Hows Your Ethics On Fake Montblancs?

[Charles Rice]

Buying a fake is not a criminal act IMO.

When politicians lie and commit legitimate criminal acts which causes grievous bodily harm I don't hear you complaining. When someone has the intention to purchase A fake pen, all of a sudden it's Armageddon.

Heck, walking into a bank with a gun is not a crime either as I'm sure they gave the shaft to someone at sometime. I guess what old Jesse James did was just fine.

 

And no, I do not get any more excited about fake pens that any other fake. CDs, Watches, paper money - counterfeit/fake is a crime.

[dmwake]

Actually, now that I think about it, if there was a Chinese company out there producing near-perfect knock off Montblancs, you would think Montblanc itself might consider contracting the company directly to produce their parts for them and save a gazillion dollars. Just change their marketing to "assembled in Germany" rather than "made in Germany".

[jar]

This is turning out to be a very interesting thread.

 

All the comments are interesting and relevant. I guess the issue for me is, what are you buying when you pay lots of money for a Montblanc, if there are near knock-offs out there that look, feel and perform very similarly to the original product?

 

If you push aside the economic legalities and the intellectual copyright issues, why would any of us buy a Montblanc over a pen with a similar look, feel and performance that sells for $16.

 

Like I implied before, I'm interested in how Montblanc builds brand loyalty. Not so much the legalities of trademark violation.

 

When you have been using the fake for a half century and it still functions like new I might believe you, but I have never found a fake pen that really provides the feel and function of the original. Those that claim their $16.00 pens are as good simply have very low standards IMHO.

[sirgilbert357]

This is turning out to be a very interesting thread.

 

All the comments are interesting and relevant. I guess the issue for me is, what are you buying when you pay lots of money for a Montblanc, if there are near knock-offs out there that look, feel and perform very similarly to the original product?

 

If you push aside the economic legalities and the intellectual copyright issues, why would any of us buy a Montblanc over a pen with a similar look, feel and performance that sells for $16.

 

Like I implied before, I'm interested in how Montblanc builds brand loyalty. Not so much the legalities of trademark violation.

 

Reputation and perceived "status" of the brand. The same with all Veblen goods...of course you overpay for a luxury item -- that's part of what makes it *luxury*. And that luxury perception is the very thing causing you to seek out a *Mont Blanc* fake instead of just another good 16 dollar classic black fountain pen...

[dmwake]

Just looking on AliBaBa. There's Lamy knock offs available all over it for as low as 0.08c minimum buy 1000 units. There's also Montegrappa, Montblanc, etc etc. I guess with the rise of Alibaba, and those kind of prices, we'll see the market flooded with fakes of various quality over the next few years.

[Dickkooty2]

Buying a fake/replica … a product that has been made to imitate another as closely as possible

• the buyer knows it is a fake/replica and can enjoy it any way. Ethically questionable on the part of the buyer

• the buyer thinks it is the real thing. Alas, the buyer's ethics are not the question. The issue is his stupidity.

• the buyer knows it is a fake/replica and buys the fake/replica with intent to resell. Unethical.

 

Making a fake/replica … a product that has been made to imitate another as closely as possible

 

• the maker puts the product into distribution with no attempt to indicate that it is not authentic. Unethical

* the maker clearly labels the product as a 'replica' and puts it into distribution as a known condition to the buyer. Ethical

• the issues of patent or copyright infringement are legally defined. The issues of investment in brand-building,manufacturing start-up and distribution costs are economically determined.

• The issue of labor costa through the use of prison labor, child labor, or labor under inhumane conditions are most certainly ethical issues, as Mac and others well know.

 

​To me, the cost of labor is the manufacturer/ distributor greatest ethical responsibility.

 

The legal issues are being addressed through confiscation of goods. The start-up costa of engineering, machinery, and materials are his own business.

 

The buyer has a choice to make. Does he care enough about the source of labor to not make a purchase? We have seen this in the US at the grocery store with stoop-labor products and even the immigration question with cheap farm and service business labor.

[Charles Rice]

Well, I out of this one. Either you think buying a fake is just fine or you don't and an endless stream of words won't change anyone's mind.

[huy3825]

Heck, walking into a bank with a gun is not a crime either as I'm sure they gave the shaft to someone at sometime. I guess what old Jesse James did was just fine.

 

And no, I do not get any more excited about fake pens that any other fake. CDs, Watches, paper money - counterfeit/fake is a crime.

Walking into a bank with a gun is not a crime, assuming that you adhere to the gun laws in your local state/province/region. What you choose to do with that gun can constitute to a crime.

 

Do your eyes light up when you see cheap petrol/gas? If so, then you're supporting terrorism and war. Buying a fake is, if anything, a minor act.

Robbing a bank causes grievous bodily harm, whereas buying a fake causes no harm. I can't imagine anyone getting shot when a fake is bought.

 

Buying a fake is not the same as stealing, you are paying for a product with substandard properties compared to the authentic one. The difference in price justifies a poorer quality product.

 

For it to be a criminal act, that would mean that the legal system has documented your act, i.e. you were caught. You can say it was a criminal act all you like but if no-one has documented that act then it's a case of he said, she said. For it to be criminal, it would mean that your intention of purchasing the fake can be proven beyond reasonable doubt.

Edited November 26, 2014 by huy3825

[sirgilbert357]

Actually, now that I think about it, if there was a Chinese company out there producing near-perfect knock off Montblancs, you would think Montblanc itself might consider contracting the company directly to produce their parts for them and save a gazillion dollars. Just change their marketing to "assembled in Germany" rather than "made in Germany".

 

And what do you think that would do to their reputation? You're crazy if you think a luxury brand like Mont Blanc would do that to themselves. The perception of China made goods is still - for the most part - negative.

 

China can put out superb quality (Look at the iPhone), but it depends on the parent company's willingness to demand, and pay for, perfection. They also have to invest heavily in quality control (which is a whole separate ballgame) to ensure a very low percentage of defective product gets into the consumer's hands...

[sirgilbert357]

Well, I out of this one. Either you think buying a fake is just fine or you don't and an endless stream of words won't change anyone's mind.

 

You know what...you are exactly right. I'm done too.

 

On another forum I frequent (the focus is wristwatches), threads about fakes aren't even allowed. They are locked down upon creation...lol.

[PAKMAN]

Buying a fake knowingly is WRONG for several reasons.

 

1. You are encouraging the production of fakes.

 

2. You, or someone else may be tempted to pass it on as the real thing.

 

3. You are cheating the producer of the real thing.

 

I'm sure I could come up with more reasons. Heck, why not go out and pick up a box of phony $100.00 bills.

+1

[OcalaFlGuy]

"Once you get rid of integrity, everything else is a piece of cake."

-J. R. Ewing-

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

[LamyOne]

Hello All,

 

If you base your morals and principles on price (or even product quality); you are more to be pitied than hated.

 

Best regards,

 

Chris

Edited November 26, 2014 by LamyOne

[balson]

I do not own any MB,s but: I would not buy anything that is knowingly and intentionally being made to pass as something else, even if both I and the seller know it's an imitation. It may be very good, but I do not like to encourage production of items that try to cache in on someone else's success. Creating a recognized brand takes a lot of effort and yes, money. Imitating a brand is an attempt to make use of the existing hard-earned brand-recognition without putting any effort in it. And these things affect us subconsciously, even if we think we are not being affected.

 

There are definitely ethical questions to be raised about counterfeiting, but i think its false to say counterfeit goods made without effort. There is a lot of junk out there because junk is cheep to make so you are bound to see more of it. But many counterfeiters take pride in their work and how close they can get it to the original. And the best counterfeiters make work that is indistinguishable from the original. The value of the item they are copying determines how accurately they can reproduce it.

[LeonW]

Trolls everywhere. Why do we even take the bait?

[carlos.q]

I'm not really buying that a fake writes as well as a MB....

Well... Maybe... If its a fake MB ballpoint with a genuine MB refill it will write just as well.

 

Or just as bad. I find MB ballpoint refills simply awful!!!

[Freddy]

I want to thank everyone for the captivating read..............

 

Fred

two nothin's is nothin'....

....two half nothin's is a whole nothin'

~ Foghorn Leghorn

[redisburning]

Well, I out of this one. Either you think buying a fake is just fine or you don't and an endless stream of words won't change anyone's mind.

 

good.

 

your biggest contribution to this thread is equating buying a fake pen to armed robbery. Im sure we're all nazis for disagree with you too, since you seem to have jumped right on past the island of conclusions and gone all the archipelago of overrreaction.

 

back on topic, please don't buy fakes. then the people who make fakes will spend their effort on original designs. there are a ton of pens from countries where fake pens are produced that are of high quality that have original designs. it's just too bad the makers of the fakes dont have enough pride to make their own designs instead.

[katerchen]

I think you just Godwin'd the thread

[Z-Tab]

I'm definitely against counterfeit items. Those are made with criminal intent and are totally unacceptable to me.

 

Generic versions of name brand products are absolutely fine by me, as long as no patent holders are being cheated (and I don't think that there are many current patents on fountain pens). The Baoer 79 is unquestionably a clone of the Montblanc Starwalker, but anybody looking at it can plainly see that it is a Baoer. I think the ethical grey area is that whatever production line makes those Baoers is probably also responsible for a lot of the fake Montblancs out there.