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I Want A Pilot Vp, But...


Oldtimer

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I went through a Vanishing Point fetish period where I felt like I had to have every one. Here is an example of my excess (you can see Decimo, Fermo and regular):

3258230084_239cc863f9_b.jpg

3684874511_77281d9c3d_b.jpg

 

I've calmed down now and only have a few left but I have many more nibs than pens. The great thing about the VP is the easy interchangeability of the nibs so I have several and can switch out whenever I feel like a change. If you look around you should be able to pick up an additional standard nib unit new for ~$50. And if you're patient you can find them second hand for less - sometimes ground to an italic or stub.

Edited by Siv

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Danitrio Fellow, Nakaya Nutter, Sailor Sailor (ret), Visconti Venerator, Montegrappa Molester (in training), ConwayStewart Champion & Diplomat #77

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I went through a Vanishing Point fetish period where I felt like I had to have every one. Here is an example of my excess (you can see Decimo, Fermo and regular):

 

 

 

I've calmed down now and only have a few left but I have many more nibs than pens. The great thing about the VP is the easy interchangeability of the nibs so I have several and can switch out whenever I feel like a change. If you look around you should be able to pick up an additional standard nib unit new for ~$50. And if you're patient you can find them second hand for less - sometimes ground to an italic or stub.

 

That was an impressive collection, I see.

 

Since you owned them both Decimo and VP, which one did you preferred? I see that Decimo seems to be from around 2012 or older, I wouldn't like to pay the same for an old model.

 

What is the difference of the italic and stub? Does the italic has the slant (left or right?)-- I suppose a medium or Broad is better modified to an Italic. I had ordered on Amazon, but saw that it was taking too long to be shipped, so I canceled. It worries me when I don't get fast shipment on Amazon.

Edited by Oldtimer
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Oldtimer:

 

My experience: I bought my first VP in 1999 (I was 52 and had only returned to using fountain pens in 1997) and used it every day at work, taking it to and from, and it still looks and functions like a brand new one. I got it with a M nib and it wrote very smooth. My first Japanese pen, so the M nib was fine to me compared with my other pens (Sheaffer, Kaweco F, Waterman F, Monteverde M).

 

The VP wrote perfectly wet, sat unused for up to two weeks without any nib dryness, so they seal very well when retracted. Used Pilot ink until I discovered Noodler's Black in 2009 and used it since. No problems ever. I went two or more years without flushing the pen out, never really needed to. Was always there when I needed it. I love the convenience of the simple click.

 

In November 2014 I bought the 2015 LE Copper Vanishing Point. It came with the M nib. Also wrote wonderfully wet. Perfect.

 

Then I bought the EF, F, and B nib sections so I can switch back and forth. I make nib caps that seal the spare inked nib assemblies air tight so I can switch around without having to re-ink.

 

The B is quite broad, silky smooth, I like to write checks with Noodler's with this nib. The EF and F nibs both are very nice wet writers, never skip or go dry. The F is finer than my Lamy EF. I use it to write in my Midori Traveler's Notebook. I love the EF but it is for a writer with a very light touch on the paper. VERY fine.

 

I have Noodler's Bad Black Moccasin it the EF and the F (dries a little faster than regular Noodler's Black). The new M and B nibs both "sing" when I write on smooth paper like Clairefontaine or Rhodia. Sometimes, not always. Not sure if I hear it or feel it through the pen. I like it, it is like the nib is singing a song to me. Almost not noticeable at all. Neither the EF nor the F nibs feel scratchy, none of my VP nibs have ever felt scratchy except the original M nib that had one tine slightly higher than the other tine (after 10 years of use). I think I must have jammed the nib against the inside of the pen when I was replacing the assembly once and bent the nib slightly I corrected that easily.

 

The EF will feel scratchy if you write on coarse cheap paper with it, especially if you use a heavy touch.

 

Since the Decimo and VP use the same nib assemblies, the writing smoothness and behavior of the nib are the same. The slightly smaller size and lighter weight of the Decimo appeals to me, I just read a review here comparing the two.

 

I typically carry one VP with the F nib and the second one with the M nib.

 

If I lost one I would immediately replace it. I have and use a number of other pens, some I like as much as the VP's, but the click action on the VP is just great. Or, if I lost a VP I might replace it with a Decimo.

 

So, Oldtimer, let us all know what you get and what you think of it.

 

Oh, I forgot - italic nibs, strictly speaking, have sharp edges so they make their lines with very sharp edges to them. However, they are harder to write with using normal handwriting, so when a wide nib is given rounded edges to reduce the tendency to dig into the paper when you make a curve, they are called stub nibs, or stub italic. Many refer to both as italic. Unless you are doing calligraphy, you want the stub nib.

 

The slanted italic/stub nibs are called oblique. Like "oblique left" or "oblique right". That is my understanding. I have several stub nibs in 1.1mm and 1.5mm. I like to use the 1.5mm when I don't write that small. Remember, you can get an extra Pilot nib assembly and have it ground to what you want. Goulet Pens is selling the Pilot VP nib assemblies with converters for $55. You can choose 18k gold, 18k gold plated with rhodium, and 18k gold with a matte black finish. The price on these was $65 recently, not sure if it will go back up soon or not.

Edited by graystranger

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graystranger

I wanted someone to talk to me "decimo" stuff and you have... sort of, because you have not used one. I really need to test them both. I love my Jinhao X750 because of its weight, which is heavier than most of my other pens, although I like lighter pens like the Namiki Falcon- though not for their weight. My ideal weight would be either like the Heritage 912 or Jinhao X750. I will check their weights to see how they compare to the VP. But, I know the Decimo would look more "ladylike". On a womans' hand with long painted nails a big matte VP would look nice indeed. I wish I could find a store in Orlando where they had both. Not a chance in this forsaken land! Thank you all! I wish I could decide soon.

Edited by Oldtimer
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I hedged for a long time prior to purchasing my first (and so far only) VP because of similar concerns and feelings to you. I was never really a fan of the way the VP looked with the long knock and strange design. I was also quite concerned about clip placement getting in the way with my ability to use the pen comfortably. Regardless, I couldn't argue with the convenience factor, as I found myself rarely using many of my other fountain pens on a day-to-day basis because of having to deal with a cumbersome screw-on cap. When I am at work, I often find myself taking very quick notes and needing to have quick access to my pen, and my other fountain pens prevented much of this. Despite not having any place to try hardly any fountain pens, let alone the Pilot, I decided to take a blind leap and purchase my Matte Black VP with EF nib from Richard Binder. I will tell you right now that I don't regret it one bit.

 

This pen has been my daily driver since I received it, and I am extremely happy with my purchase. It's beyond practical and functional; enough that I can get over the less-than-elegant appearance. I have not had any issues with the clip placement, and I find the weight of the pen to be very nice. It is pretty shockingly heavy for a pen of its size, but I think it offers a feeling of quality. My only complaint is the ink capacity, but because of how fine the EF nib is, I still get by without having to fill up too frequently.

 

My matte black finish is starting to show some signs of brassing and wear after only ~4 months of daily use, but I have reached out to Pilot and they have responded quickly to encourage me to send it in for refurbishing. I will likely do it soon, but I am now also thinking very strongly about buying a second VP because I like the pen so much. Hopefully my next purchase will be a raden VP :)

1959 Pelikan 400NN Flexible "F" | Pilot VP Matte Black, Binderized "EF" | TWSBI 580 with 0.6mm Pendleton Point Butter Line Stub | Waterman 0952 1/2v | Lamy Safari Charcoal "EF" and 1.1mm | Noodler's Konrad Fleur de Lis Blue Tortoise | Pilot Parallel 3.8mm

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I hadn't heard that the Decimo is no longer in production. Even if it is, I think it's unreasonable to reject it simply because of that. Many of us use vintage pens from the 30's (or earlier), 40's or 50's every day. Also, there's nothing inherently out of date about the Decimo. It's just a slender version of the VP. Also, sometimes pens actually go up in market value among collectors/aficionados when they're out of production.

These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives everything its value.--Thomas Paine, "The American Crisis", 1776

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I have both a VP and Decimo and like them both very much. I have not heard that the Decimo is no longer in production - they just don't seem to come out with new models every year like they do with the VP. Mine are both medium and they are finer and drier than, say, a Pelikan medium (and Pelikans are wet and tend to the broad side). They're smooth to write with and comfortable for me to hold, though if I had to choose on the basis of comfort I would probably choose the Decimo for its lighter and slimmer design, though it's very close.

 

My decimo is the violet one and has a beautiful finish. I'm not as enamoured of the look of the white carbonesque VP, but I bought it for the slightly textured finish, which I do like the feel of.

 

it is a shame that there is such a big size gap in the VP/Decimo line between the medium and fine. I think a medium-fine would be very popular.

 

Sarah

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I looked on Amazon last night and there are Decimo pens in a lot of color options and they are cheaper than the Vanishing Point prices in the US. They are in the $122 range. Looks like you can get F or M nibs. Did not see any others available. The sellers are in Japan, but shipping to the US is no problem.

 

If I'd known about the Decimo (or if they had been available in 1999) I would probably have bought one over the VP. Tempted now, but I don't need a third retractable pen right now (so I tell myself). I find i write very well with both light and heavy pens, depending on their geometry. But, I find the slightly slimmer and lighter form of the Decimo is very attractive to me. What fun having decisions like this to make!

 

I suggest you get a Decimo and let us know how you like it. Photos too please. I know I would love a Decimo, I don't have to hold one to tell.

Edited by graystranger

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Since you owned them both Decimo and VP, which one did you preferred? I see that Decimo seems to be from around 2012 or older, I wouldn't like to pay the same for an old model.

 

What is the difference of the italic and stub? Does the italic has the slant (left or right?)-- I suppose a medium or Broad is better modified to an Italic. I had ordered on Amazon, but saw that it was taking too long to be shipped, so I canceled. It worries me when I don't get fast shipment on Amazon.

 

The Decimo design is unchanged so you will not be able to tell the difference from one produced in 2008 with one made today. It's much thinner and lighter than a regular VP so the hand feel is very different. I can't say which one I prefer - I enjoy having both but the Decimo is more like writing with a pencil. While the regular VP is thicker, it's also heavier (made from brass) than your usual plastic bodied pens so bear that in mind. The Fermo, on the other hand, is the one I wanted to like but it was just a bit too clunky and the twist mechanism is not so easy to use with one hand.

 

An italic nib is a flattened end, if it's at an angle that's usually referred to as oblique. Italics are notable for their sharpness at the edges so you get a very large line variation between the horizontal and vertical strokes. This can make them scratchy. A stub is an italic nib that has had the corners rounded somewhat - this means it's much more comfortable to use as a daily writer and they are pretty smooth and not scratchy but perhaps at the expense of not so stark a line variation between horizontal and vertical. You will still get the line variation though but not the paper thin horizontal strokes of an italic.

 

Finally, I have bought 90% of my capless pens from Japan. It's usually cheaper but you have to be patient with the delivery. Amazon is great but you have to pay attention to the seller as if it's not Amazon themselves you can get wide and varied shipping. I usually only buy direct from Amazon or a seller that has fulfillment by Amazon.

Edited by Siv

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2752/4371168844_35ba5fb338.jpg

Danitrio Fellow, Nakaya Nutter, Sailor Sailor (ret), Visconti Venerator, Montegrappa Molester (in training), ConwayStewart Champion & Diplomat #77

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Well, guys, it arrived. Do you want to read my first impressions? Yes?

 

OK

 

I like it. I finally ordered the Medium with my Prime account from Amazon. Today I saw Pisuke2005 has a Fine at discount for $80: http://www.ebay.com/itm/141566158376 I wonder if it is a different version since I see a DR on the description.. Anyway, I digress.

 

My first impressions:

The weight is not as much as the comments I have read. It is, to me, a light pen, not a hefty one. What are you guys comparing it to? My Jinhao X750 has more weight to it!

 

The clip.

Sits perfectly in a place to guide my fingers so the nib is always where it should be. I have this problem witha a Parker 45, which has a hooded nib: Sometimes I try to write with the nib inverted because I don't see how the nib is positioned. The clip of the VP solves the problem. And it doesn't inconvenience my fingers. I welcome the clip and say BRAVO!

 

Nib SIze: (The Fine nib would have been too fine for daily writing, so I made a good decision.)

 

The M It is also not as BROAD as people say. I compared it to the Pilot Metropolitan M and it is exactly the same width. No problem there. Although with different inks, you will see that on the sample test below. I wrote 1.5 pages with it with a Diamine ink (Presidential Blue, which is a bland, inconsequential color) and found it a little dry, so I removed that ink and filled with Plikan 4000 Turquoise. Much better, but....

 

Check the circles I made and the big and short "S" or "8" or any name you assign to that scribble.

 

The up strokes are missing! In the big "S" not the small ones. The nib also goes dry when I make circles, in the opposite side of the movement. That is, If I make the lines of the circle clockwise, the lines on the LEFT will be dry. If I write counterclockwise, the lines on the RIGHT will be missing. Can anyone make this test with their VPs? I suspect a "blind point" or "dry point" on the nib when it is move din a certain way to make different shapes. It would be the same spot that causes the upward lines on the big "S" to go missing. This is a big disappointing, since now I know that I cannot make big gestures with this pens. A big S? Never. Circle? No!

 

Last but not least, the pen is not as long as I envisioned it. I think it may need some twicking to make it wetter, that's all. A funny thing, I found myself extending my left hand to "uncap" it!Habits are difficult to erradicate.

 

This is all for first impressions

 

 

Except for this other thing: The nib can not (IMHO) be said to be smooth. I just received a gift of a demonstrator "Lantern Green" color Jinhao from an eBay seller that I bought a dip nib from, which pens looks like a Lamy Safari. I inked it with Presidential Blue ( the first ink I used on the VP) and it rides like butter. Yes, that is why many times I reject the idea that expensier is better. We are buying mostly the look of a pen. And this is me ranting after trying the Jinhao. A considerable different experience in writing. Smooth like a Waterman.

 

Photos tomorrow if any one wants them, but is is the same Matte black VP you all have seen.

 

 

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/anangeli/PENS/Pilot%20Vanishing%20Point/PilotVPfirstimpression_zps58864a42.jpg

Edited by Oldtimer
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You're right that the nib might benefit from a more generous flow. Also, it could be that, at the left or right extremes of the circles, you're rotating the nib out of the sweet spot. This could be a consequence of your pen hold, which might tend to push the pen through wide arcs. To see what I mean, try deliberately rotating the pen as you write vertical lines.

These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives everything its value.--Thomas Paine, "The American Crisis", 1776

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I like it. I finally ordered the Medium with my Prime account from Amazon. Today I saw Pisuke2005 has a Fine at discount for $80: http://www.ebay.com/itm/141566158376 I wonder if it is a different version since I see a DR on the description..

 

The nib can not (IMHO) be said to be smooth. I just received a gift of a demonstrator "Lantern Green" color Jinhao from an eBay seller that I bought a dip nib from, which pens looks like a Lamy Safari. I inked it with Presidential Blue ( the first ink I used on the VP) and it rides like butter. Yes, that is why many times I reject the idea that expensier is better. We are buying mostly the look of a pen. And this is me ranting after trying the Jinhao. A considerable different experience in writing. Smooth like a Waterman.

 

The eBay item has a "special alloy" nib. That's why it's only $80.00. The same pen with an 18k nib costs more, but it is a different writing experience.

Edited by prf5
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You're right that the nib might benefit from a more generous flow. Also, it could be that, at the left or right extremes of the circles, you're rotating the nib out of the sweet spot. This could be a consequence of your pen hold, which might tend to push the pen through wide arcs. To see what I mean, try deliberately rotating the pen as you write vertical lines.

If that were true, it would happen with every pen I wrote, right? Or maybe with dry nibs? It happens only with this one. I will try what you say anyway.

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If that were true, it would happen with every pen I wrote, right? Or maybe with dry nibs? It happens only with this one. I will try what you say anyway.

 

Not necessarily; the sweet spot depends on the nib tipping/grind, and one's perception of it depends on how the pen is held. I think that for this pen the issue could arise because of the way the clip forces you to hold the pen, combined with the small size of the VP nib.

 

I tried writing large circles with one of my VPs, just using wrist action, and got the same skipping on one side. I do think this is the problem, and if it is, you might try to adjust your writing style so you don't swing the pen around as much. I know that's tricky if you're used to writing in a certain way. Alternatively, you could have a nib expert broaden the sweet spot.

These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives everything its value.--Thomas Paine, "The American Crisis", 1776

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Sorry.. This is not a problem with the way I write. It does it with a small "S" that I write normally with any pen and it only happens with the VP. I think I will have to return it or have someone try to fix this. i will try inserting a brass laminate between the tines if hat could help. BTW I found your music Those Who Mourn (for violin, cello and piano) enthralling! Will check the rest soon.

 

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/anangeli/PENS/VP%20Problem/vanishingPointTests_1568_zps1915f3c7.jpg

 

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/anangeli/PENS/VP%20Problem/7c68c1e4-1662-47ef-b98b-91c3283a1633_zpsed59b5fd.jpg

Edited by Oldtimer
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This is no turning of my hand, just up and down lines.

 

But I don't have to convince anyone here... Just the seller. Hope this does not turn into a battle of e-mails although I have returned items on the range of $600 to Amazon before with no problems. I don't think I whould wait so I am going to clean it thoroughly and start the return process. If anyone can offer to resolve the problem I am willing to listen to avoid a lengthy process.

 

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/anangeli/PENS/VP%20Problem/VPproblemdown_1569_zpsa9f74a6f.jpg

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Well, whatever the reason, the pen is just not working for you, so of course you can try to send it back. Out of curiosity, do you hold the pen almost vertically?

These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives everything its value.--Thomas Paine, "The American Crisis", 1776

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Well, whatever the reason, the pen is just not working for you, so of course you can try to send it back. Out of curiosity, do you hold the pen almost vertically?

 

Yeah, its not working for anyone!

 

No, I write on an angle, probably 45. I did try writing vertically and even with the nib inverted to see what happened. The pen is already packed and I will receive a new one on Saturday. If the second one is like that I will have to ask for the money back.

 

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