Vintage rapidographs

[Splicer]

I use drawing ink in my modern rapidographs, but I've just purchased some older stylographs including a Tintenkuli (which I am loving) and some early-1960s Koh-I-Noor rapidographs (not loving so much). I'm a little hesitant to put drawing ink in them.

 

For one thing, these are all piston fillers, so they don't just disassemble. I think part of the reason that rapidographs tolerate ink with shellac in it may be that if they clog, you can take 'em apart and knock the encrusted ink off with a hammer and chisel if need be. Disassembly of a piston-filler model does not appear to be the kind of task one would undertake with much frequency.

 

I see no specific instructions about what kind of inks to use or not, but for the moment the strongest things they're getting is Private Reserve Velvet Black. Which is itself pretty densely pigmented but surely a far cry from an india ink. It flows very freely to the point where I'm concerned that it might be flowing too freely, but I haven't yet had a problem.

 

Thoughts? Opinions? Advice?

[mmoncur]

I use the 60's piston-filling Koh-i-noor Rapidographs for drawing. I have about 20 that I bought on eBay and have restored (mostly just cleaned them out and lubricated the piston.)

 

I generally use Koh-i-noor Ultradraw ink. These pens are made for drawing ink.

 

As for cleaning, these are MUCH EASIER to clean, fill, and start than the modern Rapidographs:

 

- The nib unscrews just like the modern ones (in fact, the modern nibs work as replacements)

- With the nib installed, the piston mechanism can pump water in and out of the pen, just like the silly rubber bulb you use to clean the modern ones.

- The piston mechanism unscrews from the other end, and you could clean the barrel out with a brush (I never do this except with 20-year-old eBay pens that have very dry ink in them.)

-The barrel is made of hard rubber, so no soaking in water.

 

In general, if one of these pens gets clogged, I empty the ink, then pump some diluted Koh-i-noor pen cleaner in and out of the pen a few times using the piston, followed by clean water. That works 90% of the time. The other 10%, I unscrew the nib and drop it in the ultrasonic cleaner for a few minutes.

 

Tip for filling the pens: Only fill them about halfway. Turn the knob to retract the piston halfway in the ink bottle, then turn the pen nib-side up, clean off with a paper towel, and retract the piston the rest of the way. This draws air into the air channel and reduces the chance of a leak. Since ink is drawn into the nib when you fill the pen, you usually won't have to fiddle with it for 10 minutes to get it to start.

 

I like these much better than the modern Rapidographs. They hold more ink, the piston makes starting and cleaning easier, and they're much more ergonomic for my shaky fingers.

Edited June 25, 2008 by mmoncur

[mompus]

I use drawing ink in my modern rapidographs, but I've just purchased some older stylographs including a Tintenkuli (which I am loving) and some early-1960s Koh-I-Noor rapidographs (not loving so much). I'm a little hesitant to put drawing ink in them.

 

For one thing, these are all piston fillers, so they don't just disassemble. I think part of the reason that rapidographs tolerate ink with shellac in it may be that if they clog, you can take 'em apart and knock the encrusted ink off with a hammer and chisel if need be. Disassembly of a piston-filler model does not appear to be the kind of task one would undertake with much frequency.

 

I see no specific instructions about what kind of inks to use or not, but for the moment the strongest things they're getting is Private Reserve Velvet Black. Which is itself pretty densely pigmented but surely a far cry from an india ink. It flows very freely to the point where I'm concerned that it might be flowing too freely, but I haven't yet had a problem.

 

Thoughts? Opinions? Advice?

 

 

I was out beating the bushes for pens today (in Shanghai) and found some n.o.s. "rapidograph-oid" HEROS, squeeze-bar fill. They're not something I'm into so I backed away. Did I err? I haven't a clue how well they'd work or hold up....

[Have Fun]

I'd be tempted to try Pelikan Fount India I've used it in Fountain pens with no ill effect except I find the nib bleed a little on fountain pens

Very dense, Very Black & supposedly safe for fountain pens ~ should be the next best thing to standard rapido ink

[Splicer]

As for cleaning, these are MUCH EASIER to clean, fill, and start than the modern Rapidographs:

 

Great advice! Thank you!

 

I'm a little boggled as to how to disassemble as you've described. Maybe the parts are just stuck but it's hard to get a good grip. The nib key for modern rapidographs does not fit over the vintage nib, and I'm not sure where the barrel ends and the plunger mechanism starts for the other end. I believe you, but I want to get this apart once to see for myself before I put shellac into it.

[mmoncur]

I'm a little boggled as to how to disassemble as you've described. Maybe the parts are just stuck but it's hard to get a good grip.

 

My camera is packed up right now, so here's a text-only description for now...

 

1. The nib:

 

The later versions of the nibs have two flat sides, and a standard Koh-i-noor "point key" will fit onto them. Unfortunately, they're often glued on with 20-year-old ink. In those cases, I fill the pen with Koh-i-noor pen cleaner using the piston (if possible) and then soak the tip of the pen in the solution for a day or two, keeping in mind that the barrel (the part between the section and the piston) is hard rubber and shouldn't be immersed. Eventually the nib should unscrew.

 

If you have an older nib, it's completely round and has no flat sections. In these cases I usually do the same soak and then grab them with a pair of pliers (sometimes destroying the nib in the process.) You could do it more carefully, but I'm more interested in using the pens then collecting them and I'd rather install a new tip than deal with ancient ones.

 

(Note: if your pen's barrel has a clear section and the cap has a black top, it's definitely one of the old ones and probably has the round nib.)

 

The good news is that you only have to do this once. Once the nib's been removed and cleaned you can install and remove it with ease. I usually just use my fingers.

 

Ultrasonic cleaners and soaking work well on the nibs, but like modern Rapidograph nibs, sometimes the nib will vibrate apart and if the wire comes out of one of the smaller sizes the nib's usually a lost cause.

 

2. The piston:

 

Assuming you have one of the later model pens (solid black barrel, small color-coded tip on top of cap) --

 

The piston mechanism is the color-coded part. First remove the blind cap, then twist the piston knob clockwise all the way to retract the piston. Otherwise you may end up disassembling further than intended. Unscrew the color-coded portion to remove. Wiggle it back and forth while you pull the piston out gently, making sure it isn't stuck.

 

I usually do this once for each pen, give the piston a good soak, dry off, apply silicone grease, and reinstall after the barrel is cleaned out. After that I just use the piston for regular cleaning rather than removing it.

 

If you have one of the older models (visulated section of barrel, larger black top on cap, black band between the color-coded band and the blind cap) I'm not sure how to disassemble the piston. These are relatively rare and I only have one of them, and as far as I can tell the piston mechanism is glued in. I suspect a generous application of heat or a vacumatic-like tool that could grab by the threads would be needed to get this one apart, and I haven't got that far.

 

If you do have an old one -- I suspect you might based on your description -- I'd just keep it as a collectors item (or use it for non-shellac inks) and buy a couple of the later model ones (about $10 each on eBay).

 

One more note: The section and barrel are one piece and do not come apart.

 

Good luck!

 

Picture of the later model easier-to-disassemble Rapidographs:

 

http://www.yrex.com/pics/rapido.jpg

Edited June 26, 2008 by mmoncur

[Splicer]

Thank you! You've told me exactly what I need to know.

 

I have the older style here. So that means I need to stop twisting on the plunger mechanism hoping it will come apart, because if it does I'll have bigger problems! Also: I'll wait until my vinyl pliers from richardspens.com arrive to try to get the nib out. I suspect those may be just the thing I need so as not to damage the nib.

 

I have a second Koh-I-Noor rapidograph on its way to me from "teh 'Bay", but it looks like that one is the older style too!

[mmoncur]

Yep, looks like you stumbled across some of the oldest ones... And that one you linked to looks beautiful, I'm jealous.

 

Thanks for the vinyl pliers link - I need some of those too!

 

If you want a couple of the newer-model piston Rapidographs, let me know - I'll have a few for sale after I finish restoring these. They're also not hard to find on the 'bay, although if you're insane like me and insist on collecting one of each of the 11 known color codes, it will take you a while. .

[Splicer]

Yep, looks like you stumbled across some of the oldest ones... And that one you linked to looks beautiful, I'm jealous.

 

It arrived today. It is very nice! Not quite as nice as the BEAUTIFUL Tintenkuli I got from MYU. (just trying to make you even more jealous! ) I intend to acquaint this one with some water and maybe something stronger to clean it. The ink window is pretty green and there are some black spots on the window. I'm hoping I can persuade them to go away, but all in all it's a very nice specimen. There will be photos.

 

If you want a couple of the newer-model piston Rapidographs, let me know - I'll have a few for sale after I finish restoring these. They're also not hard to find on the 'bay, although if you're insane like me and insist on collecting one of each of the 11 known color codes, it will take you a while. .

 

Do let me know when that time comes.

 

I am indeed insane like you, though what I'm really looking for right now are vintage Rotring rapidographs. I really would like to compare them with the German-built Koh-I-Noor rapidographs.

[MYU]

No pliers!! Yikes, you may score the point base with that.

 

Buy a bunch of broccoli that has the nice big wide rubber band. Use that band to unscrew the point. Yours is probably stuck on, because it hasn't been unscrewed since the pen was made. Pull in some lukewarm water, dry off the point, the use the rubber band. You'll have plenty of grip and the water inside should help lubricate the threads. If you need extra grip, wrap the other part of the rubber band around the barrel. Let me know if it works out OK.

[MYU]

am indeed insane like you, though what I'm really looking for right now are vintage Rotring rapidographs. I really would like to compare them with the German-built Koh-I-Noor rapidographs.

They are basically the same with two important differences: The Rotring has an ink window section on the barrel and the point has a different kind of writing tube (which allows for easier writing of words, while the Koh-i-noor writing tube is more crisp for drawing sharp lines). And then there are some cosmetic differences, like the black cap dome (rather cool--Kohinoor never had black) and the red ring with Tintenkuli imprinted on it (Kohinoor had red for the #2 size, but it just says "Rapdiograph" on it).

[Splicer]

They are basically the same with two important differences: The Rotring has an ink window section on the barrel and the point has a different kind of writing tube (which allows for easier writing of words, while the Koh-i-noor writing tube is more crisp for drawing sharp lines). And then there are some cosmetic differences, like the black cap dome (rather cool--Kohinoor never had black) and the red ring with Tintenkuli imprinted on it (Kohinoor had red for the #2 size, but it just says "Rapdiograph" on it).

 

So the Rotrings were more like the older-style Koh-I-Noors? The ink window and black cap dome sound an awful lot like the Koh-I-Noor you sent and the one I just got. Or am I misunderstanding?

[psfred]

The Tintenkuhli may have a general writing tip, meaning it's rounded over so you can use it at the normal writing angles instead of vertically.

 

The older Rapidographs are indeed nice piston fillers. You will need to sonicate and/or soak the nib unit to get it out, it will be nicely glued in with ink, just like my new style Rapidographs from a previous life pre-computer graphing programs.

 

I like the old style Rapidograph MUCH better than the new ones, they feel really cheap and flimsy in comparison.

 

Peter

[Silas]

I wish I would have read this thread earlier instead of buying 3 on ebay for $24.05. They are listed as 00, 0, and 2. I bought these today and should be on their way shortly.

 

I thought these were sort of like the Reform piston fillers. Since the picture didn't show the nib, I assumed there was a FOUNTAIN pen nib.

 

Oh, well, I guess I'll just find someone to trade with since I have NO use for drawing pens.

 

A lesson learned......know what you're buying!

[Splicer]

I wish I would have read this thread earlier instead of buying 3 on ebay for $24.05. They are listed as 00, 0, and 2. I bought these today and should be on their way shortly.

 

I thought these were sort of like the Reform piston fillers. Since the picture didn't show the nib, I assumed there was a FOUNTAIN pen nib.

 

Oh, well, I guess I'll just find someone to trade with since I have NO use for drawing pens.

 

A lesson learned......know what you're buying!

 

What kind did you get? I believe Rotring and Koh-I-Noor did make piston-fillers (the early version of the ArtPen) but you're correct that with nib sizes listed as 00 0 and 2 you're almost certainly looking at stylographs.

 

I've been known to take stylographs off people's hands....

[Silas]

I wish I would have read this thread earlier instead of buying 3 on ebay for $24.05. They are listed as 00, 0, and 2. I bought these today and should be on their way shortly.

 

I thought these were sort of like the Reform piston fillers. Since the picture didn't show the nib, I assumed there was a FOUNTAIN pen nib.

 

Oh, well, I guess I'll just find someone to trade with since I have NO use for drawing pens.

 

A lesson learned......know what you're buying!

 

What kind did you get? I believe Rotring and Koh-I-Noor did make piston-fillers (the early version of the ArtPen) but you're correct that with nib sizes listed as 00 0 and 2 you're almost certainly looking at stylographs.

 

I've been known to take stylographs off people's hands....

 

 

I don't know what kind they are Splicer, but, either way, I'm not likely to use any kind of drawing pen.

If you like, when I get them in I'll let you know just what they are and you can have first dibs on them.

 

Maybe we can work a trade or something. I was just looking for some fountain pens for my English students!

[MYU]

Yep, those are technical pens alright. Not a bad price for them, though, if they're in very good condition. Don't be quick to discount them. Fill with ink and try out, see if you might actually like them. Maybe even keep one and sell the rest, just to have an example.

 

If you're looking for pens to have your English students use, you might want to consider the cheap Sailor "ink pen" fountain pens. Jared is selling them on eBay (he brought a boat load back from Japan). Or you could pick up a bunch of Pilot Varsity pens. They are also great introductory fountain pens without shelling out much $$.

Edited July 14, 2008 by MYU

[plantin110]

Hello Splicer

A very fine portrait you have. I just acquired from Germany 6 of the old piston filler rapidographs.

and I have been told that the best ink to use is Magicolor liquid acrylic

This is a bit thicker than normal and doesn't run out. I don't know about regular rotring drawing ink

I only use that in my old variants