Pilot Custom 823 F Skipping

[Zebra]

So I just got a Pilot 823 with an F nib as my first premium pen. I've bought some Iroshizuku ink that is on it's way, but currently I only have J.Herbin Perle Noire to fill the pen with. Before I did that, I flushed the pen a few times with distilled water at room temperature.

 

Now, although I've unscrewed the top cap fully, the 823 seems to write with an inconsistent ink flow and a lot of skipping. What should I do? Does the fault lie with the ink? I have a TWSBI 580 EF loaded with the same Perle Noire ink and that writes just fine and consistently.

 

Thanks!

Edited February 24, 2015 by Zebra

[Cdub24]

I got my first 823 with a F nib about 2 weeks ago as well. The ink will help but I had similar issues even using iroshizuku. Even unscrewing the plunger as per instructions worked sometimes but not always. I did find a video over at fpgeeks and on goulet where it shows how to take the small seal off the plunger end which I did and now i have no flow problems or skipping and I don't need to remember to unscrew each time i go to use it. It's a great pen and I'm enjoying it so much I'm thinking of getting it in a M. Enjoy!

[Zebra]

I got my first 823 with a F nib about 2 weeks ago as well. The ink will help but I had similar issues even using iroshizuku. Even unscrewing the plunger as per instructions worked sometimes but not always. I did find a video over at fpgeeks and on goulet where it shows how to take the small seal off the plunger end which I did and now i have no flow problems or skipping and I don't need to remember to unscrew each time i go to use it. It's a great pen and I'm enjoying it so much I'm thinking of getting it in a M. Enjoy!

 

Thanks, that was fast! I'll give it a shot. I agree, the writing experience is quite pleasant, much springier/smoother than my TWSBI 580 EF. Although I find the Pilot to be a bit back heavy, but that's just my first impression.

[Zebra]

Well, I removed the o-ring but it's still skipping. Maybe a tad better than before, but not by much. I noticed that when I'm just dragging the 823 over the paper, without actively pushing the nib down, then it doesn't write at all. I think that this might be the reason for the skipping, since I didn't have to do that with my 580AL.

[Bill P]

I recently purchased a 823 with a medium nib...gave it an initial cleaning, and then loaded it with Akkerman Shocking Blue...was great in the beginning, but then after a few days began to experience slow start and occasional skip...

 

Cleaned the pen again and loaded it with Iroshizuku Ku-jaku...haven't had a problem since..

 

So my initial conclusion is that my problem was the Akkerman ink and the 823 simply didn't play well together..

 

I love the 823...simply a great writer, and it holds a lot of ink.

 

I hope you are able to get yours to operate so that you really enjoy it...

 

Bill

[Zebra]

Interesting, I really hope that the J.Herbin ink I'm using is the problem. I have some Irushizuku on it's way and will report back once I've tried it.

[gregamckinney]

One other thought: A flush of a new pen with just distilled water may not be sufficient. I always use diluted soapy (dish washing solution) water when I flush new pens.

 

Other than the nib width (mine is a B,) I have used the exact pen and ink combination you are using, and have had no issues whatsoever.

 

Best Regards and good luck getting your pen operating properly.

greg

[Jeff_H]

I wonder if the tines may be set just a little bit too close together? That will limit the ink flow. It would only take a small adjustment to increase the flow a bit. It can be done with the brass sheets used to clean and floss between tines, like the type Goulet sells. I know there is a video floating around out there showing how to do it.

 

Basically you get the paper between the tines, turn the tines on their side so one is on top of the other. Fold the sheet in half essentially, with the tine inside the fold at the bottom of the fold. Apply gentle pressure by pulling the paper upwards... again, slightly and small adjustments. Flip the nib over and pull the other tine apart in the opposite direction. Check your work after you have gently pulled on each tine, adjusting until the flow is where you want it.

 

I hope this makes sense and I hope it helps. Remember, it's fairly easy to make a pen write wetter. It's much more difficult to make it write drier.

[Zebra]

Thanks Jeff, I'll check that as soon as the magnifier that I've ordered arrives. I found this video from sbrebrown:

 

[Zebra]

Just a quick update: I have now inked my 823 up with Iroshizuku take-sumi, but it still writes dry and skips, unless I apply extra pressure. I really hope that it's just a issue with the tines being too close together. I have to wait for one to two more weeks till the magnifier and brass shims arrive, and it's killing me.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Zebra

[Jeff_H]

I too hope all your pen needs is a simple adjustment. The 823 is such a joy to write with. I've had good luck with Pilot bibs, so I have faith that yours is a simple fix. I know some members can spread the tines slightly by turning the nib over and applying outward pressure with their thumbnails placed between the nib shoulders and the feed. I was always worried I would slip and pull the nib too far apart. Perhaps if I were able to see it done I would feel more comfortable.

 

I hope your wait ends as soon as possible.

[Aetheric Continua]

I wonder if the tines may be set just a little bit too close together? That will limit the ink flow. It would only take a small adjustment to increase the flow a bit. It can be done with the brass sheets used to clean and floss between tines, like the type Goulet sells. I know there is a video floating around out there showing how to do it.

 

Basically you get the paper between the tines, turn the tines on their side so one is on top of the other. Fold the sheet in half essentially, with the tine inside the fold at the bottom of the fold. Apply gentle pressure by pulling the paper upwards... again, slightly and small adjustments. Flip the nib over and pull the other tine apart in the opposite direction. Check your work after you have gently pulled on each tine, adjusting until the flow is where you want it.

 

I hope this makes sense and I hope it helps. Remember, it's fairly easy to make a pen write wetter. It's much more difficult to make it write drier.

Woah. For some reason, I always thought you were suppose to just "floss" the brass sheet between the tines. I never thought to use it to gently pull them apart. Though I think it would be best to remove the nib from the pen before attempting this, so that more of the shim can fit between the tines and you won't end up just bending the tipping.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Aetheric Continua

[dspeers58]

Have you checked to see if the nib is in contact with the feed? Sometimes, if you are a bit heavy-handed, you can slightly bend the nib up and away from the feed and leave the gap between the feed and the nib too wide. Some have said that you should be able to just slide a light piece of paper between the feed and nib with the slightest bit of resistance. If you can slide the paper between the nib and feed with no resistance you might have bend the nib.

[Zebra]

Good news: I just received the .001/.002 brass shims and an unbranded Goulet loupe 15x.

 

Have you checked to see if the nib is in contact with the feed?

 

I've just checked with my new loupe and it looks like the nib lies down flush on the feed, as far as I can see with this loupe anyway. I'm generally not a very heavy-handed pen user.

 

Now I'm a bit disappointed with the magnification level of the loupe; I think a 20x would have been better, but as far as I can at this level, the tine spacing seems good at the breather hole, but is too tight in the direction of the tipping. I made a picture in hope that someone might be able to confirm this for me:

 

http://i.imgur.com/EFS7V4f.png

Edited March 7, 2015 by Zebra

[Aetheric Continua]

Mine was the same way I sent it to Pendleton Brown today to have it turned into a BLS.

 

Before I sent it off, I was able to open the tines at the tipping a bit by doing what Jeff suggested. It improved the flow, but I still had hard starts :/

[Zebra]

Sad to here I'm not the only one. I think I will have to send mine to a nibmeister too - or contact the Pilot's German support center - because it looks like I've ruined the nib by overbending the tines. I've worked on it for hours with the brass shims, slowly trying to widen the gap by wiggling and pulling the tines apart from each other, always checking my work with the loupe, but they just would not stay in place. They are much harder to move than I thought a 14k gold nib would be. In the end, it seems like I pulled a little too hard, because as you can see in the photo, the left tine is now pointing outward and the pen won't write at all anymore. I guess that the capillary action is interrupted by the widening gap?

 

http://i.imgur.com/EEbPZE4.jpg

 

 

[Aetheric Continua]

Yeah, I believe the capillary action is preventing the ink from getting to the paper. You may have been pulling too much towards the tip and not where the tines are closest to the body

[Matt.Nethery]

Yikes, this is unsettling to see. I really like Pilot pens and have purchased many premium models. I have never had a problem like this with any of mine but then again I don't have an 823. At this price point I think this kind of issue is unacceptable. A lot of people buy from respected dealers, who test their pens first, for this reason.

 

It hurts to do but send it back for replacement. Don't go messing with the tines risking voiding your warranty. Or send it to a nibmeister...

 

Good luck im sorry you've had a bad experience.

[sadiemagic]

I have an 823, and I find that it is not enough to simply unscrew the cap. I have to pull the cap out after it's unscrewed, not far at all, just barely enough as if I were going to pull it to fill the pen. Then it writes with no issues. Otherwise it can be hard to start, or the writing experience gets "drier" the longer I write.

 

Once I figured that out, all was well. I don't know if that will help your situation or not. Mine was purchased from Classic Fountain Pens and the nib was "tuned" (as well as ground to a CI) by John Mottishaw.

[Zebra]

I removed the inner o-ring like described here [1], so flow is not an issue.

 

Since I couldn't find any nibmeisters in my area, I decided to try to fix it myself. By pushing the tine with the over-bent tip (the left one) over the top of the other using my finger nails, I managed to straighten it out. Also, I gave widening the gap with the brass shim one more shot, and after heavy pulling (near the breather hole this time), the channel has opened up a bit. The good news is that the pen now doesn't skip anymore and writes with a slightly wider line. The bad news is that it is now too wet for my tastes I get the feeling that it's so wet that I can't write a 100% clear block letters anymore. Maybe that has something to do with the Iroshizuku ink?

 

Another issue I'm having now though, is that I get the feeling that the nib is a bit scratchy compared to the way it was before my "tuning". Is it possible that I have damaged the tipping during my working on the ink flow? I'm not 100% sure if the nib was smoother before as I did not use it that much. I don't think it's an alignment issue, at least not as far as I can tell with this 15x loupe.

 

[1] https://youtu.be/bXeXPKzXxQQ?t=3m17s