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Chinese Pens & Fountain Pen Snobbery.


Ian the Jock

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I bought most of my high dollar pens with my yearly bonus I get at work so it does not affect my monthly income anyway.

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Sometimes it's not about "choice" alone though.

In life we have to prioritise, and as fountain pens or any other collectable/hobby item are in reality luxury items and need to be prioritised as such.

Certainly in my case there are be many, many things in the priority queue in front of "fancy pens", however, the fact that Chinese pens are very cheap, readily available and allow me to further enjoy my new hobby at very little cost, means that I can do so without having to sacrifice something else that I really can't afford to sacrifice, or is of a higher priority.

I'm not a keep up with the Jones's either and live my life to suit myself and my family, where of course my family always comes first, but If I can find a spare tenner every now and again to indulge myself with a few cheap fountain pens then that'll do for me.. :thumbup:

 

Ian

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I bought most of my high dollar pens with my yearly bonus I get at work ....

If I get a bonus at work, I do something similar. We split the bonus up, one third to be shared amongst the kids, one third each for my wife & me. And it's to be spent on 'Luxuries we wouldn't otherwise get'. Like a pricy pen, or a little statue ( http://www.statueforum.com/showthread.php?t=144195 ).

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

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I am not knocking people for buying Chinese pens, I too have a Hero fountain pen. I was just pointing out how interesting we "choose" or in another term "prioritize" how our money is spent. I was pointing to the fact that, at least in America people for not realize how much money they spend on things. Plus how our "needs" and "wants" have changed over the years. I know of family's who spend over $100 a month on cell phone bills. That's $1200 a year, that could be a very, very nice pen that will last longer than you can live. But just 10 years ago we had no want for a cell phone. Not knocking cell phones, just an example, and their are countless more.

 

I am not perfect by any means when it comes to managing funds, it just an observation.

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Just curious about how many people say they cannot afford anything other than a inexpensive Chinese pen, yet do they own a Tablet? Like an iPad or a Big screen tv? Those things cost anywhere from 150 to a couple of thousand. So if you can afford one of those why not more than 10 for a pen. I guarantee a Montblanc will last longer or be outdated in a year. It can become an heirloom to be handed down to your children. Modern TVs and tablets will never be heirlooms.

 

I just use Montblanc because most people are familiar with that brand, if I said Onoto, they might be Ono who?

With a phone, tv or tablet or whatever, there's generally a correlation between price and number of features that people want.

 

What are you getting extra in a pen costing £100+ compared to one costing about £10? Mostly it's an expensive brand name, more expensive materials, and a gold nib. None of which is going to make the pen write better or last longer etc..

Edited by WateryFlow
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True "we afford what we want to afford." But if you're just getting into fountain pens, £500 or so for a Nakaya, let's say, is a big big step - and you probably can't really see why you are getting your money's worth. It would be like getting a Ferrari as your first car - you start driving on something like a VW Golf, right?

 

And also, most of us want to try different pens, not just buy the One Pen To Rule Them All right away. Chinese pens let you do that, and do it out of cash flow or pocket money. A really good introduction to the world of the fountain pen, and you'll probably find one or two pens you want to keep for ever - maybe not all of them. I can't see what's wrong with that.

Too many pens, too little time!

http://fountainpenlove.blogspot.fr/

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With a phone, tv or tablet or whatever, there's generally a correlation between price and number of features that people want.

 

What are you getting extra in a pen costing £100+ compared to one costing about £10? Mostly it's an expensive brand name, more expensive materials, and a gold nib. None of which is going to make the pen write better or last longer etc..

You missed my point, I am not talking about feature was just pointing out people spend a lot of money on a lot of different things.

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True "we afford what we want to afford." But if you're just getting into fountain pens, £500 or so for a Nakaya, let's say, is a big big step - and you probably can't really see why you are getting your money's worth. It would be like getting a Ferrari as your first car - you start driving on something like a VW Golf, right?

I would have liked to have a Ferrari as my first car!

 

But I understand your point. I would never tell anyone not to buy any pen, from China or otherwise. You have to start somewhere. I personally started with a Monteverde and then I bought a Lamy, and then a Montblanc and the others but I have reached the acme with my Conway Stewart and Onoto pens.

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ROC is Republic of China / Taiwan. This is an entirely different entity from >>

 

PRC is the mainland People's Republic of China.

I have thirty PRC , mass production fountain pens. I am generally very satisfied,

regarding them as very good value. However, there is an issue with quality

control. The good ones are very good. The bad ones are a continuing annoyance.

 

I acquired four Jinhao x750 from different sources. There remain function unresolved

issues of function.

 

I bought a package of ten HERO 616 fountain pens. Seven are very good. Three

were thrown into the trash.

 

I propose that two good PRC pens, at the price of three, would still be excellent value.

 

There is a difference between copy and counterfeit. However, the largest objection, I think, is that the PRC government does not enforce, or cooperate with, international copyright / patents. The terms "Rogue" and "Pirate" are often appropriate.

 

Chinese fountain pens are excellent value. The price is a few dollars, and some

annoying frustration. They are worth it, over the short term. How many years will

a Jinhao nib labor before it fails ?

 

I like Janesville Parkers better than Shanghai Parkers. Call me a snob. I don't care.

Edited by Sasha Royale

Auf freiem Grund mit freiem Volke stehn.
Zum Augenblicke dürft ich sagen:
Verweile doch, du bist so schön !

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A phone, TV or tablet will be obsolete in 6 months. After 3 years, it's value will be a fraction of what you paid if anything. I got a few old cell phones, Palm Pilot (remember those?) sitting around that are next to useless. Now a nice fountain pen gets better with age and could last a lifetime.

Edited by max dog
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I was an early adopter of new technology, and I got my Palm Pilot III as soon as I could afford it, but there were no cheaper options to see if it would have been useful. Now almost every phone has the same features as the PDAs of years past.

 

With fountain pens I had less expensive options to see if I would enjoy the writing experience before dropping a lot of money on a Franklin Christoph. Additionally, I want to use them at work, and an expensive pen would not do well on the ambulance, so I need less expensive reliable pens for work. Sure, someday I'll get some finer pens that cost more, but for now I get what I can afford and plan for future purchases.

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....... What I am getting at is that people are quick to get all high and mighty over this perceived plagiarism despite the fact that it goes on in every country, but it gets press here because it is China, the whipping boy of the free West and an easy and comfortable target. I think it's a double standard quite frankly.

I agree.

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If I get a bonus at work, I do something similar. We split the bonus up, one third to be shared amongst the kids, one third each for my wife & me. And it's to be spent on 'Luxuries we wouldn't otherwise get'. Like a pricy pen, or a little statue ( http://www.statueforum.com/showthread.php?t=144195 ).

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

Hey, that's very cool.

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In America the term "made in China" hurts because most people see it as their manufacturing jobs have been taken away and sent to China. Plus Walmart sell such cheap junk, mostly from China that most Americans consider anything made their rubbish. ....

As one who by necessity, and sometimes by preference, shops at Walmart for both food and other items for the household and my children, I object to the pejorative tone and sweeping generalization against this store. It is not "rubbish," certainly from my point of view, that ends up on my dinner plates on on my children's backs.

 

I know that this isn't the point of this thread, but these sweeping generalizations, when stated here against a manufacturer or a country of origin, often begin more heated exchanges.

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Yeah, sorry Leejo, You have to understand that when a Chinese company copies a design and manufactures something very similar but with its own brand on it then it is stealing/cheating, BUT, when the same practice is done in other parts of the world its just called smart business sense. You'll get used to it.

 

 

HERE is a very short thread. The first post is worth reading.

I love the way you have put this. Truly when that practice is done (even here in the States), it is called smart business. I guess it depends on who is doing this that determines what group one falls in. I know I do so appreciate my Jinhao X750 & 599.

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I like the name "Ian". The hero of the novel I wrote and am currently editing is named "Ian".

 

As to the Chinese pens, it's a stereotype. When I was a kid, there were jokes about the quality of Japanese goods. You don't hear those jokes any more. And this whole thing about fountain pens is replayed with other goods. Several of the household goods I've bought on Amazon have entire discussions about whether they are of Chinese origin or not and whether the quality is suspect as a result.

 

Overall, I think Chinese goods are like those of other nationalities: they come in varying quality, and that quality varies by brand.

 

 

There are some concerns with Chinese manufacturers using designs of other manufacturers. Some on this forum may object to my saying this, but I see a difference between fakes and similar designs. I don't object to the latter.

 

But, what what will really set Chinese pens apart is when they start to create their own high quality pens and depend less on similar designs.

Proud resident of the least visited state in the nation!

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As one who by necessity, and sometimes by preference, shops at Walmart for both food and other items for the household and my children, I object to the pejorative tone and sweeping generalization against this store. It is not "rubbish," certainly from my point of view, that ends up on my dinner plates on on my children's backs.

 

I know that this isn't the point of this thread, but these sweeping generalizations, when stated here against a manufacturer or a country of origin, often begin more heated exchanges.

I was just trying to help those understand why Americans in general feel the way they do about things being made In China. There is no way to briefly comment on each and every item the Walmart sells. So you have to make sweeping generalations. I meant no offense to you or your family, and to each its own.

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.......

 

But, what what will really set Chinese pens apart is when they start to create their own high quality pens and depend less on similar designs.

What sets them apart, I think, is the volume of product that they sell. Whether or not a company sells high-end product or not seems irrelevant to me and seems entirely up to the company to decide without any moral or ethical component to it. You can make tools for common folk, you can make tools for wealthy folk, you can do both....I see no greater or lesser merit in either market, unless we start to get into forms of pride or specialism (or whatever term one might use). I certainly don't consider high-end collectors either above or below low-end users. Nor do I consider Chinese workers above or below, not meriting or undeserving, any more than any other worker on the planet, of a day's wage for a day's work. If they make an acceptable wage manufacturing knockoffs of other brands, and thousands of people around the world want to buy them even if only because they are cheap, then blessings and fortune to them. And the same for makers of hand-crafted works of art.

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What sets them apart, I think, is the volume of product that they sell. Whether or not a company sells high-end product or not seems irrelevant to me and seems entirely up to the company to decide without any moral or ethical component to it. You can make tools for common folk, you can make tools for wealthy folk, you can do both....I see no greater or lesser merit in either market, unless we start to get into forms of pride or specialism (or whatever term one might use). I certainly don't consider high-end collectors either above or below low-end users. Nor do I consider Chinese workers above or below, not meriting or undeserving, any more than any other worker on the planet, of a day's wage for a day's work. If they make an acceptable wage manufacturing knockoffs of other brands, and thousands of people around the world want to buy them even if only because they are cheap, then blessings and fortune to them. And the same for makers of hand-crafted works of art.

 

All true, but what I described is what will make Chinese pens accepted the way German or Japanese pens are now. Right or wrong, this is what it will take for Chinese pens to gain the acceptance of Japanese pens.

Proud resident of the least visited state in the nation!

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All true, but what I described is what will make Chinese pens accepted the way German or Japanese pens are now. Right or wrong, this is what it will take for Chinese pens to gain the acceptance of Japanese pens.

Whose "acceptance"? I think they have a lot of acceptance by a lot of consumers. My guess is in greater numbers than purchasers of Japanese pens. Maybe it's Japan that has some "acceptance" to work on. Unless you mean, "greater acceptance from those who already put greater value on Japanese products."

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