Gripes About Feeds: Fins And Feed Holes

[sirgilbert357]

OK, I'll admit I don't really understand why feeds have fins on the underside of them. They seem rather pointless as I see plenty of pens that do not have these. So every time I fill a pen with the fins (looking at you Pelikan and Esterbrook), I have to wipe the fins clean of residual ink...which, uh, is a waste of ink in my opinion. A few drops goes a long way and all that...anyway, what's the point of the fins??!!

And on a recently acquired Esterbrook, I am having issues with ink very slowly leaking somewhere from the nib and filling those fins up. When they get to the point where they cant hold any more ink, a drop falls and hits the page. I'm a bit surprised the underside seems so full of ink because it doesn't write too wet or anything. Whats going on there?? I put some silicone grease on the nib's threads and screwed it back in, making sure it was well seated, but it does it still...I very highly doubt its the pen...so whats wrong with the nib and how do I fix it?

 

And feed holes...arrgh, feed holes...seriously, why do they have to be so far up the nib...why can't they be right at the very end of the feed. I'm beginning to dislike having to partially submerge my section to make sure the pens ink up correctly...isn't this part of what the Sheaffer Touchdown was trying to eliminate? I think I read somewhere that they put the feed intake hole at the very end of the nib...or am I thinking of another pen?

Edited November 21, 2014 by sirgilbert357

[CaseyK]

The Sheaffer you are thinking about is called a Diptip. Basically it is a snorkel without the snorkel tube. It does use the Touchdown filling method but not all Touchdowns are DIPtips.

 

I don't know what kind of pen you have but those fins are meant to collect excessive ink. If the fins are filling up and the ink then drips out, the problem is probably with an air leak in the filling system, apparently not with the threads of the nib.

[AG_ORD]

Aloha sirgilbert357,

 

From my meager understanding, the function of the comb feed is increasing the surface area, facilitating the capillary action of drawing ink from the reservoir to the nib. It also acts as an excess storage area, allowing excess to accumulate and creating a buffer so when you write, ink flow doesn't have to stop as it draws more ink from the reservoir.....kind of like RAM, which allows you quicker acces without having to constantly go back to the main HD.

 

Richard Binder's site as a plethora of information regarding the mechanics of fountain pens. If you haven't perused it yet, I highly recommend it: richardspens.com.

 

Good luck and good writing.

[kestrel]

OK, I'll admit I don't really understand why feeds have fins on the underside of them. They seem rather pointless as I see plenty of pens that do not have these. So every time I fill a pen with the fins (looking at you Pelikan and Esterbrook), I have to wipe the fins clean of residual ink...which, uh, is a waste of ink in my opinion. A few drops goes a long way and all that...anyway, what's the point of the fins??!!

And on a recently acquired Esterbrook, I am having issues with ink very slowly leaking somewhere from the nib and filling those fins up. When they get to the point where they cant hold any more ink, a drop falls and hits the page. I'm a bit surprised the underside seems so full of ink because it doesn't write too wet or anything. Whats going on there?? I put some silicone grease on the nib's threads and screwed it back in, making sure it was well seated, but it does it still...I very highly doubt its the pen...so whats wrong with the nib and how do I fix it?

 

And feed holes...arrgh, feed holes...seriously, why do they have to be so far up the nib...why can't they be right at the very end of the feed. I'm beginning to dislike having to partially submerge my section to make sure the pens ink up correctly...isn't this part of what the Sheaffer Touchdown was trying to eliminate? I think I read somewhere that they put the feed intake hole at the very end of the nib...or am I thinking of another pen?

As you hold the pen to write the heat from your hand causes air in the sac to expand which pushes ink downward. Older vintage pens with simple feeds tend to burp ink as they get near empty, like eyedroppers, because the initial volume of the air in an almost empty sac allows for greater expansion. None of my Esties exhibit such uncouth behavior. I suspect you have a leaking sac or an improper seal between the sac and the section. All it takes is an almost invisible pinhole. Has the sac been replaced recently? If not, the sac could be 60 years old and more than a little cranky, like me. It needs to be replaced. If it has been replaced recently you might have a defective sac. Let us know what you find out.

[scully012]

Pens, especially those that are eyedropper or piston fillers end up with a lot of air in them as the ink is used up. This creates an interesting situation because as the air in the pen expands, it pushes the ink out of the pen. To correct this, feeds are designed so that the fins catch the extra ink without it spilling out. For example, I live in an area where it frequently snows. If I were to walk outside with a piston filler on my pocket (which happens often), the air inside the pen will get very cold and contract. When I go to use the pen later my hands will warm the air, expanding it and pushing ink out. When this happens, I can easily see that the fins are empty at the beginning (when the pen is cold) and they fill as the pen warms up. This extra space for the ink to go allows the pen to continue writing evenly without leaking onto the page.

[sirgilbert357]

As you hold the pen to write the heat from your hand causes air in the sac to expand which pushes ink downward. Older vintage pens with simple feeds tend to burp ink as they get near empty, like eyedroppers, because the initial volume of the air in an almost empty sac allows for greater expansion. None of my Esties exhibit such uncouth behavior. I suspect you have a leaking sac or an improper seal between the sac and the section. All it takes is an almost invisible pinhole. Has the sac been replaced recently? If not, the sac could be 60 years old and more than a little cranky, like me. It needs to be replaced. If it has been replaced recently you might have a defective sac. Let us know what you find out.

 

Hmm. Both Esties are recently restored. I will consider contacting the seller. I was just *sure* it was a nib that needed adjusting...lol.

[sirgilbert357]

The Sheaffer you are thinking about is called a Diptip. Basically it is a snorkel without the snorkel tube. It does use the Touchdown filling method but not all Touchdowns are DIPtips.

 

I don't know what kind of pen you have but those fins are meant to collect excessive ink. If the fins are filling up and the ink then drips out, the problem is probably with an air leak in the filling system, apparently not with the threads of the nib.

 

Ah, thank you!

[sirgilbert357]

OK, so that answers some of my questions about the feed fins, but why is the feed hole so far up the nib? Is it there for a technical reason too? It would seem to make more sense if it were closer to the bottom of the feed, or at least even with the breather hole on the nib. Its weird to me that you have to basically submerge part of the section to ink a pen.

[rafapa]

OK, so that answers some of my questions about the feed fins, but why is the feed hole so far up the nib? Is it there for a technical reason too? It would seem to make more sense if it were closer to the bottom of the feed, or at least even with the breather hole on the nib. Its weird to me that you have to basically submerge part of the section to ink a pen.

I believe some Pilot pens have the hole around the middle of the feed,

[sirgilbert357]

Well, I have fixed the leaky nib!! No more feed full o' ink. So, I do indeed have the 9 series nib with the v notch at the tip of the feed. That notch appears to be the same channel cut into the end of the feed that goes into the pen. I'm guessing this channel feeds the breather hole area with ink and also functions as the channel that sucks ink up into the pen? If so, then there's really no reason to fully submerge the pen nib (and part of the section!) while filling, but anyway...

 

The way I fixed this is simple. I was cleaning the nib off with a paper towel and noticed that the ink was seeping out from between the feed and the green collar the feed is jammed into. So I used a push pin to very precisely put a tiny amount of silicone grease in that tiny crevice between the feed and the collar. I noticed two trouble spots like this, so I did this to both. I then filled the pen with ink from a syringe instead of the traditional way, re-installed the nib and scribbled until it began to write. I've written about a page and no sign of the leak! It also no longer has hard starting issues. I guess the ink flow was being directed to the underside of the feed, so it would hesitate to write when first using it. But that has gone away now...maybe this will help someone else in the future; I'll probably post it in the Esterbrook forum. Anyway, not sure how permanent the silicone grease will be, I'm betting I have to re-apply from time to time, but I might eventually find a better substance that would be permanent...

Edited November 22, 2014 by sirgilbert357

[Buzz_130]

With an Esterbrook J, you also have another option. Now might be the time to look at the incredible array of nibs available to you as many dealers will sell NOS nibs. Since you have already syringe-filled your pen, you know exactly how easy it can be to swap out Estie nibs. You'll find an incredible number of options, and certainly a new nib will help you troubleshoot any further issues with your pen.

 

Buzz

[mirosc]

So every time I fill a pen with the fins (looking at you Pelikan and Esterbrook), I have to wipe the fins clean of residual ink...which, uh, is a waste of ink in my opinion.

 

When I fill my pens, I make sure to drop two or three droplets of ink back into the bottle and then turn the pen around (nib up) and turn the knob / release the lever fully. So most of the ink in the feed gets sucked into the pen - less to wipe away.

[jar]

OK, so that answers some of my questions about the feed fins, but why is the feed hole so far up the nib? Is it there for a technical reason too? It would seem to make more sense if it were closer to the bottom of the feed, or at least even with the breather hole on the nib. Its weird to me that you have to basically submerge part of the section to ink a pen.

 

What is a "feed hole"?

 

I bet you are talking about the hole at the very end of the slit that makes the tines. But it is NOT a feed hole. It is to relieve stress and keep the split from extending.

 

Many pens fill best when the whole nib is submerged in fact.

 

Ink is cheap. The amount you waste wiping the pen down is so trivial it is not worth considering.

[sirgilbert357]

With an Esterbrook J, you also have another option. Now might be the time to look at the incredible array of nibs available to you as many dealers will sell NOS nibs. Since you have already syringe-filled your pen, you know exactly how easy it can be to swap out Estie nibs. You'll find an incredible number of options, and certainly a new nib will help you troubleshoot any further issues with your pen.

 

Buzz

 

Yeah, the two nibs I got were basically brand new...not sure if they have been inked or not, so maybe not true NOS, but they sure looked it to me. The issue is gone, so certainly not an issue with the pen itself or the restoral that was performed on it. I am always on the lookout for more Estie nibs. Later this week, I plan to research what other nibs will fit the Esties so I have options beyond just Esterbrook nibs (surely there are other brands that also fit?).

[sirgilbert357]

 

What is a "feed hole"?

 

I bet you are talking about the hole at the very end of the slit that makes the tines. But it is NOT a feed hole. It is to relieve stress and keep the split from extending.

 

Many pens fill best when the whole nib is submerged in fact.

 

Ink is cheap. The amount you waste wiping the pen down is so trivial it is not worth considering.

 

No, the hole at the end of the slit is the breather hole. I'm talking about the other hole that most nibs have in their feed. It is sometimes up close to where the feed inserts into the collar of the nib, but in this case, I was mistaken -- it is actually at the end of the nib on the particular 9 series Esterbrook nibs I have. On my Pelikan, it is somewhere in the fins, close to the collar as best I can tell (its tactfully hidden I think) and on my Pilot 78g its right at the collar, out in the open and very obvious. Google a pic of the Pilot 78g and look for shots of the underside of the nibs to see the hole I'm referring to, as its a pretty good example...

 

And as for the bold: if feed holes were better positioned, it wouldnt be necessary to submerge the whole nib (and part of the section).

Ink IS cheap, but I'd prefer not to HAVE to wipe it down...any mess avoided is an improvement. Its a preference I have, that's all. You might just not share it, and that's OK.

Edited November 22, 2014 by sirgilbert357

[rafapa]

Please have a look at the photo of the back of the nib at

http://www.calgarypenclub.com/photos/pil_912/index_html.html

The hole at the front near the tip is the feed hole you mention.

[lsmith42]

This is my feed... It has no fins... Should I be worried?

[kestrel]

This is my feed... It has no fins... Should I be worried?

Nope. Lots of feeds, especially in older vintage pens, look like this.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Cartridges are the way to go for you....no wiping, just got to bend it hard to get it started when you have run out of ink.

 

It becomes so normal to insert a pen deep enough that the pen draws enough ink....as designed. No need to draw air.Wiping, normally in I don't use supersaturated inks, all I have to do is wipe the section....perhaps every once in a while I'll wipe a nib....not something I do every time, nor need too.

 

Either learn to live with it, or go to Cartridges...stay away from converters, if kept on the pen like it should be, so the feed is wet, you have the same problem. If you take the converter always off to dunk into the ink, and have to wipe any way, you have a dry feed, and will wear out the converter faster.

 

Buy a Sheaffer Snorkel and your problem is solved.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Bo Bo Olson

[owend]

Nope. Lots of feeds, especially in older vintage pens, look like this.

 

Also, many new pens are fin-less eg Platinum PTL-5000, and such non-rarities as the Lamy Safari/Accent etc!

 

My Faber-Castell Ambition has minimal finning (just small ones at the sides of the feed), and the nib has no "breather" hole. As I understand it and as others have said, the hole is not for breathing but for stress relief to prevent the slit from spreading as the end of the nib flexes. A round edge to any cut metal spreads the stress - remember the Comet airliner in the 1950s, and why airliners now have rounded windows. Also, the amount of air which a FP needs to replace the ink as it flows out of the sac/converter/cartridge is very little, and wouldn't need any sort of hole.

 

I would hazard a guess that nibs without the hole are engineered to resist flexing - the Ambition is ceratinly a stiff nib as are several Parkers which don't appear to have "breather" holes.