Is There Any Info On Sustainability, Fair Trade, Environmental Impact For Fountain Pen Producers?

[Larry Barrieau]

Yes, the 'veracity' part.

[KBeezie]

Speaking only on the environmental impact (since the other impacts are more sociopolitical/economical etc and vary by country of manufacture, brand, etc).

 

A fountain pen when used with bottled ink, is probably the most environmentally friendly setup, as there is no plastic waste (and used ink bottles tend to get recycled/reused), not factoring in the paper waste which would occur with other pens anyways. It's also the most economical compared to cartridges on a price per milliliter basis.

 

Far as the rest, really depends on who is making it, how it is bought/sold (new vs used/vintage), and the policies of the company/country producing them.

 

I prefer to buy (or trade) vintage when I can, which has probably changed so many hands, and probably had an old part or two replaced least once in it's 20-100 year life time (as opposed to a dozen BICs lost or crushed over a span of a short few years).

 

Gold nibs being a noble metal does not react negatively to the environment in most normal situations (water, air, etc), so usually wouldn't lead to corrosion or toxicity depending on the alloy, and as a valuable metal, as miniscule as it is, would eventually get recycled when it's purpose as a nib has been outlived. Steel is more likely to end up in a landfill along with it's plastic/metal container if it is not recycled or restore (especially if the material ends up corroded from neglect). Also gold nibs being resistant to corrosion from water/air/ink will last longer under normal usage, and as a result won't promote waste.

 

Not sure about things like Fair Trade, and how it would apply to a "luxury" item such as a fountain pen. But I guess like Coffee, it's more of a necessity to some people. (I'm also not 100% familiar with 'fair trade' other than sounding like a price-fixing arrangement).

 

Most of the money I spend towards a 'new' pen product are consumables, and half the time doesn't seem like it gets spent towards regions with questionable worker conditions.

Edited March 23, 2015 by KBeezie

[Jamesbeat]

You are not taking into account that those people who work in "sweatshops" do so because it is often the only way to keep their families alive. We who are from countries where we have many other choices should realize that they do not. When we want to feel good and not buy from those dealers whose employees are working under brutal conditions we should also consider what real results may come from that action.

I agree with the above, and would actually go a little further.

I attended a lecture on this very subject a few years ago, specifically about China.

The basic point was that, despite conditions and wages that we in the West would view as poor, these types of manufacturing jobs are actually some of the best jobs available in the country in which these workers live.

The alternative was essentially wasing around in paddy fields all day, which is very unpleasant and quite hazardous.

The lecture completely changed my view on Chinese goods.

Industry helps developing countries to improve. When we buy goods from them, their quality of life improves. It's probably pretty unpleasant working in a Chinese factory, but it's a lot better than the alternative.

Look at how dangerous and unpleasant industry was a hundred years ago in the UK or the US, and look at how we live today.

We may just be helping those people build a better country, not for themselves perhaps, but for their children.

 

As to environmental impact, I doubt it is worth expending effort worrying about something so tiny as the fountain pen industry.

This is not a criticism, I think it is very commendable that you consider these things, but maybe your efforts would be better directed at consumables such as detergents, toilet paper, heat loss in the home etc.

 

I know that it is deeply unpopular, but the single biggest thing we could do for the environment is nuclear power. The modern power station designs are superb, and nothing like the ones of the past.

 

Maybe if we had clean electricity, those hybrid cars would actually be as environmentally friendly as everyone seems to think they are.

[cellmatrix]

One of the biggest things you can do to avoid environmental impact is, instead of wasting valuable natural resources on a new pen, to repurpose a good restored vintage pen. Sadly, with the trend towards ballpoints, there are a great many vintage fountain pens out there which are not being used anymore. Most of them, given a new home, are easy to maintain and can be durable enough to last you a lifetime. Plus, as a bonus, many have features, such as flexible nibs, which are unequaled by current new pens.

Edited March 23, 2015 by cellmatrix

[Wolverine1]

No, I dont really care about "fair trade" pens and inks and paper. Why, because "fair trade" is essentially nothing but a scam. Like the "fair trade" coffees for example. I know from working in the coffee business, that "fair trade" is more or less a marketing scam dreamt up so that importers can get away with selling very low quality coffee at inflated prices. Plus, there is the issue of verification. So, no thank you, I will stay "fair trade" free.

Like Waski the Squirrel said, if you want to truely be conscious of environmental impacts, the key is to reduce consumption. That means stop buying every pen that you take a liking for, stop buying products manufactured in the PRC( China), and stick to using the few pens you have.

I have culled my collection from 300+ pens to 25 now, and even that I plan on culling till I have only 5 or 6 pens, that I use on a daily basis.

Sorry for the rant.

[KBeezie]

Plus, as a bonus, many have features, such as flexible nibs, which are unequaled by current new pens.

Which are disappearing rapidly as new users destroy them.

[rwilsonedn]

You may just have to accept that when you consume manufactured goods, you leave ecological footprints and, at least at the beginning of the supply chain, you exploit people who would much rather have your life than theirs. Plastics are petroleum products. Metals come from mining. Even buying vintage increases the total demand, eventually causing new products to be manufactured. Sustainability or Fair-Trade labels are as often as not marketing issues, and at worst are simply ways of concealing a truth you would rather not hear. Paper from a sustainably-grown fiber may consume far more irreplaceable water than a conventional paper from another region. A fair-traded product still earns the producer a small fraction of what he would receive in the US or Western Europe for the same product. If he accepts the price willingly, what is fair--my perception or his?

Perhaps the best consolation is to admit that what you consume has costs, and to appreciate it for what it has cost other people.

ron

[cellmatrix]

Which are disappearing rapidly as new users destroy them.

Speaking from personal experience??

[_Stormin_]

 

Levis are made by slave Chinese labor. 12 hour shifts, hot bed barracks, 366 days a year...and all Chinese factores are death traps for Jeans making.raw chemicals, no mask....dead by 40....fired when too sick to work at 35.

The jeans material is imported to China from N. Carolina.

 

 

I don't know which jeans are still made in the US....bound to be a couple.

1: Source?

 

2: There are some. They are not cheap.

[htjester]

apologies for not quoting individual posts- haven't figured that out and don't want to do 15 replies. Thanks to all of you for your responses.

I'm particularly interested in the Pilot and Sailor programs.Thanks for those links! I've also remembered that Clairefontaine claims to manufacture paper from sustainably managed forests on a historic water mill (not convinced this is better than recycling though).

 

You all raise interesting concerns about fair trade as a marketing illusion. While I agree that how we purchase pens is a small factor in environment and trade, I, at least, would pay a small premium for verification that my pen was produced with minimal environmental impact and that those who made it and sourced the materials were fairly compensated for their labor. Or for those who prefer it, enough information about that production process to purchase a carbon offset? Buy local and buy vintage are great ideas but there are always going to be beautiful pens made in other countries.

 

As several have mentioned, "fair trade" is a marketing buy-in little different from "organic." these labels are expensive to purchase and small-scale producers often do better financially outside that system. Boycotts can be powerful (see Barilla's new employment policies) or poorly implemented (boycotting Stoli vodka distilled in Latvia does not change Russia's laws). And yes, there are jeans still made in the USA, though those produced in California are making a bad drought worse. Accurate information is crucial when making purchasing decisions.I see that we are all still making assumptions with little evidence.It is entirely possible that some factories in China do less harm than we assume, for instance. The durability of gold over steel nibs outweighing initial production is also an interesting take. I'm also curious about the "plant based" resins in high end pens--those manufactured from cotton for instance could be far worse for the environment than using recycled petroleum plastics. I'll be asking these questions before I purchase my next pen. If enough of us do, more information about production may eventually appear on websites.

 

thanks for your thoughts on this so far. I'm learning a great deal.

[KBeezie]

Speaking from personal experience??

Fortunately not. Just from what I keep seeing as people seem to have a weird pride in showing off what they screwed up on reddit.

[Djehuty]

I agree with the above, and would actually go a little further.

I attended a lecture on this very subject a few years ago, specifically about China.

The basic point was that, despite conditions and wages that we in the West would view as poor, these types of manufacturing jobs are actually some of the best jobs available in the country in which these workers live.

The alternative was essentially wasing around in paddy fields all day, which is very unpleasant and quite hazardous.

The lecture completely changed my view on Chinese goods.

Industry helps developing countries to improve. When we buy goods from them, their quality of life improves. It's probably pretty unpleasant working in a Chinese factory, but it's a lot better than the alternative.

Look at how dangerous and unpleasant industry was a hundred years ago in the UK or the US, and look at how we live today.

We may just be helping those people build a better country, not for themselves perhaps, but for their children.

 

Sadly, you are mistaken. That these jobs are better than abject, inescapable, starvation-level poverty does not make them good, and we are absolutely not helping anyone in the current state of affairs. Foreign companies move their production to China not because they want to uplift the locals, but because they can get incredibly cheap labor, nearly slave labor, and need spend little on workplace safety.

 

Good employers don't have to put up suicide-prevention netting on the dormitories where they force their workers to live, mainly because good employers don't force their workers, period. Yes, these jobs are better than the rice paddies, but in much the same way that losing one leg is better than losing both legs. Neither is something you actually want to experience.

 

Worse, we the consumer have little or no voice. The corporations exploiting this system are so huge that they can ignore opposition to these practices, especially since for many items there is no available alternative to something made in a Chinese or other sweatshop. You can't even vote with your wallet.

 

Something to remember is that the improvement in industrial conditions in the US and UK came at the cost of much suffering, violence, and death.

 

No, I dont really care about "fair trade" pens and inks and paper. Why, because "fair trade" is essentially nothing but a scam. Like the "fair trade" coffees for example. I know from working in the coffee business, that "fair trade" is more or less a marketing scam dreamt up so that importers can get away with selling very low quality coffee at inflated prices. Plus, there is the issue of verification. So, no thank you, I will stay "fair trade" free.

 

I was thinking more of the fair trade ideal than the actual certification process. For example, when I was buying good coffee I bought from Intelligentsia, because I had more trust in their dealings with coffee growers around the world than I did in the Fair Trade label. Verification and enforcement are difficult issues.

[Ron Z]

Just a reminder.... from the FPN board rules:

 

 

 

Overtly political or religious threads are prohibited on The Fountain Pen Network.

 

This discussion is awfully close to crossing over the line.

[Moshe ben David]

I have a total and absolute disagreement that the 'politics' of the executives should play a role. How far down the executive org chart would you go? Realizing that most of the executive/managment team are in effect employees and not owners, why in blazes do you feel that you even have a right to know what is essentially their personal life?

 

If you want to judge based on mission statement, documented contributions to political parties or the like, that may be different. But intruding into the personal views and deciding whether or not to 'boycott' a company on that basis is a bridge too far for me.

 

In terms of sustainability and in terms of how the job(s) and working conditions of employees matter I lean towards looking at how it is relative to their local labor market.

 

I think the moderator is correct. This thread for me has become not a topic for fountain pens but rather an exercise in left wing politics. Hope it gets shut down.

[Wolverine1]

Yep, this is a political post posted by a wanna-be hipster.

[Djehuty]

I have a total and absolute disagreement that the 'politics' of the executives should play a role. How far down the executive org chart would you go? Realizing that most of the executive/managment team are in effect employees and not owners, why in blazes do you feel that you even have a right to know what is essentially their personal life?

 

If you want to judge based on mission statement, documented contributions to political parties or the like, that may be different. But intruding into the personal views and deciding whether or not to 'boycott' a company on that basis is a bridge too far for me.

 

In terms of sustainability and in terms of how the job(s) and working conditions of employees matter I lean towards looking at how it is relative to their local labor market.

 

I think the moderator is correct. This thread for me has become not a topic for fountain pens but rather an exercise in left wing politics. Hope it gets shut down.

 

Who said any of those things you're disagreeing with? I went back and looked over every post, and I don't see what you say you see. Are we really so politicized now that just saying people ought to have decent working conditions and maybe destroying the environment is bad constitutes left-wing radicalism?

 

And here I am without even one Che Guevara T-shirt....

[mike.jane]

Oh, I don't think we need to resort to name calling here.

Wolverine1, don't you think that's a bit uncalled for?

[htjester]

Like our moderator, I would appreciate it if people responding to this thread could focus on what we know about how pens are produced, not their personal views about free trade, fair trade, and the merits of boycotting companies. This is turning into chestbeating thread-hijacking. I simply want information about how pens are produced, not your off-topic complaints about how some consumers use that information, much less your insults. I have found the few responses that stayed on topic quite helpful.

 

So here are some more questions I'd rather you answer, if you can, either with facts or speculation:

 

Does anyone know enough about the modern urushi processes to comment as to whether it is still dangerous for the artisans?

 

Are there any inside-factory videos for pen producers, including those outside Europe and Japan? (I've viewed ones from Pelikan and Platinum)

 

Where are the forests that eventually become ebonite parts?

 

And from above, now lost in the politicking, any information whatsoever on what "precious resins" are made of and/or how these cotton and other vegetal resins are made?

 

Moderators: please lock this thread if anyone else posts something that has nothing to do with pens.. Thank you.

Edited March 26, 2015 by htjester

[Ron Z]

The basic question having been answered, the topic is closed.