Flow Vs. Smoothness on Triumph Nibs

[El Mocho]

Since I started acquiring Triumph-nibbed Sheaffers, I've found a variety of nib "feels." Some have just had misaligned tines which I don't know how to deal with-- I don't have my loupe and nylon pliers... yet. Some have had decrepit filling systems I'll have to get serviced anyway. But the ones that have functioned have felt a little less smooth than I'm used to with modern nibs. They've not been outright scratchy, but don't have a buttery soft sensation either.

 

Several of these have also had very decent wet flow, which solves the smoothness problems. I had a 1942-or-so Triumph write this way for as long as it held ink: it felt less like I was pressing onto the page and more like I was steering a wet line, so I didn't have to worry if it was less than smooth. I have what I think is a Sovereign II (Vac-Fil, Triumph nib) that acts pretty much the same way.

 

I'd attributed this to the Triumph nibs being described as "Stiff as nails" and "rigid."

 

Then I got a desk set with a Triumph nib, which had been restored and adjusted, according to the seller. This thing is butter soft, but flows a little less wetly. It reminds me more of the Waterman Phileas or a contemporary pen.

 

So I'm wondering: What's the actual "original" character of these nibs?

 

I think I'd like them smooth AND wet, but I can't tell if mine have just led a rough lifestyle, so that accounts for what I feel is a slight roughness. I'm going to have to get the filling systems restored anyway, so I'll probably get the nibs smoothed when I do. But I'm curious about the historical perspective-- did they expect the pen to write that way? Wet, with a little tooth, but so wet it didn't matter?

 

Thanks!

 

Chris

[Robert Hughes]

Chris, I'm not a Sheaffer expert but I do have a few Triumph-nibbed pens. They all write the same, from what I can tell: smooth, with neither too much or too little flow. They are nails, no doubt. If yours are not reasonably smooth, they've probably been used as dining utensils or lawn darts.

[El Mocho]

Chris, I'm not a Sheaffer expert but I do have a few Triumph-nibbed pens. They all write the same, from what I can tell: smooth, with neither too much or too little flow. They are nails, no doubt. If yours are not reasonably smooth, they've probably been used as dining utensils or lawn darts.

 

This explains that one neighbor kid who ran around screaming with a PFM lodged in his scalp back in the 80s... not really. I once made a T-Shirt for a friend with a target on the chest that says "Legalize Lawn Darts."

 

Now to get those pens maintained...

 

Thanks for the information!

[gmberg]

So I'm wondering: What's the actual "original" character of these nibs?

 

Chris:

A 1940s Triumph should write like a smooth nail. I'll leave out the "butter". One of the advantages of the rigid Triumph conical construction is that the tines rarely get out of alignment, so that most should be smooth right off the bat without much tuning. Also, you should not get much line variation by pressing down. It takes a lot of pressure to spread Triumph tines, and if you're pressing down that hard, you're probably chisling your letter into the desk top underneath your paper! Sheaffer designed Triumphs so you can press down hard enough to make carbon copies which were coming into popular use then. And, leaving no design stone unturned, Sheaffer purposely made the very tip of the tines curve slightly upwards so when you press down to make carbons, you don't tear the top piece of paper.

Many people who like the relatively personality-free character of modern nibs and do not like the initial difficulty of writing with vintage flexible nibs, appreciate the Triumph. They are very reliable work-a-day pens, and they were designed and manufactured to very high standards. There are very few modern pens I can think of that are more docile, endurable, and reliable. On top of that, the vintage Triumphs come in beautiful celluloids, and the plunger-filler system is one of the most efficient ever devised. Of course, they do have to be properly restored!

Cheers,

Gerry Berg

[Chris]

I have several Triumph nibs - all described as medium - but one is indeed smoother than the others and one is slightly scratchy yet I cannot see any misalignment of the tines.

 

I do have a Valiant with a medium nib, almost broad, that whilst being a nail is slightly flexible and, surprise, does produce some nice line variation without me having to score the paper.

 

With Noodler's Walnut, it can give a fair impression of some pretty old-age scripts.

 

Chris

[RevAaron]

Most of the Triumph nibs I've used have a lot of feedback. Not scratchy, but with a very strong and unique feedback. Some of them have more of this feedback and others less; the texture feels the same, there's just a difference in degree. This is on pens with well aligned tines.

 

I've thought about attempting smoothing one, or having one smoothed by someone with less of a chance of screwing up. I love a Triumph nib when it feels right, but otherwise I get very frustrated. I really like having a firm, idiot proof nib like the Triumph for jotting down a note when standing up, and the feedback on a lot of the Triumph nibs I've tried drives me bonkers.

 

I have a couple of really smooth Triumph nibs, a Fine PdAg Snorkel and a M/B 14k Sheaffer Triumph (thanks Julio!) that's quite stubbish. Smoother than the rest, but they still have the characteristic Triumph feedback.

 

The biggest thing that bugs me about Triumph nibs is their point size is very inconsistent on different papers- the medium-bold stubbish Sheaffer Triumph writes nice and bold on cheap paper, and you can see the line variation in writing well; on Rhodia, the line goes to being a thin medium, with the variation being much reduce. Drives me nuts.

 

Aaron

[El Mocho]

A few more things-- from ruminating over comments above:

 

1. I don't expect there to be a lot of flex in the nib. I have heard some people describe the Lamy Safari nib as "rigid" and "nail-like" in the same way. For grins, I pulled out a fine-pointed Safari and tried it against three Triumphs I have-- all in a dip test, since the Vac-Fils need work. The safari felt smoother than both-- they each had a little tooth or scratchiness at certain angles. The Safari does too, but not as much as these. My medium-tipped Safari has no scratchiness I can perceive.

 

2. I have two open-nibbed WW2-or so Sheaffer's. One is very fine, one is a medium. The medium one is smoother, and the fine is pretty smooth, so it could just be a medium vs. fine thing and not a scratchy vs. smooth thing.

 

3. I am tempted to send my smooth desk pen along with any nibs and say "Like THIS! Make it like THIS!"

 

4. The only way I will know more is to keep increasing the size of the sample.

[RevAaron]

Your #3 is not a bad idea, actually. If you were planning on sending any other nibs to be customized, giving the nibworker a specific idea of what you want is great- as long as you are willing to deal with the result not being exactly like it.

 

The open nibbed Sheaffer's I have are generally smoother than my Trumph nibs, very glassy. Which I love! But they seem to have more angles on which to catch, which I don't love as much.

 

As far as the Safari being nail-like... Ha! Rigid, yes, but to me, (most) Triumph nibs are truly nail like- they almost never go out of alignment and don't exhibit almost any give or flex. The Safari's nib wasn't built to flex, but it does have quite a bit more give, and as such the tines seem to go out of alignment more often than on a Triumph nib. Not that it happens often, but compared to a Triumph if it happens at all it is happening more often.

[trauha]

The open nibbed Sheaffer's I have are generally smoother than my Trumph nibs, very glassy. Which I love! But they seem to have more angles on which to catch, which I don't love as much.

 

 

 

I would keep the Triumph as is, and for those times you just want to glide, get a Targa with a medium NIB. The Triumph NIB with more feedback just needs to be understood for what it is.

[georges zaslavsky]

I own four triumph nibbed sheaffers inclduing one with a slightly semi flexible nib and their nibs are extremely smooth and responsive. The feed on these model is a specific flowrite feed which will always keep the pen inked and allowing it to have a good inkflow

Edited October 18, 2014 by georges zaslavsky