Uncertain About Safari Fine Nib Compared To Pilot Metropolitan Medium Nib

[AnneHW]

I'm fairly new to fountain pens. My husband bought a Lamy Safari years ago with a medium nib. I tried it several times, but never felt I could write very well with it. I have an art background and have always liked calligraphy, so I started dabbling with that and decided to try writing with a fountain pen again.

 

I bought an italic tip for the Safari and a Metropolitan with a medium tip. I love the feel of the Pilot Metropolitan, it's so smooth. The italic nib on the Safari made a big difference and it's my favorite because it's so easy to control and makes my penmanship look impressive!

 

I have read so many good reviews for the Lamy Safari I thought I'd try buying a fine nib one and I'm very disappointed. I keep reading about how smooth it is, but compared to the Pilot, it seems to be scratchy and I'm having a difficult time controlling my writing. If I'm careful and slow way down, I get better results, but it sure isn't living up to the great reviews.

 

Still, I'm wondering if it's just me. Is the Metropolitan that much smoother? Am I maybe not holding it correctly? Is it a matter of practice? I've tried looking at the tip of the nib through a loop and I can't see anything. I'd sure appreciate any ideas or thoughts. Thanks.

[lmarine0510]

I'm fairly new to fountain pens. My husband bought a Lamy Safari years ago with a medium nib. I tried it several times, but never felt I could write very well with it. I have an art background and have always liked calligraphy, so I started dabbling with that and decided to try writing with a fountain pen again.

 

I bought an italic tip for the Safari and a Metropolitan with a medium tip. I love the feel of the Pilot Metropolitan, it's so smooth. The italic nib on the Safari made a big difference and it's my favorite because it's so easy to control and makes my penmanship look impressive!

 

I have read so many good reviews for the Lamy Safari I thought I'd try buying a fine nib one and I'm very disappointed. I keep reading about how smooth it is, but compared to the Pilot, it seems to be scratchy and I'm having a difficult time controlling my writing. If I'm careful and slow way down, I get better results, but it sure isn't living up to the great reviews.

 

Still, I'm wondering if it's just me. Is the Metropolitan that much smoother? Am I maybe not holding it correctly? Is it a matter of practice? I've tried looking at the tip of the nib through a loop and I can't see anything. I'd sure appreciate any ideas or thoughts. Thanks.

It sounds like the Lamy nib probably just needs some smoothing on micromesh and then mylar paper. Those products can be bought from a variety of pen and pen part retailers online. My Pilot Metropolitan is one of the smoothest nibs, IMO Pilot has much better QC than Lamy when it comes to their cheaper products.

[siopaopei]

Sometimes the tines need a bit of adjustment to reduce the scratchiness of the nib. Did you make sure that the tines are aligned properly?

[mrmohitmishra]

If you are new to Fountain Pens, I would not suggest anything except a little tines adjustment. They should align perfectly. I have tried to repair a few pens of my own and ended up in ruining them.

I own both a Lamy fine and a Pilot Metropolitan Medium. Nib of Metropolitan is really smooth. But Lamy is a nice pen. It surely doesn't disappoint. Why don' t you see your local dealer. He will see about the problem. Or why don't you contact Lamy Customer Care. I am very sure you will get the number if you search net.

 

Fountain pens are instruments. Even in the best of brands there may be some defects. The best thing is too see a mechanic and in your case that is service centre, or any other expert.

 

Hope it was useful.

[AnneHW]

Thank you for all the feedback. I was thinking I might need to contact the owner of the store where I bought it. He's not close by, which is why I haven't. However, he owns a pen shop that is one of the oldest in our state and all he sells is pens, ink and a small amount of paper. I'm thinking he also does repairs. Maybe another reason I didn't want to go back was because I didn't want to be tempted to buy another pen! :-)

[TheRealScubaSteve]

The finer you go, the less smooth it will generally feel. There's a difference between scratchy and "feedback." Scratchy is towards tearing paper and feedback (as I feel it) is more like resistance - the fine nib falling into the nooks and crannies of the paper. You can quickly check the tine alignment with a magnifying glass or jeweler's loupe, which may be the issue as noted above. Alternatively, you may try a different paper and/or ink. Safari's run on the dry side in my experience, which also exacerbates the rough writing experience.

 

What ink and paper have you tried with it?

[AnneHW]

The finer you go, the less smooth it will generally feel. There's a difference between scratchy and "feedback." Scratchy is towards tearing paper and feedback (as I feel it) is more like resistance - the fine nib falling into the nooks and crannies of the paper. You can quickly check the tine alignment with a magnifying glass or jeweler's loupe, which may be the issue as noted above. Alternatively, you may try a different paper and/or ink. Safari's run on the dry side in my experience, which also exacerbates the rough writing experience.

 

What ink and paper have you tried with it?

This actually makes sense. And, I'm using a very inexpensive paper, but again, the Metropolitan writes wonderfully on it. I tried both pens on some Fabriano and it honestly was similar to the other paper. My husband called the pen store and they wanted $15 to "smooth" the fine nib. We paid $13 for the Lamy italic nib, so that seems like a lot, especially when it's a 2-hour drive. Otherwise, we've been lucky to live near a couple of university bookstores that carry a number of fountain pens. But the downside is there seems to be no one working there who knows anything about them! It makes me wonder how they know what to buy.

 

So maybe it's me and I'm just not going to be happy with the Lamy fine nib.

[AnneHW]

Oh, and I just needed to add that the Metropolitan's medium nib looks the same as the Lamy fine nib, if that makes sense.

[TheRealScubaSteve]

$15 is a pretty standard fee for nib smoothing. Some charge more than that. I'd invest in some micromesh and mylar and learn to smooth it yourself. It's quite a simple job. Cheap $2 Chinese pens are great for practicing.

[ac12]

Oh, and I just needed to add that the Metropolitan's medium nib looks the same as the Lamy fine nib, if that makes sense.

 

Yes, this is because there is no industry standard of what the nib sizes mean. Each company defines their nib size as they choose.

So yes a Lamy F could and does write a line like a Pilot M.

And a Lamy XF writes like my old US Parker F.

 

Check to see if there is a pen club or 'pen posse' near you. That is the best way to get first hand info about pens and help with things like nib alignment and smoothening.

 

As for the smoothness, this is affected by several variables, any one of which could turn a smooth writer into a scratchy/draggy writer. These variables are: the pen, the ink, the paper.

 

1 - Pen

This refers to the the nib and feed of the pen.

1a - the tip of the nib could be mirror smooth or somewhat less than that smooth. Smoother tip = smoother writer.

1b - The shape of the tip, affects smoothness. Some tips have smooth bottoms, but have sharp edges, and it is the edges that catches and scratches at the paper.

1c - But also the nib/feed can be wet or dry and any place in between. wet and dry refers to the ink flow out of the pen. Wet = easy and lots of ink flowing, dry = not much ink flowing. A wet pen puts down more ink, so you have more lubrication between the nib and the paper. A dry pen puts down less ink, so you have less ink to lubricate the nib.

1d - the size of the tip. The small tip of a XF nib will follow the texture of the paper a lot more than the larger tip of a M or B nib. What this means is, if the paper has texture, the XF nib will feel it. Whereas the wider M or B nib will ride over the small textures.

2 - Ink

2a - see item 1c above.

2b - inks are wet (very fluid, such as Waterman) to dry (less fluid, such as Pelikan).

2c - The wet/dry ink interacts with the wet/dry characteristic of the pen. A wet ink in a wet pen will put a LOT of ink onto the paper. A dry ink in a dry pen will put very little ink on the paper. The less ink on the paper, the more drag there is on the nib, due to less ink to lubricate the nib.

 

3 - Paper

3a - see item 1d above.

3b - With a F or XF nib, you need a HARD SMOOTH paper, or the nib will feel scratchy as the small tip follows the texture of the paper.

3c - There are some paper that I have rejected and gave to my nephews for their kids to use. Because the feel of writing on them with a F nib is so bad that I cannot stand to write on that paper. The kids can use their crayon on the paper.

[Runnin_Ute]

ac12 made some great points that almost reads like a primer for newbies. (or others)

 

Sometimes even a good paper with the wrong nib/ink combination can feel rough.

[mrmohitmishra]

 

Yes, this is because there is no industry standard of what the nib sizes mean. Each company defines their nib size as they choose.

So yes a Lamy F could and does write a line like a Pilot M.

And a Lamy XF writes like my old US Parker F.

 

Check to see if there is a pen club or 'pen posse' near you. That is the best way to get first hand info about pens and help with things like nib alignment and smoothening.

 

As for the smoothness, this is affected by several variables, any one of which could turn a smooth writer into a scratchy/draggy writer. These variables are: the pen, the ink, the paper.

 

1 - Pen

This refers to the the nib and feed of the pen.

1a - the tip of the nib could be mirror smooth or somewhat less than that smooth. Smoother tip = smoother writer.

1b - The shape of the tip, affects smoothness. Some tips have smooth bottoms, but have sharp edges, and it is the edges that catches and scratches at the paper.

1c - But also the nib/feed can be wet or dry and any place in between. wet and dry refers to the ink flow out of the pen. Wet = easy and lots of ink flowing, dry = not much ink flowing. A wet pen puts down more ink, so you have more lubrication between the nib and the paper. A dry pen puts down less ink, so you have less ink to lubricate the nib.

1d - the size of the tip. The small tip of a XF nib will follow the texture of the paper a lot more than the larger tip of a M or B nib. What this means is, if the paper has texture, the XF nib will feel it. Whereas the wider M or B nib will ride over the small textures.

2 - Ink

2a - see item 1c above.

2b - inks are wet (very fluid, such as Waterman) to dry (less fluid, such as Pelikan).

2c - The wet/dry ink interacts with the wet/dry characteristic of the pen. A wet ink in a wet pen will put a LOT of ink onto the paper. A dry ink in a dry pen will put very little ink on the paper. The less ink on the paper, the more drag there is on the nib, due to less ink to lubricate the nib.

 

3 - Paper

3a - see item 1d above.

3b - With a F or XF nib, you need a HARD SMOOTH paper, or the nib will feel scratchy as the small tip follows the texture of the paper.

3c - There are some paper that I have rejected and gave to my nephews for their kids to use. Because the feel of writing on them with a F nib is so bad that I cannot stand to write on that paper. The kids can use their crayon on the paper.

[rwilsonedn]

This may not be all that complicated. Lamy is known to permit very lax quality control on their nibs. The width varies all over the place, and the smoothness and alignment are not closely watched, despite their claims to do 100% final inspection of nibs. They are known to have even shipped nibs in which the slit was never cut, and which could physically not function as pens. So your experience with the Lamy F nib is not surprising, and it is not you. If you bought a half dozen F nibs, you would probably find each one different, with one or two quite nice ones and one or two quite bad.

Pilot is in another league in terms of writing quality.

ron

[AnneHW]

I'm so glad I joined this group because the information is fantastic. I want to stamp a "like" on all the answers and feedback. And, especially ac12, thank you for taking the time to provide all the technical information. I know I'll be referring back to it!

[AnneHW]

This may not be all that complicated. Lamy is known to permit very lax quality control on their nibs. The width varies all over the place, and the smoothness and alignment are not closely watched, despite their claims to do 100% final inspection of nibs. They are known to have even shipped nibs in which the slit was never cut, and which could physically not function as pens. So your experience with the Lamy F nib is not surprising, and it is not you. If you bought a half dozen F nibs, you would probably find each one different, with one or two quite nice ones and one or two quite bad.

Pilot is in another league in terms of writing quality.

ron

So, just wondering why they get such lavish reviews? Are they considered a beginner's pen because of the price? Thanks.