry

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Posted 15 April 2006 - 05:52

By golly Antonios, that made me get out the loupe, and there it is - the 2442 I have does appear to have a left footed oblique cut to it, as does the Relief.

The Falcon outline - not depression as on the dip pen nib is the same as the dip pen - ie a line with an Omega shape to it...
Here's a couple of pictures...

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  • SSA50168_2.jpg


#6 Gerry

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Posted 15 April 2006 - 05:54

And the profile... Falcon at the top, Relief below. Note the shoulder on the Falcon near the threads...

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  • Relief_and_falcon_side.jpg


#7 antoniosz

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Posted 15 April 2006 - 14:27

By golly Antonios, that made me get out the loupe, and there it is - the 2442 I have does appear to have a left footed oblique cut to it, as does the Relief.

The Falcon outline - not depression as on the dip pen nib is the same as the dip pen - ie a line with an Omega shape to it...
Here's a couple of pictures...

Cool! I had noticed this "shape" in some early 2048 renew points, and just made the connection after your posting :). SO I went back to Hoban's book to find that the 048 (a predecessor of 2048 and 9048) is also listed as a Falcon nib!


By the way, from the photo it seems that the 2442 is also oblique. Is this true?

AZ

PS> For completeness I am also listing here a link to an earlier post on the Esterbrook mammouth falcon dip nib.
BTW, what happened to Brian? He is not posting recently. Is he painting the house, riding the bike or gave up on Esties :) ?

#8 Rique

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Posted 15 April 2006 - 17:11

Thanks Gerry and Antonioz for all this information! My 2442 nib is almost exactly like the one in the photo, and is an oblique too. The only difference is that it hasn´t the "Made in USA" imprint at the foot of the nib (my pen was made in Brazil, and the nib has no imprint).
The Relief seems to be an oblique too, according to the photo. Is there a Esterbrook stub nib that is straight (that is, not oblique) ? What about 9284?

regards,
Rique

#9 antoniosz

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Posted 16 April 2006 - 01:04

The italic 9312 and the signature stub 9248 are indeed straight.

#10 Rique

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Posted 16 April 2006 - 03:14

Thanks again, Antonioz! That really clears much of the mistery of the Esterbrook's "Point Selection Charts", and clarifies details I haven´t seen explained anywhere on the web.
Now, two more nibs to add to my wish list...

regards,
Rique

#11 fenriz

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 03:08

Is it ok to revive this thread to say that I've got a 2442 Falcon nib that isn't oblique?

Actually, I've got two, and they're identical! And they've got no tipping on them whatsoever. They're just flat and sort of sharp on the end. I like the line they give. Kinda scratchy, but the cross stroke is a crisp xxf, almost like a Gillott's 604!






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