Montblanc Ink For Montblanc Flex

[Mister Mont Blanc]

Hello everybody! I hope everyone is having a good weekend. I recently got my first Montblanc 149 with a flex nib (am told it's from around 1960-1970's). It's also an oblique nib which I don't understand as to me, an oblique nib written at a slant is counterproductive to flexing a pen when the nib should be straight. I think I'm doing something wrong.

 

Anywhoodles the question I actually have here is does anyone know if there are current MB inks that work well with flex pens? I originally used Irish Green which was okay but railroaded often. I just switched to Toffee Brown and now I cannot get a flexed line at all. I also own Dandy Turquoise but haven't tried that yet. I also wanted to try the new Lavender Purple next and I don't want to go off into other brands for a flex ink unless I really need to.

Thank you so much for the help!!

[bstnnyc]

Hi Mister Mont Blanc, I have a 1950s 146 with flex and I haven't enjoyed using my MB inks with it either. I haven't noticed any railroading with them, but the nib just doesn't feel as supple.The two inks that have been the most fun to play with and which have allowed me to get the most out of the flexiness of the nib are J. Herbin 1670 Bleu Ocean and J. Herbin Eclat de Saphir. The Bleu Ocean is a little smoother and Eclat de Saphir is a little wetter but both feel wonderful. (On a side note, these are also the two inks that have felt the best in a Pelikan 400NN semi flex nib.) I hope this helps!

[Mister Mont Blanc]

Hi Mister Mont Blanc, I have a 1950s 146 with flex and I haven't enjoyed using my MB inks with it either. I haven't noticed any railroading with them, but the nib just doesn't feel as supple.The two inks that have been the most fun to play with and which have allowed me to get the most out of the flexiness of the nib are J. Herbin 1670 Bleu Ocean and J. Herbin Eclat de Saphir. The Bleu Ocean is a little smoother and Eclat de Saphir is a little wetter but both feel wonderful. (On a side note, these are also the two inks that have felt the best in a Pelikan 400NN semi flex nib.) I hope this helps!

Thank you very much. I actually do like both of those colors and they seem very similar. I am ordering multiple samples of each along with some other inks to give them all a try. Before, I only cared about how the ink color looked with an EF nib and now I have to pay attention to whether it will work in a flex nib plus how it looks when that much ink is puddling in a line. I almost thought I will need to get a dark ink like black because I'm not fond of shading in the broad lines. I will try the Dandy Turquoise tonight and see what happens with that one too! I guess it's just harder these days since inks aren't specifically designed to work with flexible nibs anymore.

[meiers]

Do NOT flex that nib. You risk damaging it.

They are not meant for flexing. Seriously.

 

Do share some photos please. And then perhaps more knowledge pen experts will offer their perspectives.

Edited October 26, 2014 by meiers

[Mister Mont Blanc]

Do NOT flex that nib. You risk damaging it.

They are not meant for flexing. Seriously.

 

Do share some photos please. And then perhaps more knowledge pen experts will offer their perspectives.

Sorry, which nib are you talking about? I wasn't talking about my modern EF 149. I have a 60's-70's 149 with a flexible nib. Or are you saying when it's oblique it shouldn't be flexed? Edited October 26, 2014 by Mister Mont Blanc

[meiers]

I am referring to the "flex" OB nib. MB Nibs from the 1960's and later were not meant for flexing.

Maybe a few more knowledge forum members could help me out here. I am fairly certain that you are risking that nib by exerting pressure on it.

 

Barry Gebay might be able to offer advice.

[slippery when wet]

these links may help

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/151378-fs-montblanc-149-medium-nib-1960s-with-flex/

http://www.mediafire.com/view/499p4tbpfct4faa/BarryGabayPWMB149.pdf

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/145452-flex-nib-149s/

Edited October 26, 2014 by slippery when wet

[Tadeusz]

I am by no means an expert in MB pens, but I believe that this falls under the category of "just because you can, does not mean you should".

 

I read a quote somewhere that I think is great (and applicable): "Every pen will flex once".

[Mister Mont Blanc]

these links may help

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/151378-fs-montblanc-149-medium-nib-1960s-with-flex/

http://www.mediafire.com/view/499p4tbpfct4faa/BarryGabayPWMB149.pdf

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/145452-flex-nib-149s/

I was going to ask you what that blue ink was that you used in it. It was a nice color and seems it did well with flexing.

[slippery when wet]

I was going to ask you what that blue ink was that you used in it. It was a nice color and seems it did well with flexing.

Watermans Blue- Black

Edited October 27, 2014 by slippery when wet

[Bo Bo Olson]

Your nib Is Not a "Flex" nib. Don't spring it trying to make it so. Do read Richard Binder's article on his site about how easy it is to spring a nib....it's a must read.

 

"Flex" is a misused word, in folks try to make it write like a Super-flex, when it is a semi-flex or at max, a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex. Semi-flex...almost flex.

Please read my signature.

 

True springy regular flex, semi-flex and 'flexi/maxi-semi-flex all only spread their tines only 3 X a light down stroke. Semi-flex spreads it's tines 3X with half the pressure of a well mashed regular flex.

'Flexi'/maxi-semi-flex spreads 3 X with half of that or 1/4th the pressure of a well mashed regular flex.

 

The first problem is one has to have a semi-vintage or vintage regular flex to compare too, in most modern pens seem to be semi-nail now and not the once normal regular flex.

Therefore a semi-flex would appear a "Flex" nib to one use to using nails and semi-nails.

 

Semi-flex gives natural flare and if one has a italic calligraphy book, there are some six strokes that one can use occasionally to spiff up one's writing. Semi-flex is not a nib to write Spenserian or max the in it will over stress and spring the nib. 'Flexi'/maxi-semi-flex does those six strokes easier, having half again the flex of a semi-flex. Again, don't go over 3X tine spread, or you will spring your nib.

 

My modern Woolf nib is a 'Springy" nib, like a Falcon.....2 X tine spread with nice tip bend....and not as easy to 'flex' as a semi-flex. More and easier tine bend than a regular flex.

One can see a semi-flex as springy++ with a 3X tine spread.

 

Superflex spreads it's tines 4-5-6 or even 7 X a light down stroke depending on company and era.

From my understanding MB superflex nibs would be pre-war.

There are some three flex stages with in the superflex set. With in that set, 4-5-6 or even 7 X a light down stroke are possible. Again, one must have an idea, from experience, how much tine spread to use. My 100n is a 5 X tine spread, I never after finding out how much it spread use that max of 5X. I keep the tine spread of that pen at 4X. Never Max your nib Spread, as normal use. Always stay under max, so you don't spring your nib.

 

What I use to call Easy Full Flex, which takes half as much pressure as a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex or 1/8th the pressure of a well mashed regular flex.

Wet Noodle, half the pressure of an Easy Full flex or 1/16th the pressure needed to flex as a well mashed regular flex.

Weak Kneed Wet Noodle even less pressure.

 

 

As my first MB I lucked into a '52-54 with a '55 feed) MB 234 1/2 Deluxe KOB semi-flex with a Waverly tip. I was completely ignorant of MB....originally I thought it an ugly pen. I changed my mind, after I got Lambrou's book, and saw it as a more refined 139 style in a standard pen.

 

I had a couple of semi-flex pens, so knew it was semi-flex. It was part of a live auction lot. I didn't want it, but wanted the 400nn, with it's 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex nib. I had a Rupp 'flexi' so knew what flex that was.

 

For the longest time, from some 4 years or so, the 234 1/2 was my #1 pen, the 400nn my #2. Not being as AR as I once was on The #1 pen, those two are still in the top 5...not really tested lately. All my top 5 are grand.

I now have @ 26 semi-flex nibbed pens.

 

I had wanted a '50's-65 MB with a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex in as far as I know that was the most flexible nib MB made '50-65....from my reading here, '66-75 still has some flex but not quite as much as the '50-65 nibs....could be they stopped making the 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex in '66-75 and only made semi-flex.

 

I tend to buy at live auctions so I can check the nibs. Even though the rolled gold 742 (standard sized also) was a bit more bling than I was after....was looking for more like a 146 of the '50-65 era someday. I wanted an MB 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex. At worse I was going to make that dealer, who had absolutely no interest in the nib, pay for it. I reached my limit, and won.

I had some 13 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex pens, when I got that pen for €160. It is not the best 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex nib I have, but is one.

 

Last month I picked up a springy regular flex 146, '70's-80s. A very nice nib.

One does need good regular flex in M&F for shading inks, in that depending on the ink is better than the wetter B or semi-flex nibs.

 

I also have a 320 nail I don't use. So out side of the prewar or preWW1 superflex that MB had to have made, I have the five MB nibs.

 

Read Richard's article, do not spring your nib by trying to make it do Olympic Splits when it is not designed to do so.

 

Enjoy the 149's semi-flex or 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex nib with in it's limits. Which is a 3 X tine spread.

It costs $70 to repair a sprung nib, and it will not be quite as good as it once was.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Bo Bo Olson

[Mister Mont Blanc]

Watermans Blue- Black

Thanks Mark, I have some Waterman samples on the way, have heard Florida Blue works well too but they didn't have that available.

[Bo Bo Olson]

If your paper is good enough, 90g and or 100-110-120g laser only, try some shading inks. R&K, Herbin, and MB Irish.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Bo Bo Olson

[Mister Mont Blanc]

If your paper is good enough, 90g and or 100-110-120g laser only, try some shading inks. R&K, Herbin, and MB Irish.

I normally use Rhodia paper and am currently using MB Irish Green. It seems to flow the best with this nib of the few inks I have. I am not using this nib for flex writing especially as it is an oblique nib. I use it for normal writing and every once in a while, flex it a bit for a letter or some tiny scroll work under a word. I guess I've just never heard of a flex nib being made to not be flexed. I don't understand all of that semi-maxi-flexi jargon yet. But I've seen 149s on Penboard.de being sold as 1980's with flex nibs and writing samples flexing the nibs.

[Mister Mont Blanc]

If your paper is good enough, 90g and or 100-110-120g laser only, try some shading inks. R&K, Herbin, and MB Irish.

Thanks for your info. I'm also not a big fan of shading either. Especially after using this nib with flex, I don't like the one line that starts out green and the second half is a big puddle of ink that looks black. I like more uniformity and a drier ink line. So I just bought some samples of J. Herbin, Waterman, and Diamine inks to try out with this pen specifically.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Shading is not starting out green and on the next words a puddle of black. There should not be a puddle if the pen is OK. I've never had that happen. I have @ 26 semi-flex, 14 'flexi'/semi-flex.

 

You should start a thread to find out why your pen 'burps' or has such an ink color change. I'm wondering if the nib is sprung.

I'm assuming you do not have that problem with monotone supersaturated high maintenance inks.

Could be your piston gasket has a problem.

 

It just came to me about your burping problem while reading your other thread....are you letting out 3-4 drops of ink after you fill up?

 

 

Shading is two tones of the ink in the same letter, caused by pooling of ink on top of the paper.

Rhoda is ok as 80g and there is a Japanese paper that is good with 70. Most other papers, show shading on 90g, where they do not on 'normal' 80g.

 

I really like '50s-'65 German nibs in semi-flex & 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex. I do flex the nib when I wish, inside the 3 X parameter of those flex sets. I normally just write with the nib, allowing the flex of the nib to give me flair.

 

I have 14 Obliques in those two flexes, from OBB, OB, OM & OF in both @ 15 & 30 degree grinds. I don't have a set each, but a solid mix. In it was all luck of the draw.

 

I had thought Pelikan only made 15 degree grinds, until I got a 500 ('51-54) OBB in 30 degree grind. That is a hell of a signature nib. My only MB oblique is that 234 1/2 Deluxe, KOB but it has a Waverly tip also. K=kugla/ball; a thicker tip with a ball on the upside of the nib, to let those who held a fountain pen like a pencil to continue to do so. Back then, the underside of the nib was flatter than the American Bump under, giving a stubbishness to the writing, even with a Kugle tip.

 

One of the reason's Pelikan is now so poor a nib fat and blobby is it has a double kugle, both the American Bump and the German Kugle/ball on top....made for cross over BP users who do not have three minutes to learn how to hold a fountain pen....made to semi-nail instead of regular flex which has a tad of spring, so the ham fisted ball point Barbarians don't bend the nib.

My Woolf, while not as flat under the tip as many of my '50's pens, is still stubbish compared to the normal American Bump under.

 

Most vintage nibs are thinner than modern. Ie, that 234 1/2 KOB is a writing nib....and my pens of that era, are 1/2 a width thinner than modern. That KOB nib is more like a fat M, than my modern Woolf's B=BB. That is a fat B.

 

30 degree gives more line variation than the 15 degree grind.

I write mostly normally, with the nib canted of course, allowing the flex of the nib to give the line variation. I find modern obliques not to give much to any line variation, and even a 200's springy regular flex oblique not to give as much line variation as the semi-flex and 'flexi' nibs.

I do like the shading a nice Oblique with some flex gives in the line variation.

 

In each new to 'semi-flex' is different, I do write each time 'new' when I talk "Flex" vs the semi-flex, 'flexi'& regular flex 3X set. I did cover it all, but if you have any questions, I'll answer. If you wish by PM.

 

I had the advantage to be living in Germany where semi-flex lasted to the '70's, so were able to get them as 'normal' old pens. In the States it's much harder to lay hands on semi-flex with American pens...Wahl-Eversharp of the '40's and a few early '50's Sheaffers. So it was easy to pick up experience.

 

Having heard about semi-flex on this com, and the 140, when I put it to my thumbnail in a flea market , I knew what the big fuss was all about. That changed me from make and model to chase the nib.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Bo Bo Olson

[Mister Mont Blanc]

Shading is not starting out green and on the next words a puddle of black. There should not be a puddle if the pen is OK. I've never had that happen. I have @ 26 semi-flex, 14 'flexi'/semi-flex.

 

You should start a thread to find out why your pen 'burps' or has such an ink color change. I'm wondering if the nib is sprung.

I'm assuming you do not have that problem with monotone supersaturated high maintenance inks.

Could be your piston gasket has a problem.

 

It just came to me about your burping problem while reading your other thread....are you letting out 3-4 drops of ink after you fill up?

 

 

Shading is two tones of the ink in the same letter, caused by pooling of ink on top of the paper.

Rhoda is ok as 80g and there is a Japanese paper that is good with 70. Most other papers, show shading on 90g, where they do not on 'normal' 80g.

 

 

 

Thank you so much for all of this information you provide I apologize I don't always type exactly what I'm trying to say. The pen has no problems with it and I do fill it correctly and always have (I overload myself with information before taking on new adventures including fountain pens). Yes I am aware of what shading is and I just don't seem to like it. What I was trying to say is that it seems more prevalent when using the flex nib. It is essentially the same thing, as you move or lift the nib, some extra ink pooling on the paper and makes that area look darker. I now realized how to somewhat prevent that with the flex nib. I noticed when I flexed the nib then lifted right off the paper, that is when a lot of ink came out and pooled in the line of ink. However, if after flexing, I release the flex and THEN take the nib off of the paper, the ink flow is stopped and this doesn't happen. So I found the solution on that one, it just takes some more time and going slower when writing. I also found out the railroading was caused by trying to flex the nib on the first stroke. I have to get the ink flowing first with some normal lines then flex the nib and there is no problem. Irish Green definitely helps with the flow when flexing but this also causes more of the shading Maybe I'll have to use boring old black to avoid the shading properties. Knowing my luck, black will probably shade too!

 

This nib is supposed to be a medium and surprisingly, it has some line variation... as you stated about being an oblique. It isn't noticeable in writing but if you draw horizontal and vertical lines, you can see the difference. I suppose this 60's-70's nib is considered a "semi-flex" nib?

[Bo Bo Olson]

I don't know, it would be at least semi-flex, it could be 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex if it's deep enough into the '60's....'65 and before.

In that every corner pen shop, had different flex of nibs for the pens they sold, it was the original owner's choice to take a semi-flex or a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex.

 

You want boring monotone supersaturated inks.....sigh cubed.

 

I chase shading. Why avoid shading....which is often even more with a regular flex in M&F, in they are often drier than the wetter writing Semi&maxi flexes.

 

There are whole lots of us that chase shading inks. We don't see that as a fault but as a plus.

Do try to look at shading a bit different.

Or don't worry about it now, but I think some day you will get a few shading inks, for the fun of them.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Bo Bo Olson

[Mister Mont Blanc]

I don't know, it would be at least semi-flex, it could be 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex if it's deep enough into the '60's....'65 and before.

In that every corner pen shop, had different flex of nibs for the pens they sold, it was the original owner's choice to take a semi-flex or a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex.

 

You want boring monotone supersaturated inks.....sigh cubed.

 

I chase shading. Why avoid shading....which is often even more with a regular flex in M&F, in they are often drier than the wetter writing Semi&maxi flexes.

 

There are whole lots of us that chase shading inks. We don't see that as a fault but as a plus.

Do try to look at shading a bit different.

Or don't worry about it now, but I think some day you will get a few shading inks, for the fun of them.

I know, I'm sorry :/ I'm just not there yet I guess

I have noticed most of MB's inks (at least the ones I've had) seem to shade and I think that's because their inks are kind of pale or washed out. You can kind of "see through" the ink on the page which allows you to see the multiple shades in shading. I don't mind it in an EF nib, but when it's a wider nib or with flex, I just like the look of uniformity. I also think it has to do with how wet MB nibs and feeds are because I don't get shading from a TWSBI stub nib. But see now I've always loved Diamine Bilberry, it's a nice dark purple that hardly shades because of how saturated and dark it is. BUT that comes at a cost of staining the inside barrel and even the plastic sample vials it comes in. Well, maybe I souldn't say "stain" but what I mean is if you turn the vial upside down, the ink is so thick and saturated that the plastic at the top is still purple from where the ink just left, whereas other inks all flow to the bottom and you see through clear plastic. Bilberry turns the whole vial purple. I'm thinking this wouldn't be good for a MB fountain pen..?

Edited October 30, 2014 by Mister Mont Blanc