Tortoiseshell Id Help

[savingbirds]

Hey there everyone!

I recently acquired a vintage Pelikan from someone who couldn't properly ID the pen, and was wondering if you could help. I don't have a good camera on me, so this is the best that I can do:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/uploads/imgs/fpn_1421979976__img_20150122_212054.jpg

 

On the cap ring it has the markings: "PELIKAN 400 PELIKAN 400", which leads me to believe that it may be something like this: (https://www.picollecta.com/p/vintage-pelikan-400-brown-tortoise-in-original-box-14ct-nib-size-kef-near-mint-1001661515)

 

The end of the barrel (before the piston turning knob) has the imprint: "PELIKAN 400 GUNTHER WAGNER GERMANY"

 

The nib is marked:

Pelikan

585

14 KARAT

KEF

 

and it doesn't have the Pelikan logo.

 

Thanks for all the help!

[AndrewC]

You may find what you are looking for here. Rick is a Pelikan guru. Off the cuff, you have an older 400 model-like maybe pre 65, but this is just a wild guess. IIRC, K= "Kugel" which is a round/ball shaped nib great for all=purpose writing at speed, EF =extra fine.

[sargetalon]

It's a tortoiseshell brown 400 made 1951-54. The nib doesn't have the logo because those weren't introduced until '54. It should just have Pelikan written in script on it. The nib is an extra fine ball nib, rounded for ease of use at multiple angles. These are very nice pens. Congrats on the acquisition.

[Bo Bo Olson]

You have to measure...and show the cap top more...I can't tell if that is a '50's 400-400n or a '80-97 M400.

Because of the nib....rather rare, KEF I think '50-55....though the nibs can be swapped out. The nib should be rather flat under, but with a small ball on the top of the nib...so you can hold it and write like a pencil (pre-ball point) or hold it behind your big knuckle and write like a fountain pen. I have KM and KF nibs on other vintage pens of that era.

 

Many of the German pen makers of that era had stubbish....flat bottomed nibs, with out the American Bump under. No...no one filed off the Bump on the Bottom. As 'noobie' I'd thought so....glad I didn't toss those nibs.

 

Very fine pen.

In Tortoise I have a 400n, 500 (rolled gold cap) and a '90's M400.

 

The nib should be semi-flex or 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex which was normal back then. Use it with a light hand. That is not a "Flex" nib ....the tines only spread @ 3X a light down stroke.

To try to make it do more will spring the nib. The so called "Flex" nib which are really superflex, spread their tines 4-5-6 or even 7 X.

 

Semi-flex actually only gives you a bit of free flare with your script. The first letter will be a bit wider, perhaps half of the last...one can make a fancier crossing of the T. "Maxi-semi-flex", a bit more easy one can make a fancy stroke or two. That tad of flex makes the pen a wetter writer...if you want it drier use Pelikan 4001 inks.

 

Do look up in an italic calligraphy book, there is some 6 basic strokes you can learn to use with your nib to add a bit of fancy to your writing.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Bo Bo Olson

[sargetalon]

You have to measure...and show the cap top more...I can't tell if that is a '50's 400-400n or a '80-97 M400.

Because of the nib....rather rare, KEF I think '50-55....though the nibs can be swapped out. The nib should be rather flat under, but with a small ball on the top of the nib...so you can hold it and write like a pencil or hold it behind your big knuckle and write like a fountain pen. I have KM and KF nibs on other vintage pens of that era.

Very fine pen.

In Tortoise I have a 400n, 500 (rolled gold cap) and a '90's M400.

BoBo, I don't believe the barrel was stamped on the modern M400 and he states that his pen is stamped which leads me to believe that it is vintage. The nib is 50's vintage which would also be consistent and the piston knob doesn't look quite as round as the N.

[risingsun]

I agree with the 50s 400 identification, but isn't the cap ring supposed to be blank from this era?

[sargetalon]

Dan, the cap ring was blank on the earlier examples from the run. I have one that has a blank cap ring. As the run went on, they started imprinting the ring.

[risingsun]

Good to know - so I presume the 400N always has the imprints on the cap ring? This must be how some are able to narrow down the approximate year (+/-) for a vintage 400...

[DrCodfish]

For the OP:

 

Variations of models and eras for Pelikan pens are in many cases subtle and go unnoticed for many casual observers or novices such as myself.

 

Because I find that pics are helpful, I have this site bookmarked for easy reference. I always refer to it first, resolves most questions. For morer arcane detail, the crew here at FPN usually comes through (as can be seen in the foregoing discussion).

 

Nice pen! I find that 400's and the 100 series pens from this era are the sweet spot for me. I have several, and at least one is always in the rotation. A 400n is at the top of my list for 2015. They are out there but finding one at what I consider to be a reasonable price is the obstacle. Time is on my side.

[savingbirds]

Thanks for everyone's help! I'm somewhat experienced with semiflex nibs, so I'll take good care of the KEF!

 

Does anyone know what the "Günther Wagner" means?

[sargetalon]

Thanks for everyone's help! I'm somewhat experienced with semiflex nibs, so I'll take good care of the KEF!

 

Does anyone know what the "Günther Wagner" means?

.

 

He was a chemist and plant manager for the company. He took the company over in 1871 and was responsible for the Pelikan trademark.

[savingbirds]

.

 

He was a chemist and plant manager for the company. He took the company over in 1871 and was responsible for the Pelikan trademark.

Cool, thanks! I'll be enjoying this pen on National Handwriting Day! (I'll pretend to drive two hours across the border and be American for a day...)