Canadian Waterman History

[Fernan]

I recently bought a Waterman Eyedropper in an Antique shop in Quebec City a few months ago. I like to think of it as being my souvenir for both the 300th and the 400th anniversary of the City of Quebec.

 

It took me three days of research and patient handling, first to figure out how it worked, and second to unskrew the feed from the barrel. During these three days, I would frequently dip the feed part in cold water. I learned from this experience that ink had probably dried up in the pen. This ink was a very light green, somewhat like the modern South Sea Blue. Finally, as I was surfing through FPN while absentmindedly playing with the pen, delicately trying to unskrew it, it finally gave away.

 

I filled it with water a number of times. Light green (or South Sea Blue) ink came out. Then, I found there was a second layer of ink underneath. A reddish-black ink.

 

The pen has two golden bands with a flowery motif, engraved with initials on both. It is Canadian made. There are two dates on it : Patented Oct 9, 1906, Feb 9, 1909.

 

The owners of the antique shop where I bought the pen are well-known in the Quebec City area. I was given to understand that the pen was part of an estate, which they bought. The family would have been from the area around Quebec City.

 

I have a number of questions about this pen. Would anybody have any knowledge of marketing channels for Waterman Canadian pens from that era. I would imagine that it would have been manufactured in Montreal. Where would it have been sold? What kind of store? Would this pen have been considered to be an expensive item in its time? The market would have been somewhat limited. Given the initials on the pen, I sometimes believe it may have been a gift.

 

My hypothesis is that the ink in this pen had dried up a long time ago. Probably half a century ago, if not more. A person using such a pen would have used it for a long period of time, until another more convenient pen, with a more convenient filling mechanism came along. When did Waterman start producing ink, and when would they have diversified their colour range?

 

I managed to thoroughly clean the pen. The nib is still tainted. Reading FPN and other related pen aficionado web sites, I understand that it would be possible to restore the hard rubber to make it shine a little more than it does (?).

 

After having cleaned it, I first inked it with Herbin Bleue nuit. Too liquid! What I think many people would qualify as a « wet noodle ». So I reverted to Waterman Blue Black. It since writes really well. The feeling of a dip pen, with the behaviour of a fountain pen -- it seems to write without end, just as if there was a bottomless fountain of ink in the pen.

 

Fernan

[SMG]

For reblackening, there are two sources which you can try. Richard Binder does reblackening using Giovanni's G-10 formula, and Syd the Wahlnut also has his Pensbury Manor #9 solution. G-10 is a more permanent change one would make to the pen, but it would come back basically looking as if the rubber was brand new.

 

I have heard good things about Pensbury Manor, but have not seen or used it at all. I have seen one pen which was done with the G-10 formula and it was rather nice.

 

If the nib needs some work, drop me a line. If it just needs polishing then I would suggest getting a jewelers cloth and buffing it slightly with that. It should take off any tarnish.

 

Do not wash the Hard Rubber in water, it will make the oxidation worse on the pen.

 

Also check the butt end of the pen for a number which is the model number, it will help identify the approximate value of the pen and possibly where it was produced.

 

Cheers,

Sean

Edited October 7, 2008 by SMG

[Johnny Appleseed]

For reblackening, there are two sources which you can try. Richard Binder does reblackening using Giovanni's G-10 formula, and Syd the Wahlnut also has his Pensbury Manor #9 solution. G-10 is a more permanent change one would make to the pen, but it would come back basically looking as if the rubber was brand new.

 

I have heard good things about Pensbury Manor, but have not seen or used it at all. I have seen one pen which was done with the G-10 formula and it was rather nice.

 

[...]

 

Also check the butt end of the pen for a number which is the model number, it will help identify the approximate value of the pen and possibly where it was produced.

 

Cheers,

Sean

 

I believe the title is 12 POC - which makes it a pretty desirable pen. I would probably guess it is worth from $75-150 depending on condition - and well over that if sold by a professional pen-seller.

 

The patent dates are not really relevant to the dating of the pen, except that we know it was made after 1909. The patent dates are for the feed, however, and I believe those were used well into the 1920s if not the 1930s. However, the POC designation (for "Pocket" - their designation of a threaded-cap eyedropper) was used up until 1917, after which it became the "72". I think the POC came out somewhere around 1906(?). Either way, between the patent date and the end of POC designation, the pen dates 1909-1917.

 

I am not sure where the Waterman Canada factory was, but the pen could have been sold through a number of venues - pen stores, stationary stores, possibly jewlers stores (more common for fancy overlays) or catalog sales (Eatons sold Waterman's pens in the 1920s at least). Waterman had a pretty extensive sales network at this point.

 

Note too that there is a lot of controversey around reblackening hard rubber, and many collectors are dead-set against it. Proceed with caution, and make an informed decision on the issue.

 

John

 

[Fernan]

Sean and John,

 

Thank you both for the information.

 

I will find the location of the Waterman factory in Canada. I believe it was in Montreal. I'll also do some research on the Jewelry stores in Québec City for that period -- I have friends who are historians who would be able to direct me to the information.

 

I don't believe the nib needs any work, just polishing. In fact, it writes really well. After using dip pens throughout the winter and spring, I'm finding it a real pleasure to use. Thanks for the suggestion to use a jeweller's cloth. I've located one within our house, and have used it. It helps. The nib looks a lot better with very little application. It's still a bit tarnished. Both bands have seen improvement after a bit of buffing.

 

The butt end of the pen does indeed, as indicated in the title POC 12.

 

 

Fernan

[HLeopold]

(snip)

 

After having cleaned it, I first inked it with Herbin Bleue nuit. Too liquid! What I think many people would qualify as a « wet noodle ». So I reverted to Waterman Blue Black. It since writes really well. The feeling of a dip pen, with the behaviour of a fountain pen -- it seems to write without end, just as if there was a bottomless fountain of ink in the pen.

 

Fernan

 

"Wet noodle" is not how wet the pen writes, it is how flexible the nib is. A wet noodle nib is extremely flexible, as opposed to semiflex or rigid.

[Ernst Bitterman]

Eatons sold Waterman's pens in the 1920s at least

 

My uncle-in-law recently found a Fall-Winter 1920-1 catalogue from Eatons-- it had been thrust between siding and lath as insulation in an old house. Waterman's #52 (not identified by the model #, but it's pretty obvious) could be had for $2.50, while the most expensive one could order was a XX2 1/2 size with a HUGE gold band that put me in mind of the Sheaffer Signature lines of the '40s and '50s which cost $10.80.

[Namo]

I recently bought a Waterman Eyedropper in an Antique shop in Quebec City a few months ago. I like to think of it as being my souvenir for both the 300th and the 400th anniversary of the City of Quebec.

 

It took me three days of research and patient handling, first to figure out how it worked, and second to unskrew the feed from the barrel. During these three days, I would frequently dip the feed part in cold water. I learned from this experience that ink had probably dried up in the pen. This ink was a very light green, somewhat like the modern South Sea Blue. Finally, as I was surfing through FPN while absentmindedly playing with the pen, delicately trying to unskrew it, it finally gave away.

 

I filled it with water a number of times. Light green (or South Sea Blue) ink came out. Then, I found there was a second layer of ink underneath. A reddish-black ink.

 

The pen has two golden bands with a flowery motif, engraved with initials on both. It is Canadian made. There are two dates on it : Patented Oct 9, 1906, Feb 9, 1909.

 

The owners of the antique shop where I bought the pen are well-known in the Quebec City area. I was given to understand that the pen was part of an estate, which they bought. The family would have been from the area around Quebec City.

 

I have a number of questions about this pen. Would anybody have any knowledge of marketing channels for Waterman Canadian pens from that era. I would imagine that it would have been manufactured in Montreal. Where would it have been sold? What kind of store? Would this pen have been considered to be an expensive item in its time? The market would have been somewhat limited. Given the initials on the pen, I sometimes believe it may have been a gift.

 

My hypothesis is that the ink in this pen had dried up a long time ago. Probably half a century ago, if not more. A person using such a pen would have used it for a long period of time, until another more convenient pen, with a more convenient filling mechanism came along. When did Waterman start producing ink, and when would they have diversified their colour range?

 

I managed to thoroughly clean the pen. The nib is still tainted. Reading FPN and other related pen aficionado web sites, I understand that it would be possible to restore the hard rubber to make it shine a little more than it does (?).

 

After having cleaned it, I first inked it with Herbin Bleue nuit. Too liquid! What I think many people would qualify as a « wet noodle ». So I reverted to Waterman Blue Black. It since writes really well. The feeling of a dip pen, with the behaviour of a fountain pen -- it seems to write without end, just as if there was a bottomless fountain of ink in the pen.

 

Fernan

 

There was a Waterman Ideal factory south of Montreal at the beginning of the 20th century, maybe in Longueil. I found this reference, wich doesn't seem accurate regarding the location, but gives an interesting date for the foundation of the factory.

 

"By 1899, Lewis Waterman opened a factory in Montreal and was offering a variety of designs." http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blwaterman.htm

 

 

[Fernan]

Lovell's Directories of the City of Montreal and its suburbs indicate that there has been a Waterman plant on the South Shore of Montreal, in Saint-Lambert, close to Victoria Bridge, as early as 1909. This plant was located at 2 Waterman Street. This building existed until at least the early 1970s, and there was still a sales office for Waterman pens at that same address in 1970.

 

The street still exists. However, from what I could survey using Google maps, the building does not seem to exist anymore (see map here). The City of Saint-Lambert in now part of Longueuil.

 

I have to thank a researcher from the Musée du Fier-Monde in Montreal, a relatively recent museum dedicated to the industrial history of Montreal, for directing me to this information. Lovell's directories of the (former) metropolis of Canada have been digitized and can be consulted on the Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec website at this url address : http://www.banq.qc.ca/portal/dt/accueil.jsp?bnq_langue=en. Direct link to Lovell's directories here : http://bibnum2.banq.qc.ca/bna/lovell/index.html.

 

 

Interestingly enough, souvenirs from my youth have surfaced as a result of doing this research.

 

I remember that, around 1955 up to 1957, my family lived about a mile away, down the railroad track, in Ville Lemoyne, as it was known at the time, for a few months until my father got to rent a family unit on the RCAF base, at Saint-Hubert, a few miles away. I have fond memories of that period as it was there that I learned to bike, to skate and play hockey as well as other sports, became part of a Boy Cubs group, and got to sit inside a Sabre jet, and much much more...

 

 

Fernan

 

 

[rhr]

Direct link to Lovell's Directories of the City of Montreal: http://bibnum2.banq.qc.ca/bna/lovell/index.html.

Fernan, thanks for posting the link to the Montreal business directory. I used it to look up all the locations of the Peel Pen Shop, otherwise known as La Maison du Stylo Peel, in this thread Peel Pen Shop.

 

George Kovalenko.

 

 

[Fernan]

Direct link to Lovell's Directories of the City of Montreal: http://bibnum2.banq.qc.ca/bna/lovell/index.html.

Fernan, thanks for posting the link to the Montreal business directory. I used it to look up all the locations of the Peel Pen Shop, otherwise known as La Maison du Stylo Peel, in this thread Peel Pen Shop.

 

George Kovalenko.

 

 

 

Most welcome! Glad to see that the reference was useful for other purposes.

 

 

Fernan

[henrico]

For us pen aficianados, this is a great loss. Events like these are always sad, like losing an old friend. All the best to the Culmer family.

 

Henrico

Edited November 2, 2008 by henrico

[UkeDan]

Lovell's Directories of the City of Montreal and its suburbs indicate that there has been a Waterman plant on the South Shore of Montreal, in Saint-Lambert, close to Victoria Bridge, as early as 1909. This plant was located at 2 Waterman Street. This building existed until at least the early 1970s, and there was still a sales office for Waterman pens at that same address in 1970.

 

The street still exists. However, from what I could survey using Google maps, the building does not seem to exist anymore (see map here). The City of Saint-Lambert in now part of Longueuil.

 

 

 

Fernan

Fernan, The Ideal logo is clearly visible on the building on Waterman Street. Go down the street on Google Maps. It's there. That's the old plant.

[ralfstc]

Hi folks,

 

There are several Waterman's locations in and around Montréal. There was a repair department and, I think, office on St. James' St (now, of course, Rue St-Jacques) as well as the factory in St-Lambert. The building on Waterman Street has now been turned into condos, so you can live in the Waterman factory if you like! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-Lambert,_Quebec)

 

Very much living history!

 

Cheers,

 

Ralf

[rhr]

...the factory in St-Lambert. The building on Waterman Street has now been turned into condos, so you can live in the Waterman factory if you like! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-Lambert,_Quebec)

 

You might also want to see the magazine article quoted in my blog post about Waterman's in Canada.

 

George Kovalenko.

 

[ralfstc]

That's brilliant George, nice one!

 

R.

[Liliane]

Today, at Toronto's Scriptus pen show, I talked to Peel Pen Shop people and they were telling me they are now the 4th generation working in fountain pen.  The first one worked in the St-Lambert plant in 1931.  The plant is now condos, and the owners are well aware of these past of the building.  They kept the name and use old waterman pen posters for decorating.  You can have a glimpse on their Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/lewatermansaintlambert