Help For This Onoto Pen

[migbotero]

I've got this Onoto pen and not sure about barrel material and approximate year of production.

I'm sure it is not a Minor, neither Magna, Mammoth, 2000, 3000, N, O, K models....but not sure if I can designate it as the "standard" model.

It is black chased but not sure if hard rubber or celluloid (no typical smell is recognized).

It is plunger filler, and measures approx. 139-140mm capped, 134mm uncapped and 180mm posted, with 16-17 grams of weight.

Although at the end there is a number 4601, I think it seems more similar to the 5600/6230 series (maybe this part was changed and is not from the original pen). Nib is 3/st (stub?).

I think it is from 30's to 50's but need to be more precise.

Could you please help me with your knowledge?

[PeterBeoworld]

It has the same nib as my 5601s and a similar shape. The clip is the same as my 6234. The Onoto numbering system seems to follow little in the way of order! We keenly await Steve Hulls definitive volume which may clear things up!

Very nice pen though. I may be wrong but I think yours will certainly be post 1930 and the question is whether it is pre or post WWII. I would guess pre but am happy to be proved wrong!

[Cob]

I have a 6233 which has the 3/st nib and the long section and twin cap bands the same as yours. I assume that one of the four digits refers to the colour; mine is green marbled. I also have a rose marbled Onoto numbered 5601; this one has a shorter section but the nib ( a broad oblique) carries the same 3/st designation.

 

The 6233 photo includes an unusual Croxley.

 

Cob

 

 

 

[richardandtracy]

The cap looks like an Onoto 6233 to me. The 4601 seems to have a single cap ring, and the cap has a taper in a similar manner to the 56xx series (see Cob's upper photo above, where the taper starts around an inch from the top of the cap). For a photo of a 4601, take a look here: http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/lovely-onoto-4601-fountain-pen There are other pens that look the same with the 4601 number on the web. All the 4601's I've seen on the web seem to have a #2 nib and short section too. So, I think it's a 6233.

 

As I understand it, most of the 623x's pre WW2 had ink view windows in the barrel. This was dispensed with post war, so I'd guess the pen is 1947 (when I think production got under way with a vengeance) to 1953 when I think the model was discontinued (or was it 1956?). HOWEVER, I don't think you'll get a definitive answer until Steve Hull's long awaited book is published.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[Cob]

I must be losing my marbles: I just checked, and the sections on the 6233 and 5601 are identical; the only difference is in the height of the clip screw and of course the clip and the cap bands !

 

Cob

[migbotero]

Thanks all of you, I agree with Richard about 6233, all of these I've found are exactly as mine:

-same clip design

-same nib 3/st

-same number of cap bands (2)

-same feed section length

-same capped length? (138-140mm) - but not sure

 

But 5601's identified have different clip design (small ball ended), one cap band, shorter feed section, and I think also a shorter capped length (134mm??).

So, I think that the end screw (with 4601 number) of my pen must be from another pen.

 

Do you think this pen (mine) is hard rubber or celluloid?

For date of production, I guess we need to wait for the new Stephen book to come, unless we could get brochures from 30's or 40's for these Onotos.

Your help is very appreciated.

[richardandtracy]

The plunger end will be hard rubber, as will the cap finial.

To decide on the body of the pen, you can rub it with your finger until it gets warm. If it smells like a car tyre when warm, it's rubber. If not, celluloid. I think it'll be celluloid.

The section will be celluloid.

 

I reviewed my 6233 here: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/173388-onoto-6233-blue-pearl-review/ Gives weights & dimensions for a direct comparison.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[migbotero]

Well, once rubbed I can get the "car tyre" smell. So, this is hard rubber, BCHR. There is not any ink window in the barrel (something introduced by 1937 in Onoto celluloid colored pens).

So, I don't think it is from 1950s, I suspect it was manufactured on 1930s (maybe contemporary to the first Magnas produced by 1937). And other option could be that many pens produced before WWII were stored and then re-introduced from 1946 to 1950?.

In this case I would consider that these pens are really from 1930s, although marketed in 1940s.

This is a very interesting exercise, and to be continued....

Another quest for my pen is to service the plunger mechanism and seals. I contacted with Peter Twydle from "The Pen Museum", and probably I will send him my pen after Christmas.

Do you have previous experience with this or other Onoto repairers?

Edited December 16, 2014 by migbotero

[Cob]

Well, once rubbed I can get the "car tyre" smell. So, this is hard rubber, BCHR. There is not any ink window in the barrel (something introduced by 1937 in Onoto celluloid colored pens).

So, I don't think it is from 1950s, I suspect it was manufactured on 1930s (maybe contemporary to the first Magnas produced by 1937). And other option could be that many pens produced before WWII were stored and then re-introduced from 1946 to 1950?.

In this case I would consider that these pens are really from 1930s, although marketed in 1940s.

This is a very interesting exercise, and to be continued....

Another quest for my pen is to service the plunger mechanism and seals. I contacted with Peter Twydle from "The Pen Museum", and probably I will send him my pen after Christmas.

Do you have previous experience with this or other Onoto repairers?

For Onoto repairs, I can recommend Peter Crook at Carneil Pens; he has done three of my Onotos and I have just sent him another, a very old one with over/under feed he will do the seals and is also going to make a new cap for it.

 

Cob

Edited December 16, 2014 by Cob

[richardandtracy]

Not to mention Eckiethump ( http://eckiethump.webs.com/ ) who restored my grandmother's gold sheathed 1924 hallmarked Onoto 3000. You can see the 'before' pic here: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/40712-request-for-info-on-onoto-pen/ and the after in the first picture here: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/240495-onoto-magna-classic-review-blue-gold-chased/

 

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[migbotero]

Thank you very much, Peter, Cob... and Richard (very good reviews of your pens).

Your help is highly appreciated.

 

I will consider your restorer's recommendation, as I want to see this pen in good working order (I dipped the nib just to know the line variation, hardness or flex of the nib).

It's a very nice piece from this historical brand, and I'll try to look for some other "sister" to adopt (Magna and maybe one older 3000, who knows...).

 

Regards,

[______Zaphod_Beeblebrox]

NICE! I would love to get a vintage Onoto like that one.

[Cob]

I have learned a lot here, especially from Richard's review which is a great piece of work. I was fortunate the other day to get a cheap 3000 (with the over/under feed) and also for the same very small price, a 2000 to keep my working 2000 company.

 

They can be found occasionally! The working 2000 has a nib which is really quite unexceptional really - obviously good, but a bit ordinary I should say and a bit on the firm side for my taste (it is not a stub which is a different matter of course). On the other hand, the 3000's nib is gorgeous and I am really looking forward to getting it back.

 

Cob

[richardandtracy]

I've been looking for an under/over feed 3000 at a reasonable price for ages (by this I mean approx. £10-£15), but haven't been that lucky yet.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[Cob]

I've been looking for an under/over feed 3000 at a reasonable price for ages (by this I mean approx. £10-£15), but haven't been that lucky yet.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

Well I paid £19 (broken cap) and I think I did very well indeed!

 

Cob

[richardandtracy]

It may be that I'm slightly tight fisted...

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[swanee]

Comparing my BCHR Onotos 5601 and 6233 clearly shows the tapered/finishing end of the section to be quite shorter, hence sharper, on the latter pen.

Plus there is a clearly marked subordinate numbering on the top end of the barrel of 8.7 after the 5601 and a 66. after the 6233.

All caps, rings, clips and nibs seem identical on both pens and the caps could be (possibly) interchanged, albeit a tad better fit on the original pen.

The 6233 also has a fill directional turn arrow on the knob.

Past dating search has, now arguably, given them both c.1948.