Pen Holders - Historical Usage

[Cryptos]

Apologies if this has been asked elsewhere but I couldn't find it.

 

I have a straight pen holder, and there have been many recommendations to get an oblique holder as a better option. This has got me thinking. Back in the days when dip pens were ubiquitous, but later than quill pens, did the majority of people who wrote everyday use a straight or an oblique holder?

 

I await answers!*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*I have tons of questions

[Princeps Anglorum]

I recently went to the Pen Room museum in Birmingham and all the period holders on display there were of the straight variety.

[Cryptos]

I am beginning to think that daily writers used a straight holder and the oblique was used by specialists and calligraphers.

[Paddler]

I inherited the family pen collection that goes back into the 19th Century. All of the nib holders are straight. An oblique holder would have been thought of either as an affectation or a very specialized instrument like a ruling pen for draftsmen. First of all, these folks dipped their pens right in the small necked bottle. An inkwell wide enough for an oblique holder would be a rarity.

[Cryptos]

Then the beautiful Spencerian and other scripts were largely done using a straight holder, I guess.

 

Why then is there this insistence on going down the oblique route, for want of an expression?

[ac12]

For me the oblique holder lines up the nib with the down stroke. So when I do the down stroke, I am pulling the nib down its axis, not at an angle. As a result, the down stroke is smoother. And this really shows with pointed nibs that can catch and spatter when drawn at an angle. So, my holder of preference for pointed nibs is an oblique holder. BTW, I do not do ornamental writing, I use my dip pens for general writing, such as to my pen pals or in my journal.

 

The oblique holders seems to be an American invention, as some of the Europeans on the Flourish forum cannot find oblique holders in Europe.

[Cryptos]

Yes, but the point I am making is that oblique holders may not be the standard instrument for dip pen writing historically speaking. At least it seems that way. Does anyone have any actual history on oblique holders?

[ongnon]

Then the beautiful Spencerian and other scripts were largely done using a straight holder, I guess.

 

Why then is there this insistence on going down the oblique route, for want of an expression?

Sorry if I give a stupid ideal.

Maybe I think: if I were you, I will buy an oblique holder because I won't have to spend time thinking about it.

If you want it, you buy it, so you can compare them together.

I think you should try a speedball oblique pen holder at about 5$.

[Cryptos]

I see. Well, this wasn't about me buying an oblique holder, although I may well get one for the holidays. It was just that there is often this recommendation to use one when it seems that it was not the instrument of choice at the time when handwriting with dip pens was at its height. Of course I may be wrong about that, and this is why I have asked the question.

 

I am not trying to validate the purchase of an oblique holder. Just to be clear.

[Algester]

Generally speaking most pens at least even when including cuneiform stylus and quill pens they are mostly straight, oblique holders only came about when efficiency and comfort is needed

[Randal6393]

Important to note that, once "invented" in the late 19th century, oblique holders quickly became the tool of choice of right-hand penmen. Would recommend trying both types of holders, seeing which you like best. Having tried both styles, I wouldn't be without my oblique.

 

Enjoy,

[Mickey]

Short version:

 

Though oblique holders were most likely developed in Great Britain (the first patent was filed there), they don't seem to have become particularly popular with English scribes. Early Spencerian was written with quills, which, if properly selected and prepared, provide some of the same benefits as oblique holders. It was natural then for writers of Spencerian to take to the oblique holder. Spencerian can be written with a straight holder, but almost all of the examples from the 'golden age' were penned with oblique holders such as these http://www.zanerian.com/DonTate_files/don_tate_index.html (Flourishing, however, was and is often performed with a straight holder.)

Edited November 9, 2014 by Mickey

[Mickey]

Important to note that, once "invented" in the late 19th century, oblique holders quickly became the tool of choice of right-hand penmen. Would recommend trying both types of holders, seeing which you like best. Having tried both styles, I wouldn't be without my oblique.

 

Enjoy,

 

The first patent, I believe, was filed in 1831 (in Britain). That style holder began gaining popularity (in the U.S.) during the 1850s.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Mickey

[CraigR]

For some reason, this topic has perked my interest in an oblique holder. I have a number of straights and various nibs, but have never owned an oblique. Off to the internet to shop.

[Cryptos]

So I'm the enabler now?

 

Unfortunately for me the cost of giving away a bunch of pens means that I can no longer afford a Zanerian holder this year. Maybe next Christmas. In the meantime I shall bash on with my straight holder (good old $4 E+M!) in an effort to capture the flowing styles of yore.

[SuperNib44]

Then the beautiful Spencerian and other scripts were largely done using a straight holder, I guess.

 

Why then is there this insistence on going down the oblique route, for want of an expression?

I thought of starting a thread on the same topic a week ago, but didn't!

[Mickey]

Cryptos, on 08 Nov 2014 - 17:31, said:

Then the beautiful Spencerian and other scripts were largely done using a straight holder, I guess.

 

Why then is there this insistence on going down the oblique route, for want of an expression?

I thought of starting a thread on the same topic a week ago, but didn't!

 

The principal problem with such a thread would be that the vast majority of (quality) Spencerian penmanship was (is) done with an oblique holder. It is, for the vast majority of penman, the superior tool. You can pound nails with a shovel, but a hammer is almost always a better choice.

[Cryptos]

 

... the vast majority of (quality) Spencerian penmanship was (is) done with an oblique holder.

 

Is this quality Spencerian representative of the everyday hand of the average correspondent? That is at the heart of why I started this thread. Perhaps the average correspondent didn't use a Spencerian hand? At this very early stage in my explorations I am looking to use my dip pen as a correspondence tool, not as an artists tool (that may come in time).

 

Apologies for the slightly rambling nature of the enquiry. I am really new to this area.

[Mickey]

I'll make it easy. If the writing includes shades, the oblique pen is the superior instrument. It is the more versatile tool and more intuitive to use than a straight holder. I've written shaded Spencerian with flexible fountain pens and straight holders, but it is vastly easier to use an oblique holder. It is faster, easier, more intuitive, and the results are significantly better. (The oblique holder is also a better tool for Copperplate for the same reasons.)

[caliken]

Whilst Spencerian and Copperplate can be written with a straight penholder, they are both much easier to write with an oblique holder. For shading, the nib has to point as closely as possible to the slope line. In this way, the tines open evenly and the shade is perfectly executed.

 

(Apologies for going off-topic)

 

Edited November 10, 2014 by Ken Fraser