Clip Imprint Question

[crescentfiller]

Hello. I have a Montblanc Solitaire 144. I believe it is from the 1980s and I believe it is gold-filled. It is in the barley pattern.

 

I am wondering about the lettering on the clip ring. GERMANY is stamped/engraved on the back of the clip ring, but the "Y" in GERMANY is not in the same typeface as the other letters. It looks sort of like the first one below, rather than the second one:

 

GERMANy

 

GERMANY

 

I have a 1980s 146 and the Y is like the second one, as it is on a black 144 I have. On these two fountain pens, the clip ring engraving is very fine, while the gf 144's imprint is not at all fine or crisp. I tried to take a photo that would show the lettering, but I couldn't get a decent one. I've included one all the same, but apologies for the lousy quality. Can anyone tell me if this imprint is ok?

 

Thanks,

Daniel

[jar]

Why do you think the 144 is a Montblanc?

[crescentfiller]

Jar, That is what I am trying to determine.... Would you be willing to say why you think it isn't (or is)?

 

Thanks,

Daniel

[jar]

Well it's near impossible to tell anything from the pictures but the weird "y" and very poorly done barley corn would certainly make me want to look further.

[crescentfiller]

Well, perhaps others will check their pens to see if any have such a Y on the clip ring.

Also, if it is from the 1980s, should the imprint be W. GERMANY rather than just GERMANY ?

[zaddick]

Well, perhaps others will check their pens to see if any have such a Y on the clip ring.

Also, if it is from the 1980s, should the imprint be W. GERMANY rather than just GERMANY ?

Early 1980s would normally just say Germany.

[crescentfiller]

What about the shape/style of the Y ?

[ihimlen]

I was the seller of this pen so I thought I'd better chime in - here are some more photos of the same pen that will hopefully shed some more light on this 144 - any thoughts? This is a vintage MB so I don't believe it could actually be faked, but nonetheless I'd rather clear up any doubts...

i.
http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii553/ink3ys/1980%20Montblanc%20144%20Solitaire/DSC08872_zpsa0b895a2.jpg

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii553/ink3ys/1980%20Montblanc%20144%20Solitaire/DSC08874_zpsf0c0f08c.jpg

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii553/ink3ys/1980%20Montblanc%20144%20Solitaire/DSC08875_zps0f0e11f9.jpg

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii553/ink3ys/1980%20Montblanc%20144%20Solitaire/DSC08876_zpsd5675934.jpg

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii553/ink3ys/1980%20Montblanc%20144%20Solitaire/DSC08880_zps4fce637e.jpg

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii553/ink3ys/1980%20Montblanc%20144%20Solitaire/DSC08885_zpscd508f9e.jpg

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii553/ink3ys/1980%20Montblanc%20144%20Solitaire/DSC08892_zps1f15bee8.jpg

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii553/ink3ys/1980%20Montblanc%20144%20Solitaire/DSC08895_zpsfb36961a.jpg

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii553/ink3ys/1980%20Montblanc%20144%20Solitaire/DSC08897_zps43a1380f.jpg

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii553/ink3ys/1980%20Montblanc%20144%20Solitaire/DSC08904_zps7a725b0b.jpg

Edited December 5, 2014 by ihimlen

[jar]

I was the seller of this pen so I thought I'd better chime in - here are some more photos of the same pen that will hopefully shed some more light on this 144 - any thoughts? This is a vintage MB so I don't believe it could actually be faked, but nonetheless I'd rather clear up any doubts...

Why do you call that a vintage MB? It looks like the modern 144 and certainly not like a vintage one?

[ihimlen]

I guess it depends on how one defines vintage. To some 1980s sounds like an ancient bygone era and to others...er, not so much so it's pretty much horses for courses on that one.

[jar]

I guess it depends on how one defines vintage. To some 1980s sounds like an ancient bygone era and to others...er, not so much so it's pretty much horses for courses on that one.

 

But when it comes to Montblanc pens it is an important distinction. There really are vintage 144s and there is no similarity between those and what you show. A vintage 144 will be a two stage piston filler with a screw cap, wider bodied with a concave section and made from celluloid.

 

What you show is just the modern cartridge/converter entry level 144.

[ihimlen]

Well... semantics aside, there is always an option to use a date to avoid any doubts. This is a 1980s 144 and you are talking about a 1950s celluloid 144 with a telescopic piston filler. Either way, for the sake of argument (and to end the OT) let's just settle with

 

 

the modern cartridge/converter entry level 144.

 

if that works better for you.

 

Best,

 

i.

Edited December 5, 2014 by ihimlen

[crescentfiller]

The photos are nice, but the photo of the clip-ring imprint excludes the portion of the word in question. Indeed, not only the Y, but also the N, which seems a bit askew. My camera is on the fritz, so I am unable at present to show what I mean. I hope to take a photo shortly.

 

Best,

Daniel

[ihimlen]

The photos are nice, but the photo of the clip-ring imprint excludes the portion of the word in question. Indeed, not only the Y, but also the N, which seems a bit askew.

 

 

These were the only photos I could access away from home - here are two more images (extracts from other photos of the pen):

 

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii553/ink3ys/GERMANY/DSC08881_zps73cbc0f6.jpg

 

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii553/ink3ys/GERMANY/DSC08880_zps10cde8cd.jpg

 

I edited them to show as much detail as possible.

 

Purely by chance, I found another MB in Sterling Silver on FPN with (seemingly) the same kind of imprint:

 

Edited image here:

 

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii553/ink3ys/GERMANY/fpn_1417089839__foto10bis_zps603675f0.jpg

 

...and the actual pen can be found here (post no. 373 on this page ) so it may be worth to compare notes on imprint with idazle

 

Given that these are 80s models, on both clips the imprints [GERMANY] are stamped (rather than laser-etched like on the later models) so they are probably not as pretty as on the current 14x series and may appear to be a bit more shoddily applied. I guess the authorised retailer can verify the pen beyond any reasonable doubt but I don't suppose anyone making fake MBs would care enough to produce a fake 144 with a 18k gold nib...

 

All best,

 

i.

[Mister Mont Blanc]

To me, the imprint looks like it would be authentic and to me, the reasoning for the different look of the letter Y is because of it being a different letter and how it's shaped. I don't see anything fishy about it, it just looks different because of how they designed it to fit within the stamp. The base of the Y slants to the left instead of going straight down.

 

The only comment I have is that I've mainly seen the "Germany" stamping/engraving to the left of the clip and not in the back of the clip ring. But others may have seen this pattern more.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Mister Mont Blanc

[crescentfiller]

Mister Mont Blanc, Thank you for your insights. I am definitely not casting any aspersions on the seller, I just find the imprint to be odd. I've handled quite a few Montblancs over the past 25 years or so, albeit mostly vintage pens, and own just three at present (1980+). I've just never seen an imprint like this. The N is slightly askew and larger than the M, and the slope of the Y seems inconsistent with the typeface.

 

If anyone else has a similar pen, will you check and see if yours has the same Y?

 

Thanks!

[Inked]

I've looked at 5 or 6 older MB's I have and not one of them is "exactly" the same.

 

A 149 with tri-tone 14C nib has a y that is even a little more unusual than yours.

 

A 149 with a Tri-tone 18C is also an usual stamping of a Y.

 

A 149 two-tone 14C is a perfect Y.

 

Looks like the Y may have been tough to stamp at one time.

 

Thanks for bringing this up as I probably would not have noticed this great little quirk in older MBs.

 

Now the quest is to get a 1965 149 with a perfect Y.

 

Kidding.

 

Inked

[crescentfiller]

Thanks for the research and the report Inked!

 

 

Best,

Daniel

[Chrissy]

ihimlen, your pen looks authentic to me. That feed type matches the monotone gold nib

[CS388]

ihimlen, your pen looks authentic to me. That feed type matches the monotone gold nib

 

I concur. The photographs you provide show a genuine pen. Looks like a nice example, too.

(But 'Vintage 144' does refer to the earlier celluloid model, as pointed out, already)

 

The photos are nice, but the photo of the clip-ring imprint excludes the portion of the word in question. Indeed, not only the Y, but also the N, which seems a bit askew. My camera is on the fritz, so I am unable at present to show what I mean. I hope to take a photo shortly.

 

Best,

Daniel

 

Daniel, none of my pens have the dodgy 'Y'. But I've seen a few dodgy 'R's and 'U's etc. in my time. Even saw an example (on this forum) where the Meisterstuck bands were upside down! Your's is probably just a mis-timed or mis-aligned stamp on the production line? I wouldn't worry. It looks good. Hope it writes well.

 

Enjoy.