Celluloid Problems

[chandelle]

Hi all,

 

I have one celluloid pen, a lovely Edison Collier. It writes with a smooth wetness that really suits my liking but ever since I bought it some 15 months, I've had problems with irritation of the nostrils and lachrymation. Even the contact of my fingers with areas having thinner skin like my temples causes irritation there; the fingers and hand have never been affected.

 

I once tried dismantling the various parts and leaving them in a room to air-dry for a fortnight but it hasn't helped. Strangely, the intensity of the fumes (wrong term?) hasn't abated one bit.

 

Is it just me or has anyone else experienced a similar problem?

 

Cheers!

 

[Oldane]

I think it can be one of two things:

 

1) "Celluloid rot", though the pen is hardly old enough for that (begins from day one but is usually noticed after at least 20-30 years). It begins with a darkening of the celluloid (can be seen on many old pens) and will eventually end in crumbling of it. It's a very well known fenomenon in the guitar world where pickguards and other celluloid components disintegrate and emits corrosive gasses which attacks the metal parts of the guitar (for example pickup covers). Hardly any pre-WW2 archtop guitar has it's original pickguard. The tuner buttons on my 1961 Gibson 175 guitar began to "rot" this way after about 30 years..

 

2) You are allergic to gasses emitted from some component of the pen, most likely the celluloid. This is the most probable cause for your problems. There's really not much to do but stop using the pen. Since you like the writing properties of the pen, you may be able to use the nib/feed unit in another pen shaft made from another material like acrylic plastic and that way keep the writing experience. Many modern pens use stadardized nib/feed units which screw in and out of the pens easily (I think Bexley does too). I have a favorite Pelikan M800 nib which I shift from one M800 to the next in my rotation when I get bored looking at the same pen.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Oldane

[FarmBoy]

I doubt your Edison pen is made from celluloid. More likely an acetate resin is the material.

 

You might try contacting the manufacturer, he can perhaps help answer your questions.

[watch_art]

Edison has used lots of celluloid over the years. Why wouldn't it be celluloid?

 

http://www.americanartplastics.com/celluloid_pricing.shtml

 

and then there's some tibaldi rods floating around, too.

Is that not celluloid?? It has the campher smell. No AA resins I've ever turned have the same physical qualities or smell.

 

What material specifically (color/pattern) is your pen?

[richardandtracy]

Some people do react to camphor (naptha) and that can't be helped.

 

Put the pen in a well ventilated area and leave it to outgas for a couple of years. The pen will eventually stop smelling after the un-reacted naptha has sublimed from inside the material. On the basis of a fairly new celluloid pen I have, the pen shouldn't smell to any significant degree at 4 years old, but given your sensitivity you may have to wait to 6-8 years.

 

To check that it is the camphor that is causing you problems, buy some moth-balls (same stuff as the smelly ingredient in celluloid). If handling them brings you in a rash, the that's confirmed. Otherwise, buy a vintage celluloid pen & see if that affects you. If the answer to both is no, then I'd begin to wonder if it's not something else in your environment that doesn't agree with you.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[FarmBoy]

Edison has used lots of celluloid over the years. Why wouldn't it be celluloid?

 

http://www.americanartplastics.com/celluloid_pricing.shtml

 

and then there's some tibaldi rods floating around, too.

Is that not celluloid?? It has the campher smell. No AA resins I've ever turned have the same physical qualities or smell.

 

What material specifically (color/pattern) is your pen?

I looked at Goulet's website and the pens look like acetate more so than celluloid.

 

One should ask Brian.

[watch_art]

Okay, those are acrylic. But if he ordered a Collier from Brian directly, and requested a different material, then it could be celluloid. He didn't state where he bought the pen from.

[chandelle]

I owe people here an apology.

 

I suddenly remembered that I'd written Brian Gray back in Jul '13 about this and he'd confirmed that the Collier's body was acrylic, not nitrous celluloid.

 

True (Alzheimer's) senior moment, I'm afraid... but I still would welcome suggestions on how the 'fumes' can be gotten rid of, if at all.

[watch_art]

I haven't figured that one out. I've turned a few acrylics that stink, and never seemed to stop stinking. I have no clue what to suggest for this...

[richardandtracy]

Fresh air & time is about the only cure.

 

Regards,

 

Richard

[balson]

i can tell you that acrylic paint releases ammonia as it dries but once cured it should not be off gassing a significant amount of anything.

 

have you ruled out any inks of the inks you use? i have had mild allergic reactions from handling old pens before but i think that was from irritants on the surface like mold or pollen because once i thoroughly cleaned the pens they no longer bother me.

[chandelle]

i can tell you that acrylic paint releases ammonia as it dries but once cured it should not be off gassing a significant amount of anything.

 

have you ruled out any inks of the inks you use? i have had mild allergic reactions from handling old pens before but i think that was from irritants on the surface like mold or pollen because once i thoroughly cleaned the pens they no longer bother me.

 

I've inked it up only with Faber Castell Blue or Montblanc Royal Blue. Both of those inks have served me well in the past without any issues; in fact, I've never had an issue with inks, generally.

[FarmBoy]

i can tell you that acrylic paint releases ammonia as it dries but once cured it should not be off gassing a significant amount of anything.

 

have you ruled out any inks of the inks you use? i have had mild allergic reactions from handling old pens before but i think that was from irritants on the surface like mold or pollen because once i thoroughly cleaned the pens they no longer bother me.

Big difference between acrylic paint and acrylic rod. I'm not a paint expert nor do I sell paint but I'm suppose to be a chemist. I suspect the 'ammonia' and likely 'formaldehyde' out gassing is related more to stabilizers intended to keep things from growing in the paint pre-application, something not present in a fully cured rod. The chemistry is very different. A quick quote from a paint reference page "Acrylic paints typically include a range of biocides to protect the latex, which can include arsenic disulphide, phenol, copper, formaldehyde, carbamates, permethrin and quaternary ammonium compounds."

I see no reason someone could not have an allergic reaction to acrylic, I'd suspect such a reaction is rare but possible. I do know people that have allergic reactions to latex (gloves) and to nitrile (again gloves) to other polymers.

[balson]

Big difference between acrylic paint and acrylic rod. I'm not a paint expert nor do I sell paint but I'm suppose to be a chemist. I suspect the 'ammonia' and likely 'formaldehyde' out gassing is related more to stabilizers intended to keep things from growing in the paint pre-application, something not present in a fully cured rod. The chemistry is very different. A quick quote from a paint reference page "Acrylic paints typically include a range of biocides to protect the latex, which can include arsenic disulphide, phenol, copper, formaldehyde, carbamates, permethrin and quaternary ammonium compounds."

I see no reason someone could not have an allergic reaction to acrylic, I'd suspect such a reaction is rare but possible. I do know people that have allergic reactions to latex (gloves) and to nitrile (again gloves) to other polymers.

 

i double checked my notes and you are correct as always, it was formaldehyde i was thinking of that is released as the paint cures, ammonia is just in acrylic varnishes.