OK, maybe I'm just overreacting :)

[finansista]

OK, so I won this pen for a bit less than I expected, but now the seller prepares me an invoice with an absolutely ridiculous shipping cost. What do you usually do when the seller does such thing? I don't know if I should risk the 1st Class shipping now, since the seller is no longer trustworthy in my eyes and I feel he/she might just not send the pen at all. Should I go for Priority Mail (5 times more and even more than he/she quoted, but registered)? Help!

Edited August 25, 2008 by finansista

[donwinn]

OK, so I won this pen for a bit less than I expected, but now the seller prepares me an invoice with an absolutely ridiculous shipping cost. What do you usually do when the seller does such thing? I don't know if I should risk the 1st Class shipping now, since the seller is no longer trustworthy in my eyes and I feel he/she might just not send the pen at all. Should I go for Priority Mail (5 times more and even more than he/she quoted, but registered)? Help!

 

This is a tough one; I never bid on anything until the shipping charges are clear. If the seller will not quote shipping to my location, I will not bid. If the shipping the seller is demanding is more than posted, file a complaint with eBay. If the seller wants more for trackable shipping, that is to be expected; however, if you have lost confidence in the seller, I would explain why, and cancel the purchase.

 

Donnie

[Aysedasi]

So did the seller quote you a shipping price beforehand? If they did, I would decline to pay anything more than that. The seller doesn't have a leg to stand on if you lodge a protest with Ebay. I guess it depends how badly you want the pen though.......

 

If you didn't get a shipping quote beforehand, that's a lesson learned, I'm afraid. I recently bid on a pen in the US where the shipping quote was $30. After an enquiry and explanation as to what I needed, it went down to $8.50........

Edited August 24, 2008 by Aysedasi

[finansista]

He/she said that no shipping quotes are made before the auction ends:

 

HAPPY TO SHIP ANYWHERE BUT NO FOREIGN QUOTES TILL AUCTION ENDS.............

 

OK, I'll just whip out a few more $$$ and ask him/her to send it via Registered Mail.

 

I agree, lesson learned. Thanks.

Edited August 24, 2008 by finansista

[Aysedasi]

Just as a matter of interest, what was he charging you - from and to?

[Strang]

If the shipping charge to your location is not specified in the listing, you have to ask the seller. Keep the email with the quoted shipping price. If they ask for more than that, after the fact, report them. If you did not ask and have already won, you are stuck. You must pay what they ask or refuse and take a non-paying bidder strike. Where is the item coming from and how much are they asking? I have seen shipping charges of upwards of $35 on an expensive pen. And I have seen some hefty (in my opinion) shipping on some pens from overseas - but that is usually for a good reason. If the seller is selling pens for $0.99 and charging twenty dollars for shipping from a U.S. address, I would report them. Beyond that, in my experience, there's not much you can do.

[Inkapable]

Is an eBay non-payment strike a way for the seller to get around the no-negative-feedback-from-sellers policy?

[Aysedasi]

Is an eBay non-payment strike a way for the seller to get around the no-negative-feedback-from-sellers policy?

 

No. Come on, you have to give a seller some kind of comeback if a buyer doesn't pay! It's happened to me three times - the last time all he got was a lousy non-paying strike. I couldn't even give the time-wasting wotsit negative feedback. As I've said on here several times, don't assume its only the sellers who are unscrupulous, there are plenty of nuisance 'buyers' too.....

 

[Inkapable]

I know some buyers are deadbeats. Thanks for clarifying. I've not sold a thing on eBay, didn't know.

[OldGriz]

OK, so I won this pen for a bit less than I expected, but now the seller prepares me an invoice with an absolutely ridiculous shipping cost. What do you usually do when the seller does such thing? I don't know if I should risk the 1st Class shipping now, since the seller is no longer trustworthy in my eyes and I feel he/she might just not send the pen at all. Should I go for Priority Mail (5 times more and even more than he/she quoted, but registered)? Help!

 

My question is where is the buyer from and what he is charging you for shipping to Poland

The US Postal System has only a few ways for a package to be shipped and have tracking and insurance... and all of them are expensive.

 

I refuse to ship a package overseas unless the buyer pays for insurance and tracking..... been burned twice by buyers that claimed they never got the package and did not buy insurance, never again

 

The difference in price between EMS and International Priority Mail for a 1 pound package is $6.50 ($28.00 for EMS, $21.50 for Int'l Priority) EMS is faster and has better tracking and includes $100 automatic insurance you need to pay for any additional.

 

Here are the specs on EMS (Express Mail Service)

Express Mail International®

All domestic Express Mail packaging, including the flat-rate envelope, now available for international shipping

• One price to Canada and Mexico—$23.95

• One price to the rest of the world—$25.95

Product Features & Benefits

Express Mail International is a reliable, high-speed mail service available to over 190 countries

• 3 to 5 average business day delivery to major destinations

• Tracking available

• Free $100 insurance

• Additional insurance available for a fee

 

Here is International Priority Mail

Priority Mail International™

Product Features & Benefits

Priority Mail International is a reliable, cost-effective way to send documents and merchandise to over 190 countries

With the exception of the flat-rate envelope, Priority Mail International is a parcel service. Written correspondence having the nature of current and personal correspondence is not permitted in Priority Mail International parcels, but may be sent in the Priority Mail International flat-rate envelope.

All domestic Priority Mail packaging, including the flat-rate envelope and boxes, are available for international shipping.

• 6 to 10 average business day delivery to major destinations

• Tracking to major destinations. Note: Tracking is not available for Priority Mail International Flat-Rate envelope.

Limited indemnity coverage provided at no extra charge

• Insurance available for a fee

[Wall Street Professor]

Can't understand why this was to moved from "Chatter" (where it clearly belongs) to "Market Watch." Don't the mods read their own instructions:

 

"Furthermore, this area is NOT a discussion place..." (as noted at the top of the Classifieds and Market Watch page).

Edited August 25, 2008 by Wall Street Professor

[extrafine]

eBay has a policy about excessive shipping charges:

 

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/listing-shipping.html

 

which you may wish to remind him of. What I'm saying is, if you refuse to pay, you have a leg to stand on.

 

I'd also say, from a non eBay perspective, that if a shipper does NOT quote shipping charges beforehand, there's an implied "reasonable" in there. I'd tend to think that $5 over the actual cost of shipping for packaging/handling is about the top (on an item like a pen) I'd feel okay with charging, and I'd let it go to about $10 before refusing to pay on the other end. There *is* a cost (time, paper, cardboard, trip to the post office, time wasted filling out customs forms) to handling, especially for international shipments.

[Robert]

Thanks for this info on international shipping--answers some questions I had.

 

My question is where is the buyer from and what he is charging you for shipping to Poland

The US Postal System has only a few ways for a package to be shipped and have tracking and insurance... and all of them are expensive.

 

I refuse to ship a package overseas unless the buyer pays for insurance and tracking..... been burned twice by buyers that claimed they never got the package and did not buy insurance, never again

 

The difference in price between EMS and International Priority Mail for a 1 pound package is $6.50 ($28.00 for EMS, $21.50 for Int'l Priority) EMS is faster and has better tracking and includes $100 automatic insurance you need to pay for any additional.

 

Here are the specs on EMS (Express Mail Service)

Express Mail International®

All domestic Express Mail packaging, including the flat-rate envelope, now available for international shipping

• One price to Canada and Mexico—$23.95

• One price to the rest of the world—$25.95

Product Features & Benefits

Express Mail International is a reliable, high-speed mail service available to over 190 countries

• 3 to 5 average business day delivery to major destinations

• Tracking available

• Free $100 insurance

• Additional insurance available for a fee

 

Here is International Priority Mail

Priority Mail International™

Product Features & Benefits

Priority Mail International is a reliable, cost-effective way to send documents and merchandise to over 190 countries

With the exception of the flat-rate envelope, Priority Mail International is a parcel service. Written correspondence having the nature of current and personal correspondence is not permitted in Priority Mail International parcels, but may be sent in the Priority Mail International flat-rate envelope.

All domestic Priority Mail packaging, including the flat-rate envelope and boxes, are available for international shipping.

• 6 to 10 average business day delivery to major destinations

• Tracking to major destinations. Note: Tracking is not available for Priority Mail International Flat-Rate envelope.

Limited indemnity coverage provided at no extra charge

• Insurance available for a fee

 

[Deirdre]

OK, so I won this pen for a bit less than I expected, but now the seller prepares me an invoice with an absolutely ridiculous shipping cost.

What's your definition of "absolutely ridiculous"?

[Gerry]

Tom,

 

[Note: This post is being made as a personal opinion only, and NO inference shall be made that FPN Admin or the FPN itself supports or shares the following opinion in any way.]

While I understand your thinking, please excuse me for not agreeing with it.

 

Somehow, your logic in suggesting that since you have been the victim of 2 people that you suspect may have lied about being delivered your product - while not being insured, and your feelings that this amounted to a scam resulting in a decision to penalize all future buyers of your products, escapes me.

 

As an ebayer with over 200 purchases, let me mention that I have never suffered a loss in delivery - either by the USPO or CANADA POST. The general delivery charge was $2.00 to $6.00. Lets settle on $4.00 as an average. Lets settle on 200 as the number of purchases.

 

According to you, your unease with the postal system entitles you to charge your customers somewhere between $21 and $28 per shipment.This, I might note appears to be a charge to protect you, not the customer...

 

If I were to have paid this, I would have expended some 24.5 x 200=$4,900 to protect the seller, not myself.

 

Doesn't this seem somewhat inequitable to you?

 

I'm quite willing to accept the risk of delivery myself, especially if it's a significant part of the purchase price, but I object to the seller demanding I protect him.

 

What might your sales have been over this period? 10? 100? 1000? Well, in each of those cases, the 2 sales that went bad constituted 20%, 2% and .2% of your gross.

 

Lets suppose that it represents a couple in a hundred sales. At 2% of gross, this is pretty normal in the retail world, and an allocation of 2% of sales to losses is quite reasonable - isn't it?

 

And isn't the response of - 'you didn't buy insurance - the loss is yours to deal with' available and legitimate under these circumstances?

 

Why should all other customers of yours have to pay high shipping fees to ensure that you don't feel obligated to pay for losses of non-insured shipments to them?

 

If your pens cost $100.00, a cost of $102.00 will, over time, cover you for fradulent claims, while mandating S&H of perhaps $28 (over a cost of $10.00 - or even $5.00 for simple Air Mail) will visit $18 to $23 extra charge (a cost to the customers of $1,800 to $2,300 extra for your peace of mind)

 

I find this a principle that a lot of sellers seem to overlook. Others appear to feel entitled to mandate excessive S&H ostensibly on the basis of perceived value, and look to the S&H as a bonus they are entitled to.

 

I want to caution purchasers to avoid excessive S&H, and to ensure that high S&H is actually paid to the shipper not the seller, if it is agreed to. Some sellers appear to assume S&H is a profit centre to which they are entitled.

 

Regards,

 

Gerry

Edited August 25, 2008 by Gerry

[OldGriz]

Tom,

 

[Note: This post is being made as a personal opinion only, and NO inference shall be made that FPN Admin or the FPN itself supports or shares the following opinion in any way.]

While I understand your thinking, please excuse me for not agreeing with it.

 

Somehow, your logic in suggesting that since you have been the victim of 2 people that you suspect may have lied about being delivered your product - while not being insured, and your feelings that this amounted to a scam resulting in a decision to penalize all future buyers of your products, escapes me.

 

As an ebayer with over 200 purchases, let me mention that I have never suffered a loss in delivery - either by the USPO or CANADA POST. The general delivery charge was $2.00 to $6.00. Lets settle on $4.00 as an average. Lets settle on 200 as the number of purchases.

 

According to you, your unease with the postal system entitles you to charge your customers somewhere between $21 and $28 per shipment.This, I might note appears to be a charge to protect you, not the customer...

 

If I were to have paid this, I would have expended some 24.5 x 200=$4,900 to protect the seller, not myself.

 

Doesn't this seem somewhat inequitable to you?

 

I'm quite willing to accept the risk of delivery myself, especially if it's a significant part of the purchase price, but I object to the seller demanding I protect him.

 

What might your sales have been over this period? 10? 100? 1000? Well, in each of those cases, the 2 sales that went bad constituted 20%, 2% and .2% of your gross.

 

Lets suppose that it represents a couple in a hundred sales. At 2% of gross, this is pretty normal in the retail world, and an allocation of 2% of sales to losses is quite reasonable - isn't it?

 

And isn't the response of - 'you didn't buy insurance - the loss is yours to deal with' available and legitimate under these circumstances?

 

Why should all other customers of yours have to pay high shipping fees to ensure that you don't feel obligated to pay for losses of non-insured shipments to them?

 

If your pens cost $100.00, a cost of $102.00 will, over time, cover you for fradulent claims, while mandating S&H of perhaps $28 (over a cost of $10.00 - or even $5.00 for simple Air Mail) will visit $18 to $23 extra charge (a cost to the customers of $1,800 to $2,300 extra for your peace of mind)

 

I find this a principle that a lot of sellers seem to overlook. Others appear to feel entitled to mandate excessive S&H ostensibly on the basis of perceived value, and look to the S&H as a bonus they are entitled to.

 

I want to caution purchasers to avoid excessive S&H, and to ensure that high S&H is actually paid to the shipper not the seller, if it is agreed to. Some sellers appear to assume S&H is a profit centre to which they are entitled.

 

Regards,

 

Gerry

 

Gerry you do not live in Europe or Asia where this happened...

As an eBay SELLER with more than more than my share of sales I have heard horror stories from other seller about postal losses in Asia and Europe (especially France and Italy)... that is why I cover myself by only shipping with insurance.... if the buyer claims the package did not arrive and even if I have a USPS receipt eBay can still find in their favor IF I can not prove delivery through tracking and that is only available with EMS...

I don't require it to Canada, but then again the buyer is told it is available and recommended....

 

[mjb30]

Gerry,

 

I agree that the choice of shipping format should be entirely at the buyer's discretion. I recently bought a borderline expensive from the US and the buyer left me with no choice with regards to shipping. The shipping cost was $23 if I remember rightly. As the value was borderline IMHO as to whether I would have gone for lower price shipping or not I wasn't too fussed but it would have been nice to have have the choice rather than have it dictated to me.

 

The bottom line is that ebay works. This has been proved for years now and the vast majority of buyers (and sellers) are legitimate, honest and will accommodate people. I admit that it's easier to avoid problem sellers than problem buyers due to the buyer being able to pick and choose. However, offering a wider variety of shipping costs is only going to lead to more sales (and higher sale prices) in the long run.

 

I guess it all comes down to honesty in the end and if the buyer realises that cheap shipping is their risk then there should be no problem. Altercations will always occur however and different points of opinion will always lead to conflict. Feedback is there for a reason and it's normally very easy to spot negative feedback unreasonable buyers.

 

Regards,

 

Matt

[finansista]

Tom,

I agree that it's generally a good idea to send everything via registered, trackable means. I generally use this with all items of above $40 value. Although I must say I've also received numerous less-valuable packages via 1st Class and none of them has ever been lost, even those from Asia that took sometimes a month to arrive. I think the "horror stories" you've heard of and experienced yourself are like you've said really the cases of dishonest buyers and not the postal system itself. As we all know "an opportunity makes a thief".

 

But then... the item I bid on yesterday was a $2 pen... And the shipping quote was $10.75 - much too low for trackable, much too high for 1st class, even adding the handling charges and lots of packing material. I usually pay $4 for just one low-value unboxed pen or some parts ($2.20 + cost of small padded envelope).

 

I'd pay this $13, no problem at all with this relatively tiny amount itself and I really like the pen. But I assumed that if the seller already decided to make some additional profit by raising the shipping quote, then why would he hesitate to not send the pen at all to make the whole thing even more profitable? If you've already made the first step then the second one comes much easier, right? And as I've said earlier: "an opportunity makes a thief".

 

Eh... no more auctions without knowing the exact or at least general quote beforehand.

 

[OldGriz]

Tom,

I agree that it's generally a good idea to send everything via registered, trackable means. I generally use this with all items of above $40 value. Although I must say I've also received numerous less-valuable packages via 1st Class and none of them has ever been lost, even those from Asia that took sometimes a month to arrive. I think the "horror stories" you've heard of and experienced yourself are like you've said really the cases of dishonest buyers and not the postal system itself. As we all know "an opportunity makes a thief".

 

But then... the item I bid on yesterday was a $2 pen... And the shipping quote was $10.75 - much too low for trackable, much too high for 1st class, even adding the handling charges and lots of packing material. I usually pay $4 for just one low-value unboxed pen or some parts ($2.20 + cost of small padded envelope).

 

I'd pay this $13, no problem at all with this relatively tiny amount itself and I really like the pen. But I assumed that if the seller already decided to make some additional profit by raising the shipping quote, then why would he hesitate to not send the pen at all to make the whole thing even more profitable? If you've already made the first step then the second one comes much easier, right? And as I've said earlier: "an opportunity makes a thief".

 

Eh... no more auctions without knowing the exact or at least general quote beforehand.

 

A standard padded envelope (6xs9") or a small box weighing 8 oz. and shipped USPS First Class cost $7.00 for postage...

Adding the cost of the envelope, packing material and maybe a bit extra for driving back and forth to the PO (in my case about 20 miles round trip) a shipping quote of $10.75 is not all that unreasonable.

If the package weighs a lot less, say 4 oz. postage is $4.00.

Depending on the weight of the package I believe that the seller is making very little profit on the shipping cost he quoted if much at all....

 

I am not saying that the seller is right, just throwing some numbers at you so you know what the actual charges are for first class mail to Poland at those weights...

 

[finansista]

Tom, I am not taking these numbers out of nowhere. Before I wrote my last post I took the last two envelopes I got the pens from US in and both have $2.20 stamped on them. We're talking about single, unboxed pens with no extras added.

 

Anyway, like I've said it's not the matter of $$$, but attitude.