***rhodia To Consider Developing Fountain Pen Friendly Engineering Pads! We Need Your Support!***

[MMarchesan]

Hi Everyone

 

My name is Michael Marchesan. I am an engineering student who regularly uses fountain pens. I love doing almost all of my writing on engineering paper but found that it does not take to fountain pen inks very well. After doing some research, I did not find any Engineering Pads that were suited for fountain pen inks.

 

But instead of stopping there, I decided to write to Rhodia proposing a new idea in product development and they took to my request well and created a post on their blog "Rhodia Drive" and the idea is a hit with viewers!!

 

If they can get enough support from the public they will consider actually putting this idea into manufacturing and distribution!

 

So PLEASE!! Spread the word here on FPN, YouTube, and to anyone that you know that would like this idea!

 

PLEASE comment on the link provided from Rhodia Drive so they can see the product being supported by us!

 

http://rhodiadrive.com/2014/10/13/who-would-like-to-see-fountain-pen-friendly-rhodia-engineering-paper/

 

Also, special thanks to Brian Goulet of Goulet Pens who mentioned my inquiry in his latest Q&A which tripled the # of comments on the Rhodia Drive Blog. He mentions the idea at 21:29 in the link provided below!

 

 

We need as much support as we can if this idea is to be developed so please do anything you can and this idea will come to life!!

[stevesurf]

Hi Everyone

 

My name is Michael Marchesan. I am an engineering student who regularly uses fountain pens. I love doing almost all of my writing on engineering paper but found that it does not take to fountain pen inks very well. After doing some research, I did not find any Engineering Pads that were suited for fountain pen inks.

 

But instead of stopping there, I decided to write to Rhodia proposing a new idea in product development and they took to my request well and created a post on their blog "Rhodia Drive" and the idea is a hit with viewers!!

 

If they can get enough support from the public they will consider actually putting this idea into manufacturing and distribution!

 

So PLEASE!! Spread the word here on FPN, YouTube, and to anyone that you know that would like this idea!

 

PLEASE comment on the link provided from Rhodia Drive so they can see the product being supported by us!

 

http://rhodiadrive.com/2014/10/13/who-would-like-to-see-fountain-pen-friendly-rhodia-engineering-paper/

 

Also, special thanks to Brian Goulet of Goulet Pens who mentioned my inquiry in his latest Q&A which tripled the # of comments on the Rhodia Drive Blog. He mentions the idea at 21:29 in the link provided below!

 

 

We need as much support as we can if this idea is to be developed so please do anything you can and this idea will come to life!!

 

 

It is a wonderful idea and here's my comment on RD:

 

By Stephen Surfaro on October 18th, 2014 at 12:06 am

I’m so glad someone came up with this brilliant idea! I’m a security educator and designer; I do all of my system design sketches on dot paper which is ok, but I really enjoy using the Circa Rhodia products. Please come out with this and even consider this as a Kickstarter. I’d pledge a ten pack

 

 

I really could use this now! Something always gets "lost in translation" when I go from pen sketches to CAD or Omnigraffle layouts. Every article I write needs an illustration and this would give the publisher an option to even just use the raw sketches as the grid lines would be in the background. They could therefore easily change the background color or just keep it transparent.

 

Rhodia Engineering Paper would be the best of both worlds

[ink-syringe]

Tell them to make music paper while they are at it. sheesh.

[Namru]

Tell them I'd like their paper by the roll. Ilford sells me paper by roll, then hopefully Rhodia could. Put it at the top of my drafting table and I could just roll some down when I need a new sheet.

[cellmatrix]

Tell them to make music paper while they are at it. sheesh.

Clairefontaine, the parent company, makes music paper Edited October 20, 2014 by cellmatrix

[cpmcnamara]

Chemical engineer here who lives by Rhodia. This would be awesome, as engineering paper in general is usually thin and crappy (despite my nostalgic love for it). I hope Rhodia would consider keeping it in a traditional light green color - I wouldn't need white as I could just keep printing realms of HP 32#.

 

That said, I will say that in industry must engineers don't use engineering paper anymore. My company is very old school engineering, and even we use standard gridded paper these days. I do love engineering paper though, and I especially loved using it in school where calculations are much more intense. Though even in school I was unique when turning in assignments in engineering grid paper, as I'm assuming you are now.

Edited October 20, 2014 by cpmcnamara

[j.a.j.]

Would be great, though i would prefer millimetre paper's scale..

[HamFist]

Dot pad kinda replaced engineering paper and you can use both sides too.

[bogiesan]

I applaud the idea and I believe there must be room in a giant like Rhodia's inventory for a huge selection of wildly different paper imprints. If it came is a Webbie format, I might even buy a couple.

[Hardcase]

Michael, that's a great idea! I added my two cents' worth to your comments on Rhodia's page.

 

-Drew

[Icywolfe]

They should make printer paper too.

[PJohnP]

Another engineer here who just completed a week of design review with a technology company. Trust me that a sizable fraction of the room of reviewers were using both paper and computer for notetaking. Engineering sheets were in use by the paper documenters, including me, but I was using my own design of paper for notetaking, which doesn't include the typical "checked by" initial block, and is "junior" size to boot.

 

It may be time to reconsider the grid vs. dot paper paradigm a bit. These are not mutually exclusive concepts if we consider that a very faint grid could be overlaid on the dot matrix of a page. This could manage to fit the "best of both worlds" idea, in that we can't always get good sketches with the dots alone, but for most things, the dots do the job extremely well. It's probably worth several of us interested in this running up some proofs-of-concept.

 

The title block is another area for some significant consideration. In my designs, I've reduced the title block section significantly as I was working in a smaller and more portable size configuration. I've discovered that the larger old project-oriented title blocks weren't necessary, as most meeting notes and drawings are no longer going through a review process, nor are the notes requiring the sorts of archival data that we had two or more decades back in design. The project title, work element, and date suffice for most issues, but a reasonably long line for the project title leaves room open for a project number as well.

 

The other area that I've moved into with this over time is using two sided printing, and not the old "one item per sheet of paper" concept. Working in a smaller size drove this to a large degree, but I also discovered that it cut down significantly on the physical file sizes with a 50% reduction in the number of pages. The other argument against this in the last twenty years was that one couldn't scan two-sided pages readily, a point of discussion that's (mostly) disappeared for office printer/scanners, and even a fair fraction of the small office AIO printer/scanner/fax machines (unless one's at the bottom of the price point curve).

 

Lastly, there needs to be some consideration of the "spine-side" of the paper for punching and/or binding in the layout. I've printed and used my engineering sheets to fit into the Circa/Arc format for years, but one has to carefully layout the pages to allow for this, as many two-sided printed sheets make no allowance for punching/binding.

 

A few ideas to bat around here on FPN...

 

 

 

John P.

[Ghost Plane]

I like your thinking, John!

[Anne-Sophie]

Clairefontaine makes printer paper as well as music paper, their products line is more extensive than Rhodia.

 

The problem is distribution, some Clairefontaine/Rhodia/Exacompta products are not exported outside of Europe.

[stevesurf]

Another engineer here who just completed a week of design review with a technology company. Trust me that a sizable fraction of the room of reviewers were using both paper and computer for notetaking. Engineering sheets were in use by the paper documenters, including me, but I was using my own design of paper for notetaking, which doesn't include the typical "checked by" initial block, and is "junior" size to boot.

 

It may be time to reconsider the grid vs. dot paper paradigm a bit. These are not mutually exclusive concepts if we consider that a very faint grid could be overlaid on the dot matrix of a page. This could manage to fit the "best of both worlds" idea, in that we can't always get good sketches with the dots alone, but for most things, the dots do the job extremely well. It's probably worth several of us interested in this running up some proofs-of-concept.

 

The title block is another area for some significant consideration. In my designs, I've reduced the title block section significantly as I was working in a smaller and more portable size configuration. I've discovered that the larger old project-oriented title blocks weren't necessary, as most meeting notes and drawings are no longer going through a review process, nor are the notes requiring the sorts of archival data that we had two or more decades back in design. The project title, work element, and date suffice for most issues, but a reasonably long line for the project title leaves room open for a project number as well.

 

The other area that I've moved into with this over time is using two sided printing, and not the old "one item per sheet of paper" concept. Working in a smaller size drove this to a large degree, but I also discovered that it cut down significantly on the physical file sizes with a 50% reduction in the number of pages. The other argument against this in the last twenty years was that one couldn't scan two-sided pages readily, a point of discussion that's (mostly) disappeared for office printer/scanners, and even a fair fraction of the small office AIO printer/scanner/fax machines (unless one's at the bottom of the price point curve).

 

Lastly, there needs to be some consideration of the "spine-side" of the paper for punching and/or binding in the layout. I've printed and used my engineering sheets to fit into the Circa/Arc format for years, but one has to carefully layout the pages to allow for this, as many two-sided printed sheets make no allowance for punching/binding.

 

A few ideas to bat around here on FPN...

 

 

 

John P.

 

John, please post these great comments in the thread on Rhodia Drive in case that may be the only place the Rhodia folks look. I second the smaller title block and the Circa-style punching ability.

[PJohnP]

I like your thinking, John!

Thanks.

 

One thing that I need to work out is how to overlay the line-grid successfully (exactly) on the dot-grid. Overlays are quite possible, but tend not to align neatly, making the result a bit of a messy one. I'm still working on that concept. Any and all suggestions on generating this with something like a light grey or blue dot and still lighter gridlines will gratefully received. Sizing for Imperial or metric will be easy, I'd think, but suggestions on those points are also welcomed.

 

I'm attaching an example of the kind of simplified sheet that I was describing. I've developed this in about a dozen variants over time, both in full size and "junior" sizes.

 

For the most part, I've found that printing my own materials has worked well, although I've also found that I'm then much more picky about the result than I might have been with a print centre doing the work ! <wry smile> It's more complicated in that I can print out proofs-of-concept quickly and easily, to then look them over more carefully. "Carefully" has seemed to mean that I typically find something else to vary and re-design even if it's a very small matter. "The perfect is the enemy of the good" is an apt aphorism about this pursuit.

 

It's also tricky to get all of the settings neatly aligned so that two sided printing works well. Further complicating this discussion is that every darned printer has slightly different settings and paper alignment, so making recommendations for anything other than one specific printer is futile. Anyone undertaking this approach should be prepared for some significant time getting the printer to deliver the desired outcome(s). Some laser printers will, for example, allow for two-Junior-pages-per-sheet printing, then double-sided print this. Others will let one accomplish this, but require manually duplexing. Sigh.

 

If one does a cost-benefit analysis, it's likely a better idea to let a professional print centre do all of these things, but then, if we FPNers were contented with a printer's decisions on all of this, the topics here on FPN related to this subject would be barren of posts...

 

 

 

John P.

Edited October 25, 2014 by PJohnP

[PJohnP]

 

John, please post these great comments in the thread on Rhodia Drive in case that may be the only place the Rhodia folks look. I second the smaller title block and the Circa-style punching ability.

 

I'd suggest batting ideas around here at FPN, and then, after some successful incremental improvements, perhaps posting to Rhodia Drive.

 

Have a look at the example that I posted above and see if that's of interest to you for some added suggestions for improvement. Who knows, we might end up with an "FPN engineering paper design" out of this...

 

 

John P.

[PJohnP]

Quick added note to my post above with the attachment - this very obviously does not show the edges of a sheet of paper, so imagine placing this on a half of an 8½ x 11 sheet of paper.

 

 

 

 

John P.

[dgturner]

My comment on Rhodia Drive:

I work in IT and use fountain pens for all of my daily notes on Rhodia Circa paper. All of my diagramming, charting, etc. is done either on Doane gridded paper I have printed (the lines are distracting) or Circa grid paper neither of which are ideal. Rhodia engineering paper would be perfect! Please manufacture this product.

 

Circa compatability would be a definite plus!

[Lou Erickson]

Clairefontaine makes printer paper as well as music paper, their products line is more extensive than Rhodia.

 

The problem is distribution, some Clairefontaine/Rhodia/Exacompta products are not exported outside of Europe.

Mmm, feeding the Clairfontaine Triomphe through my laser printer would be yummy. I hadn't thought of that. I can print on A4...