Mabie Todd Fans - A Pif For You.

[Cepasaccus]

Thanks, Cob!

[Cob]

You are welcome; all I have to do now is rely on my memory

 

Cob

[Cob]

I received this lovely book today and am absolutely delighted with it; all I can do (apart from looking up about "pre-Swans for Cepacassus) is offer my commiserations to those who were unfortunate enough not to win this lovely and very generous PIF.

 

Rgds to all

Cob

[Cepasaccus]

I am fine with you looking up pre-Swans for me.

 

Have fun!

[Cob]

I think Cob deserves it. He's a new member, but already has entertained me with interesting pens, and witty comments.

 

 

 

About the book:

 

Would it be an idea to scan it, and make it digitally available? Depends of course on how old it is for copyright reasons.

 

 

D.ick

Well it was published iin 2007 so I think that that would be a bit naughty!

 

Cob

[Cob]

Well that is truly interesting - and as you may imagine, I cannot offer a scintilla of information to help you on your way!

 

If there is something about it in my prize I shall be happy to let you know.

 

Cob

Hullo again.

 

Well I have found a reference in my lovely book to Patent 1877.8.9. [Edit: of course these are years that the patents were issued not the patent numbers]. Your pen was known as "The Calligraphic". I see that yours has an over/under feed which means it is not one of the earliest types; these had a curious coil spring over-feed. Unfortunately there is no reference to a Calligraphic with over-under feed like yours, but one is pictured with what looks like a gold over-feed similar to that fitted to the Swan Safety Pens ( - I have one of these and very nice it is too .) This of course does not mean that they were not made. It seems that the Swan name was introduced about 1888-9. Maybe (Mabie?) at some point your pen was modified - over that period of time anything is possible. The Calligraphic was made under patents held by William W. Stewart, who the book says held 34 patents relating to fountain pens. Stewart eventually was hired by George Mabie for his skills in developing fountain pens.

 

The author of the book has not been able to establish when production of the Calligraphic ended - so it might be supposed that production ran parallel to that of the earliest Swans.

 

Let me know if I can help further.

 

Best wishes

 

Cob

Edited November 25, 2014 by Cob

[RMN]

Well it was published iin 2007 so I think that that would be a bit naughty!

 

Cob

Can't do naughty!!!!

 

Too bad. Now every time we want to know something out of the book we'll have to wake you up....

 

 

D.ick

[Cepasaccus]

Great! Thanks Cob!

 

I was not able to find an US patent issued (or submitted) on 9th of August (or 8th of September). Is it written in the book in what country under what number the patent was issued?

 

Yes, it might very well be, that the feed was exchanged at some point in time, but I don't know, how compatible the sections where with the different feeds. The over/under feed with golden over I have so far only seen on bigger (and newer) nibs, but considering the patents, there were lot of fancy feeds. When looking at the ink stains around the cap air hole I can imagine, that the pen owner wanted to have a better feed.

 

Cepasaccus

 

PS: I bought the pen in UK. So I believe it is not from before 1884. Made in the years around the over/under feed patent and the Swan introduction could also be a reason for the later feed.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Cepasaccus

[Cob]

Hullo again.

 

Well, according to the book, Stewart was listed as a pen maker (by himself) in New York City directories from 1876-1880 (at 12 Maiden Lane) so it seems obvious that his patents were issued in New York State. Some are reproduced in the book - just drawings which mean very little to me I'm afraid; here are some of Stewart's patent numbers taken from the reproductions of the drawings:

 

206200

214795

222959

237139

237454

 

These are all dated from 1879-1881. Interesting to note that the last in that list appeared - misprinted - on the first Swan pens. The book states that Swan pens first appeared around 1889

 

And on Swan Pens

253953

314547

 

All these are Stewart patents apparently.

 

It is a pity that all the English Swan records were destroyed during an air-raid in 1940/41 - the factory was wrecked. I daresay that some mysteries could have been resolved with access to those, and now we'll never know.

 

As for buying pens here in England, I had a 242/52 self-filler (Lapis) that probably dated from the end of the 1920s; it was made in New York - about 15 years after the English company effectively took over most of the operations - I wonder how that arrived here? I have had (and have) a number of English-made Swans that have New York Mabie Todd Swan nibs. Funnily enough the 242's very handsome nib with kinked tip was the worst for my hand so I sold the pen. The No2 NY stubs are lovely and I am lucky to have three of them.

 

Best wishes

 

Cob

[Cepasaccus]

It is a pity that all the English Swan records were destroyed during an air-raid in 1940/41 - the factory was wrecked.

**** Germans!

 

The patent numbers you list are US patent numbers. I looked through the patents around 1877.8.9 and didn't find a suitable one. 1877-08-09 and 1877-09-08 are both weekdays on which no patents are issued as from the issue dates of the patents it appears that they worked only two fixed days a week. I can imagine, that 1877.8.9 does not mean an exact date, but the three years 1877, 1878 und 1879. It is a pity, that the book doesn't give a patent number for this date.

 

My preferred pen maker was only Waterman, but Mabie Todd managed to get nearly even with Waterman. The old Swan (and The Calligraphy) nibs are great. The 3012 is a very good pen. Unfortunately they are not as durable as a Waterman's safety.

 

Thanks

Cepasaccus

Edited November 26, 2014 by RMN
language

[Cob]

Yes the book mentions that there were apparent errors, as patents were issued only on Tuesdays! I should have added the dates on the patents. Here you are:

 

206200 July 23 1878

214795 April 29 1879

222959 Dec 23 1879

237139 Feb 1 1881

237454 Feb 8 1881

 

On another pen Forum, there is a thread called "Your three most trusted makes" I listed Swan, Waterman's and Osmia.

 

In my limited experience, I would rather take a chance on a Canadian Waterman's rather than a French, US or English one; the Canadian nibs are so often really lovely. One of mine is an English Pen in BHR with a 9ct gold band on the cap and a coffin clip. It has a glorious Canadian nib. The English pens didn't seem to carry model numbers, but it's about the size of a 32 - in fact 1/4" shorter and a little fatter. The nib is a No 2.

 

All the best

 

Cob

[Lynn St. Over]

Okay, this is a Pay it Forward...and I did post it there. Posting here for a wider audience.

 

I have recently come into possession of the authoritative work on the Mabie-Todd firm [/size]Mabie in America, 3rd Edition by David L. Mouk. [/size]This book is out of print so I'd like this to go to someone who'd truly enjoy it.

 

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e341/Jack_Breeding/mabie_zps92568732.jpg

 

It's exactly the sort of book that I love, richly illustrated, well researched and authoritative. Alas, but my shelves have only so much room but I am merely a writer and not a collector.

 

Write me or post here and let me know if this book would fill a niche in your library or a similar tale of need. I'll choose the recipient before US Thanksgiving and send it along US Mail to anyone, anywhere at my expense.

 

AJ

 

Do you still have this book????

[Cepasaccus]

Cob has it now.

[Amberjack]

My dear Cob,

 

I am gratified to know that the book arrived safely and that you are pleased with it.

I am further gratified to see that it has become immediately useful to you and the community here. You seem to have become the de facto M-T reference source - congratulations!

 

Best,

Jack

[Cepasaccus]

To increase the usefulness for Cob I have attached a photo of a new pen of mine.

 

I got that pen from ebay-uk. Capped length is a bit over 13cm. The overlay is IMHO rolled gold as there is no something K punch, but it has no brassing at all. The hole repousse work including the "filigree" part seems to be handmade. It has a nice stubish Mabie-Todd N.Y. nib. The only imprint on the pen itself is ""SWAN" PEN" on the end of the overlay. Even so the overlay had been turned lately (the brown stains do not match the filigree holes) the is no imprint on the rubber. The feed is the standard over/under feed split only in the section and with twisted silver wire.

 

From the style I don't think it is a very early pen. The slip mechanism more conical than what I am used to in the early MTs, also the cap top is rather flat. So my guess is that this pen is from the 1910s.

 

If you could have a look into your book I would be grateful.

 

Cepasaccus

Edited December 8, 2014 by Cepasaccus

[Cob]

My dear Cob,

 

I am gratified to know that the book arrived safely and that you are pleased with it.

I am further gratified to see that it has become immediately useful to you and the community here. You seem to have become the de facto M-T reference source - congratulations!

 

Best,

Jack

Jack,

 

Still waiting for your PM!

 

Cob

[Cob]

To increase the usefulness for Cob I have attached a photo of a new pen of mine.

 

I got that pen from ebay-uk. Capped length is a bit over 13cm. The overlay is IMHO rolled gold as there is no something K punch, but it has no brassing at all. The hole repousse work including the "filigree" part seems to be handmade. It has a nice stubish Mabie-Todd N.Y. nib. The only imprint on the pen itself is ""SWAN" PEN" on the end of the overlay. Even so the overlay had been turned lately (the brown stains do not match the filigree holes) the is no imprint on the rubber. The feed is the standard over/under feed split only in the section and with twisted silver wire.

 

From the style I don't think it is a very early pen. The slip mechanism more conical than what I am used to in the early MTs, also the cap top is rather flat. So my guess is that this pen is from the 1910s.

 

If you could have a look into your book I would be grateful.

 

Cepasaccus

I have here in front of me a bog-standard 1500 eye-dropper; I suspect that your pen is as such except of course for the wonderful metalwork it wears. Even if it is not hall-marked it's still lovely. I had a 300 eye-dropper with No 3 nib and ladder feed which was the right sort of shape but your pen surely pre-dates this. The book doesn't give production run dates; I should think that 1500s and their kin were made up to the early 1920s. Despite the kind words posted above I am in no way any kind of Mabie Todd authority.

 

The ones I really like from that period are the Safety Pens with the gold over-feed; I have a no 2 model that writes like a dream, but in the book there is a picture of a No 8 model!! Now that would be a prize - the Mabie Todd No 8 nib was an enormous chunk of gold... I have seen only a picture of a No8 nib next to a No 6 (which I have seen) and the difference in size is astonishing. What of course makes such things attractive is the sheer exoticism and rarity of them.

 

Meanwhile if you do not know it, John Brindle's Mabie Todd site might be of interest.

 

Best wishes

Cob

[Cepasaccus]

Although I didn't find one with size and form match my teardrop filigree pen it indeed looks like a 1500. Thanks!

 

Cepasaccus

[Cob]

Although I didn't find one with size and form match my teardrop filigree pen it indeed looks like a 1500. Thanks!

 

Cepasaccus

Perhaps 4572??

 

Cob

[Cepasaccus]

The 4572 is really to big. My Swan is at least 1cm shorter than the 1500s I found. Maybe that are just production differences over the years.

 

Cepasaccus