Hows Your Ethics On Fake Montblancs?

[dmwake]

'Lo all..

 

I have two genuine Montblancs that write beautifully, as one would expect. One I've had for years, and one I bought just this week from a reputable online dealer I have used before.

 

Both, as one would expect, write beautifully.

 

I aso have a fake. One that I picked up for a few dollars in a market in Malaysia for a laugh.

 

It looks just like a real Montblanc, and even feels similarly weighted, but it's not the real thing.

 

Unless, of course, I scored a real discount bargain, and the other 50 or so similar pens in the box represented the opportunity of a life time!

 

But here's the rub: it writes just as well as my other Montblancs.

 

So, my questions here are;

 

1. What's your ethical thoughts about buying good fakes?

 

2. If a fake can look as good as a real Montblanc and write as good as a real Montblanc, why would you choose a real Montblanc over a $12 (very good) knockoff?

 

Just questions: happy for all kinds of responses.

 

NB: I'm also interested in the economics of this. I've got an article lying round somewhere where a prototype engineer gives an estimate that it would cost him about $16 for all the materials required to produce a very decent knock off of the 149. If I can find it, I'll scan it and post it as a PDF.

[Omnias]

Part of the issue I believe is whether the buyer and the seller knows that it is fake. If the buyer does not know but the seller does know, then there is a real problem. In the reverse scenario, then there is not much harm done.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Not fake...a too smooth and harmless word like 'replica' but counterfeit, the harsh real name, with built in value stolen. Like in, money, clothes, pens, 'instant' whiskey, perfume, shoes and everything else and everything else someone has made well enough to advertize into a brand name.

The jobs of real people are at danger.....Even if MB is over priced.

 

Of course that man can make the pen at home for $16. He's not paying German wages, €100 a cubic meter of warehouse cost, machinery, design departments and taxes.

 

MB does have to sell leather goods to survive. Too many counterfeits.

 

Hero at least waited for the patent of the Safari to end before making a Hero Safari.

 

Are you sure it writes just as good? Or it writes 'well'? Are you getting the smooth 'springy' tip, or just a nail...any one can make a smooth nail and do.

[LamyOne]

Hello DMWake,

 

I agree with Bo Bo on this; if I know it is a bootleg item, I avoid it. Along those lines, if it is a Chinese made item, (which most bootlegs are), I also try to avoid it for the reasons outlined in Posts #'s 12, 14 and 22/23 in this thread:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/274518-fake-lamy/

 

Best regards,

 

Chris

[casualmerlinconstant]

If the buyer knew it was fake, then that $10 probably wasn't going to go toward a real Mont blanc in the first place anyway. So probably not really that big a deal. If buyer paid MB prices for a fake, then its a bigger problem I think.

[Icywolfe]

What is a buyer wanted a fake MB?

 

For me it was the moment of me searching the web and coming across a fake MB. I said to myself "MUST HAVE!" 11 USD. Looks like a MB from a far but doesn't write good but once you get it started it works fine. It has a issue of hard starting but it more like hard starting taken to a whole new level.

[Chrissy]

I agree with Bo Bo on this too.

 

Be aware that Montblanc, like some other designer brand manufacturers, has not given their blueprints to China so that they can have their goods made by cheaper labour and still sell them at expensive prices. Their pens are still designed and made in Germany. Yes they are expensive, but so are most designer brands.

 

The problem is that people buy counterfeits at higher prices than they are worth, thinking that they are buying authentic branded goods. Then they are really shocked and disappointed when they find out that they have bought a cheap copy.

 

I'm not talking about people who should know what they are getting because they only paid $10 for it, and if they think they have an authentic item that was a bargain, then they are deluded. I'm talking about people who part with hard earned cash for an item they may have always wanted to afford, and maybe just saved a bit by buying it on ebay. These are the ones who get hit the hardest, and will probably be put off Montblanc and ebay for their lifetimes.

 

There are more fakes around on ebay, and on the Internet generally, than there used to be, and at this time of year they will be even more on offer, so be careful out there.

[Icywolfe]

There are fake Safaris. But where are the fake stuff for the JP big 3 brands? It's like they are left out. It can't be THAT hard to fake a 3776 or a Custom 74.

[georges zaslavsky]

no fakes, I only buy the real thing, same with swiss watches

[dmwake]

maybe a better way to put this hypothetical is:

 

Currently, the Chinese are producing outstanding clones of European and American products. The iPhone clone, for example is even better than Apple's model: same parts, but has the capacity to have two SIM cards. So they're getting good.

 

Let's say in the near future they produce a clones of all current Montblanc models, right down to the same quality materials, except they sell them at local markets for around $15 or so. You pick it up, you try it, and it writes just as well as a Montblanc.

 

If you inquire a little further, you find out that the factory that make the clones employs over 50 local craftsman and women and pays them fairly.

 

If the quality is just as good, and it's likely to last a lifetime because of this, and there's no sweatshop slavery involved, and it costs just a few dollars, what reasons would you have to buy a real Montblanc?

 

I think this is an interesting question, and has a lot to do with how brand loyalty is formed (something I'm interested in, and forums such as this are great examples of).

 

Cheers.

 

 

NB: I know there are a few other threads around similar to this, but none take quite the same tack regarding a quality clone.

 

Darren

Edited November 26, 2014 by dmwake

[Charles Rice]

Buying a fake knowingly is WRONG for several reasons.

 

1. You are encouraging the production of fakes.

 

2. You, or someone else may be tempted to pass it on as the real thing.

 

3. You are cheating the producer of the real thing.

 

I'm sure I could come up with more reasons. Heck, why not go out and pick up a box of phony $100.00 bills.

[Ste_S]

Not fake...a too smooth and harmless word like 'replica' but counterfeit, the harsh real name, with built in value stolen. Like in, money, clothes, pens, 'instant' whiskey, perfume, shoes and everything else and everything else someone has made well enough to advertize into a brand name.

The jobs of real people are at danger.....Even if MB is over priced.

 

Of course that man can make the pen at home for $16. He's not paying German wages, €100 a cubic meter of warehouse cost, machinery, design departments and taxes.

 

MB does have to sell leather goods to survive. Too many counterfeits.

 

Hero at least waited for the patent of the Safari to end before making a Hero Safari.

 

Are you sure it writes just as good? Or it writes 'well'? Are you getting the smooth 'springy' tip, or just a nail...any one can make a smooth nail and do.

 

The extra costs associated with manufacturing in Germany aren't that much higher. You could also probably argue that someone making a hand made pen at home is more expensive than factory produced.

 

By far the biggest mark up involved when buying a Montblanc is the amount they feel they can charge for the brand itself, and the overheads involved in keeping that brand 'Premium'. Hugh Jackman and all those boutiques don't come cheap for starters

[jar]

'Lo all..

 

I have two genuine Montblancs that write beautifully, as one would expect. One I've had for years, and one I bought just this week from a reputable online dealer I have used before.

 

Both, as one would expect, write beautifully.

 

I aso have a fake. One that I picked up for a few dollars in a market in Malaysia for a laugh.

 

It looks just like a real Montblanc, and even feels similarly weighted, but it's not the real thing.

 

Unless, of course, I scored a real discount bargain, and the other 50 or so similar pens in the box represented the opportunity of a life time!

 

But here's the rub: it writes just as well as my other Montblancs.

 

So, my questions here are;

 

1. What's your ethical thoughts about buying good fakes?

 

2. If a fake can look as good as a real Montblanc and write as good as a real Montblanc, why would you choose a real Montblanc over a $12 (very good) knockoff?

 

Just questions: happy for all kinds of responses.

 

NB: I'm also interested in the economics of this. I've got an article lying round somewhere where a prototype engineer gives an estimate that it would cost him about $16 for all the materials required to produce a very decent knock off of the 149. If I can find it, I'll scan it and post it as a PDF.

 

Buying fakes simply supports the industry that makes fake drugs, fake brake parts, fake airplane engine parts...

 

Buying fakes is both unethical and down right stupid.

Edited November 26, 2014 by jar

[fountainpagan]

No fake Montblancs, or anything. Moral stands.

[Morwen]

I do not own any MB,s but: I would not buy anything that is knowingly and intentionally being made to pass as something else, even if both I and the seller know it's an imitation. It may be very good, but I do not like to encourage production of items that try to cache in on someone else's success. Creating a recognized brand takes a lot of effort and yes, money. Imitating a brand is an attempt to make use of the existing hard-earned brand-recognition without putting any effort in it. And these things affect us subconsciously, even if we think we are not being affected.

[sirgilbert357]

The problem here is that the fake carries the emblem of the real thing. No one would care if that fake was made EXACTLY like a Mont Blanc down to the very last detail except that it didn't have the emblem. Without the snowflake, it would just be another black fountain pen. That emblem is the key. That emblem sells the real pen just as it does the fake ones. So the problem here is not that you're buying a 12 dollar Chinese produced pen, it's that the pen in question is passing itself off as something it's not. That's deception plain and simple. And it's using another brand's reputation to move a product that has absolutely zero association with the real brand. Even if you just buy it for laughs, again, it is only the snowflake on the cap that caused you to do so...

[Zookie]

If the seller (or maker) tries to pass it off as genuine, they should be prosecuted.

[Wolverine1]

I think the very question that the OP asks, is just plain stupid. Sorry, but it has to be said. It is totally unethical to buy or do anything to encourage the entire industry engaged in manufacturing fake items. I I cant afford something, I go without it, I dont go out and buy a fake.

[redisburning]

If you inquire a little further, you find out that the factory that make the clones employs over 50 local craftsman and women and pays them fairly.

 

 

In China?

 

lololololololololololololol ok.

 

sounds like you are looking for justification. there is none. in your impossible little scenario, that very same factory would still make pens that weren't counterfeits, of the same quality. if people like you who bought a fake (just going by your original post) didn't exist, they would not sell any of the fakes and would only focus on their original designs.

Edited November 26, 2014 by redisburning

[torstar]

I'm not really buying that a fake writes as well as a MB....