My Natural Grip Vs. Lamy Safari Grip

[esteboune]

Dear all,

 

first of all and since it is my first post on this great forum, allow me to present myself.

Paul, 32, french expat in Malaysia.

Passionate about FP since my childhood, but i forgot them for far too long.

 

I recently rediscovered the joy of handwriting and try to get rid of my laptop or phone when i can do so!

 

This is my question, i recently purchased a Lamy Al-Star, and i find the grip quite disturbing.

 

I took 2 pictures to illustrate my problem:

 

1 Lamy grip

 

2 other pen Grip

 

As written above, the grip on the 149 is much more relaxed, and natural for me.

Whereas the Lamy grip feels awkward, but the writing is not bad at all...

 

Is the Lamy grip represents a standard way of holding a FP?

Do i need to work on my normal grip to evolve into something more similar to the lamy grip.

 

Thanks a lot for your point of view.

 

cheers!

 

 

 

[ac12]

No, you just have a finger over grip, rather than the finger to the side.

Lamy just chose the thumb and index finger to the side and middle finger below grip as their model.

Just a different rotation for the grip.

Several/many people use the finger over grip.

 

Unfortunately if you want to use the Safari, Al Star or joy, you will have to change your grip to match the facets in the grip. Or hold the pen between the facets/flats of the section. The grip/section of the Safari does not match a finger over grip.

 

PS, the old Parker 75 also has flats on the section. However, you can rotate the nib in the section of the P75 to compensate for the rotation, which you cannot do with the Lamys.

[RitchieMac]

I have come to the conclusion that I should choose the pen to fit my grip, rather than change my grip to fit the pen.

 

There are many pens available out there.

 

I notice that you wrote Pilot vanishing point on your rhodia pad. Do you have that pen? Because your forefinger would be directly on the clip of that pen.

[esteboune]

I notice that you wrote Pilot vanishing point on your rhodia pad. Do you have that pen? Because your forefinger would be directly on the clip of that pen.

 

Absolutely!!!!

 

i need to change my grip in order to use this pen. (quite similar to the safari / al-star grip by the way)

 

i guess I will follow your advise, and choose more wisely my future acquisitions!

[dragos.mocanu]

A tricky one, this Lamy grip type...it would be nice if they could design something like a rotating and locking triangular grip, so that a user can adjust it to preference...a small step towards a truly ergonomic fountain pen. But then, if we had a truly ergonomic pen, everyone would just write with that one and the fountain pen world would be a lot duller (I think I drifted off for a bit there...)

[Bo Bo Olson]

Yours still looks cramped and headed for the 'death grip'. Your thumb is good.

 

 

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm300/BoBoOlson/SAM_0418.jpg

[guild]

I have the same grip. I did a left oblique stub grind on the nib and it works great. The flat spots help quickly line up the nib to the paper. This is very handy when using an italic type nib.

[Ernst Bitterman]

Yours still looks cramped and headed for the 'death grip'. Your thumb is good.

 

 

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm300/BoBoOlson/SAM_0418.jpg

 

Just what I was going to say:

http://dirck.delint.ca/beta/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Tripods.jpg

 

Note the amendment on the VP to make way for the clip; the Safari asks the same of the writer.

[esteboune]

Yours still looks cramped and headed for the 'death grip'. Your thumb is good.

 

 

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm300/BoBoOlson/SAM_0418.jpg

 

 

Thanks a lot for your suggestion.

 

Here is a picture of my corrected grip:

 

[ac12]

 

A tricky one, this Lamy grip type...it would be nice if they could design something like a rotating and locking triangular grip, so that a user can adjust it to preference...a small step towards a truly ergonomic fountain pen. But then, if we had a truly ergonomic pen, everyone would just write with that one and the fountain pen world would be a lot duller (I think I drifted off for a bit there...)

 

That is the Parker 75

[rudyhou]

you're not alone. due to the specific design of lamy safari's grip section and the way i grip a pen when writing, i now have no choice but to keep my lamy in a cabinet. yeah, it doesn't see the light of day much. i keep coming back to the rounder/normal design of grip section of other fountain pen brands.

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

Try to keep your index finger well ahead of your thumb, so that the pen is not being pinched or squeezed. One's index finger should be [gracefully] bowed out, so the tip of the index finger - not the entire pad of the fingertip - is in contact with the pen.

 

On the Safari, having one's index finger at the nib-most end of the section, and thumb at the top-most part of a groove should give a fair starting point.

 

Most of all, keep the nib running on its sweet spot - that is the pivot point for everything else.

 

As an FP does not need pressure to write, (unless flexing a nib), no more force is needed than to lift and settle the pen between strokes: a light hand is quite desirable.

 

By changing the position of the gripping point along the section, one can compensate for the balance [centre of mass] of the pen and one's preference for forward / neutral / back- weighting.

 

It does take a bit of getting used to, but a good grip will not only enable comfortable long haul writing sessions, but the comfortable use of pens that vary greatly in mass and girth, and mono-line and shaped nibs of most any width.

 

Orient the paper to match the pen's direction of travel.

Oh, please practice good posture too.

 

Bye,

S1

Edited November 3, 2014 by Sandy1

[Bo Bo Olson]

Esteboune, I hope your pen feels better in your hand, and there will be no fatigue.

 

I lived with the 'death grip' and the dreaded 'Kung Fu thumb pinch' for 55 years, until some one showed me the alternative.

 

I think if it's the finger tip or the finger pad is what one is use too.

There is probably good arguments either way.....it seems to me, for me, I tend to perhaps put more pressure on the pen with the tip of my forefinger than with the pad.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Bo Bo Olson

[Gloucesterman]

One point to keep in mind is that how a pen feels when you are writing is dictated (no pun intended) by what you are used to feeling. If you change the way you hold something such as you pen, do it for a while - several days perhaps - without using the "old" pen/grip. This provides the muscles in your hand, arm and shoulder (muscle memory) to adjust to a different way of feeling.

 

If you have been holding your pen a certain way for 10/20/30+ years, then it's perfectly natural that holding it another way will feel awkward and uncomfortable. It's called a habit.

[proton007]

Dear all,

 

first of all and since it is my first post on this great forum, allow me to present myself.

Paul, 32, french expat in Malaysia.

Passionate about FP since my childhood, but i forgot them for far too long.

 

I recently rediscovered the joy of handwriting and try to get rid of my laptop or phone when i can do so!

 

This is my question, i recently purchased a Lamy Al-Star, and i find the grip quite disturbing.

 

I took 2 pictures to illustrate my problem:

 

1 Lamy grip

 

2 other pen Grip

 

As written above, the grip on the 149 is much more relaxed, and natural for me.

Whereas the Lamy grip feels awkward, but the writing is not bad at all...

 

Is the Lamy grip represents a standard way of holding a FP?

Do i need to work on my normal grip to evolve into something more similar to the lamy grip.

 

Thanks a lot for your point of view.

 

cheers!

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think you need to change your grip to accommodate Safari's design. It has been designed with a different style of usage (read: different grip), one that I feel doesn't conform to the traditional style some of us practice with.

 

If held between the index finger and the thumb resting on the angled sides, it'll cause the angle the wrist and arm makes against the paper to change. Ultimately it'll also affect how you hold other pens, which I'm afraid may not be advisable.

 

However, if you keep your index finger on the flat, top ridge, you'll find your thumb will align itself accordingly. That's how I've been using it, and I don't find myself changing my style when switching between the Safari and let's say, the TWSBI.

Edited November 3, 2014 by proton007

[mirosc]

Remember: the Safari was released as a school pen in the early 1980s and it's purpose was to lead the children to a good, effortless grip according to the method writing was taught (other school pens over here have a similar grip section, but they just don't get that much attention abroad)

 

So - when are used to a different way of holding the pen it's quite natural that the Safari might feel awkward.

 

If your way of writing with a fountain pen is good for you there's no need to change anything in that, it only makes life more difficult.

Just get another pen that supports your way writing better than the Safari.

[freewheelingvagabond]

This is precisely the reason I fell out of love with Lamy Safari.

[KBeezie]

This is precisely the reason I fell out of love with Lamy Safari.

 

Same here. My grip most resembles what Olson has showed above, much more relaxed, hand spread a little more rather than crunching up my palm to the tip.

 

My guess is that some of the Lamy pens (particularly the Safari and pens with matching grips) caters more easily to people migrating from ballpoints to fountain pen and are more likely to write at roughly a higher angle.

 

But you can still hold the pen in a more relaxed form even with the fingers to the side, it's just not something I could ever get used to doing without writing nearly sideways.

 

Since I expect nearly all my fountain pens to write simply by their own weight gliding across the paper, I find the relaxed resting position to be the most comfortable, since the pen is going to write regardless with me just dragging it along. It's when I have to add pressure that it annoys me or causes cramps after a while.

[Bo Bo Olson]

The classic tripod grip is what the P-75 and the Safari gives you.

The problem with the classic tripod at least for me, is if you don't take a lot of effort to learn to grip it so very lightly, it becomes a death grip.

 

I read from those who can and do write well who I respect their Hand and knoledge, the classic tripod is best..... for precise nib work.

If one can grip the pen like a featherless baby bird, and don't make baby bird paste.

The forefinger up was used by noted writing masters of the 19th century. So it is not a real horrible way to hold a pen. I like it. It solved my painful death grip.

 

One needs a version of the tripod if one does Italic Calligraphy, where the pen is held before the big knuckle, & the nib is canted 45 degrees to push-pull the nib while drawing letters. (I like the big wide nibs...in I need to see what I am doing. When one has more experience and don't need the book any more. One can go to the smaller nibs.)

 

This 'forefinger up' method of grasping a pen, teaches you with in three minutes how to grasp a pen lightly.

 

Learning to grip the classic tripod lightly can take months as I read, including some one yanking the pen out of your grip....to see if you are holding it lightly or if you are using the death grip.

If some day you wish to use the 'classic tripod', you will know what pressure it needs.

 

If you feel fatigue with a returning to a death grip in classic, you can always switch back to 'forefinger up.'

 

I wished to be fair and not say my way is best. It is for me.

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2014 by Bo Bo Olson

[aawhite]

I write with the "arm movement". I find it hard to use a Safari (and a Pilot Capless) with the natural orientation of my grip.