Who Is Gullible Enough To Buy Third Tier Pens?

[JonSzanto]

Some people on FPN count Esterbrooks as 3rd tier, but I'm not sure I agree with that assessment. Personally I would call them 2nd tier, because they're really well built for the money, and the company seemed to put all their R&D into the nib units.

 

Definitely agree on the 2nd tier status of Esties! They aren't as glamorous as most of the Tier 1 pens, but they have held up remarkably well over the decades, and the nibs and hardware on the pens is a big step up from the true Tier 3 pens, which have mostly lost their plating, become corroded or rusted by now. And I'll second your comment about picking up a few T3 pens for a couple bucks to practice pen restorations, sac changes, etc. Really a great way to learn without worrying about destroying a much more valuable object.

 

Ruth mentioned Morrison, and I remembered some pics from a while back: here is a nice Parker "Parkette", along with a Morrison ringtop, both for under $20. One could reasonable argue that a lesser line from an established company, like the Parkette, could constitute a 2nd tier pen; I suppose that often these are judgement calls.

 

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb204/EnvoyC/FP/pampm_zpsa4162d2e.jpg

The Morrison has a very nice flex nib, just this side of a noodle, and no signs of cracks or stress that would indicate a thinner nib...

 

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb204/EnvoyC/FP/morrison1_zps08049b32.jpg

Edited October 20, 2014 by JonSzanto

[Brian Anderson]

We need to define 3rd tier pens.

 

So far only the pens mentioned that count are Bo Bo's Wearevers. The rest are just overpriced wanna be 3rd tier pens.

 

I've got a warped combo, a Traveler, a Congress, and a Warped American that I'm truly embarrassed about.

What about Stratfords? I have a bulb filler with clear barrel. But the plastic is cool!

 

Had a large collection of wearevers. Sold off the crud and kept the well, almost crud - the deluxe, hard rubber, ones with 14kt framed nibs, etc.

[FarmBoy]

What about Stratfords? I have a bulb filler with clear barrel. But the plastic is cool!

 

Had a large collection of wearevers. Sold off the crud and kept the well, almost crud - the deluxe, hard rubber, ones with 14kt framed nibs, etc.

I have a secret vault for the Stratfords. I like the ones with the word gauges on them. I take them out in early April every year.

 

Since I have you on the line...Esterbrooks are officially 2nd Tier in a place all of their own,,,,right?

[Brian Anderson]

Esterbrooks are second tier, but then where do Wirt, Aikin Lambert, John Holland fit in? Not quite first tier due to production, but first tier quality (realizing this is more serious than the outright tone of the post)

[welch]

As I remember it, the tiers were an American rating...no judgment on British or European pens.

 

- First Tier, as of about 1945 ("Big Four): Parker, Sheaffer, Eversharp, Waterman. Gift pens (graduation) or used by doctors and lawyers. Top-of-the-line had gold nibs

 

- Second Tier: no agreement, no definition. Mostly, anything better than Third Tier but not as fancy and expensive as First Tier. Esterbrook?

 

- Third Tier: Stratford, Arnold, EPenco, American, Wearever. Arnold, from Petersburg, VA, made ballpoints until a few years ago. Wearever made ballpoints into the '70s, at least. Mass-market pens. Steel nibs: cheaper nibs had the tines folded under to make a tip, like Esterbrook's 2xxx nibs. Better nibs had a special tipping material welded on.

 

I discovered that many of these pens had barrels that would accept sections from other, sometimes better, pens. I once scorched an Esterbrook barrel, so the section went into a Majestic. Wearever and Esterbrook would seem a good pairing, except that Esterbrook parts don't fail unless, like me, you are using a heat-gun for the first time.

 

A tip: Eversharp made the best nibs ever. They did not quite understand plastic when they made they Skyline, so that pen is fragile. I once had a cap shatter in my hand as I rubbed it with sunshine cloth. I haven't tried a Skyline section and nib in a Wearever barrel, but most Wearevers seem to survive anything except a direct hit from a sledge-hammer.

[I like mango cheesecake]

My Ahab: piece of junk

My jinhao 599: piece of shyt

My Serwex: garbaged even before inking

Edited October 22, 2014 by I like mango cheesecake

[Abner C. Kemp]

I'm still unsure of what qualifies as a third tier pen but I have a bunch of cheapos.

 

Serwex: Probably the worst pen I've ever owned. It was trashed.

 

Jinhao X450: Not terrible, not in the lineup either.

 

Esterbrook J-Series: Is this a 3rd tier?? I like the pen just fine.

 

Sheaffer No-Nonsense: Actually one of my favorite pens.

 

Venus President: Decent 14K nib, a bit dry.

 

Ahab & Nib Creeper: They are what they are.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Abner C. Kemp

[JonSzanto]

Seeing the last two posts, and some of the others, I'm going to put this out there and then be happy if someone corrects or amends it:

 

In general, when pen people are talking about 1st, 2nd, 3rd... tier pens, it is most often referring to vintage pens, and companies that (often) no longer exist. During the heyday of fountain pens, there were many companies, large and small. Some put out as many pens as they could, as cheaply as they could; others, naturally, made a fine, high-market pen, and even if they had lower lines, still used materials and components that were of a much higher quality than the lower tier pens.

 

There will always be, as in casual designations and segregations such as these, a lot of grey area. It is quite possible that some of the inexpensive pens of today - Noodler's, some of the Indian brands, kit pens - will some day be put into a 3rd tier category, but I couldn't say for certain. What I will say is that if you handle enough cheap vintage pens, you pretty much get a feel for what a "3rd tier" pen is like.

[amk]

I wonder where we would put today's pen companies in terms of the tiers? I don't think today's Parkers are first tier, actually. Faber Castell/GvFC and Pelikan yes. Waterman maybe.

 

It's interesting that the vintage tiers really apply to American companies and production. I think we have a pretty evolved idea for Germany, too (Pelikan, MB, Soennecken in the top tier; Reform down the bottom), but for France and the UK, I'm not so sure.

 

So let me hazard a guess for the UK: top tier might include Onoto and Conway Stewart. Burnham and Wyvern, I'm guessing, second tier. Platignum is probably, at least early on, the UK's 'Wearever' - pretty, quite decently made pens of no great value but fun to collect (later on, Platignum just becomes worthless tawdry, from about the late 40's I think).

 

It's also interesting I think that the tiers have no reference to price point. A Waterman Patrician is obviously a very expensive pen - it was in its day and it is now - but Waterman as a first tier company is Tier 1 even when you're looking at a relatively ordinary pen at the bottom of its range. A Parker moderne qualifies just as much as a Parker 51 or Aztec. We're looking for quality, we're looking for companies that have broad market range (not tiny niche companies however good their quality), we're looking for innovators.

Edited October 22, 2014 by amk

[inkstainedruth]

Ran across something today (might have been on Richard Binder's site) that called Morrisons 2nd tier. IIRC, the definition of "2nd tier" was that they weren't as innovative or original, but did make some high-quality pens (for which at least two of the Morrisons I have would fit the definition).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstaiendruthr

[Ode2theflow]

I received a shipment of pens from ebay last week and found this little gem included, after corresponding with the seller and explaining that I had not bid on such a lowly item I was told to keep it. Obviously, I was obligated to give it a bit of a cleaning and resac it. I can't possibly be seen using this warped beast, but it's really a pleasure to write with.

 

http://i.imgur.com/QdhT2V1.jpg?1

I just refurb one it is waiting for me to get sacs. Who wouldn't love these colors. By the way I came here because I came across a pen and looking up the name found it right here at home.. the pen is a Epenco

 

 

I too am one of those suckers, and for all the same reasons, except my parents graduated in 59 and 62. I was first attracted to fountain pens by rich friends who use MBs. Knowing I would never own one of those, I decided to go for the old colorful vintage pens that no one else cares about. Cheap, easy to fix and I still get that warm fuzzy feeling when I resurrect one.

 

 

 

You are shameless in your attention-whoring. Nonetheless, here I go.

 

 

You'll catch on eventually.

 

 

Stick around, it will become clear. Or Google it. Hallowed territory, it is.

 

 

That pen is TWERKING!!!

 

Ok, now for my story:

 

OF COURSE I DO!!!

 

3rd-tier (not to be confused with 4th- through 17th-tier) pens are the sweet spot of the vintage industry: if you are lucky, they work; if you are lucky, the hardware doesn't crumble into dust; if you are lucky, they are moderately straight (unless you like to write around corners); if you are lucky, those aluminum foil nibs are as smooth and even as the day they were made.

 

No, naysayers, these are not pens to be overlooked, but it requires a market-savvy mind of the highest order. It is far too easy to overpay on these items (just ask me, one who paid a dark lord far, far too much for a box of junkers that can only dream of being writers, much less respectable writers). But, in time, you know the ones you want (well, *I* do - FarmBoy still pulls in the totally oddball pieces of junk): those pens that, well, meh on the hardware, the nibs probably need to go, and you'll have a bit of a time getting the guts sussed out, but... Talk About Wild Celluloids and Plastics!!!

 

So much fun to collect the lesser-knowns. I am certain that I have, or will certainly, in not too much time, I am just sure of it, corner the market on the venerable Wearbrook Esterevers:

 

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb204/EnvoyC/FP/ee2x_zps0a8d4b88.jpg

 

And, yeah, I'll upload some more pics of those, as soon as I find them. Buried under all the Stratfords, Travellers, and other gems.

I came across a few of these little dream nightmares, as a matter of fact there was a tiny little no name 3"er ribbon ring that had its nib broke at the tip, while trying to dislodge the nib from its dried ink coffin, I broke it at the base. I decided after few days of cleaning to put that tiny little nib (I evened out and aligned) back into its tiny little body and believe it or not its alive and writes. Upside down but it writes and not bad at that, it is in need of the sac also along with a barrage of others all cleaned & patiently waiting.

I am new to this and taken by the warm fuzzy tingling feeling of a cleaned pen in your hand , while anticipating the flow of ink onto the blank pallet.. I clean these little pieces of the past, often wishing they could reveal to me their stories; although in a way they do. They then thank me for bringing them back to write again. I must say it's love, true love

[peterg]

'I still do not understand what third tier means...'

 

The problem with ascribing tiers to manufacturers is that they tended to both go down hill (market) over time and have a spread of products.

 

Looking at Conway Stewart they covered the first tier, mostly produced second tier pens but also covered the third tier with their Scribe pens but by the end their pens were fourth or fifth tier i.e nasty plastic with steel nibs.

 

So for me the tier can only be applied to the pen and not the manufacturer, although many, especially the American manufacturers, tended to go for specific segments of the market

 

For me first tier pens were the status symbol pen - over lays, oversize Vacumatics, Duofold Seniors etc.

Second tier would be the quality pens - standard vacs and Duofolds, CS 286, 475.

Third tier would be quality pens built down to a price, usually with smaller gold nibs - Parker depression pens, CS Scribe, 479

Fourth tier - pens of variable quality generally with steel nibs and finally

Fifth tier - the dross of production - melleable plastic mated to scratchy steel nibs

[thatotherguy1]

Considering the fact that Esterbrooks were, at one point, considered lower second tier if not third tier pens, why yes, yes I am gullible enough to buy a third tier pen.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Third tier=the pen the man had as minimum wage day labor.

 

Wearever did make some second tier pens as good as an Esterbrook....and was the true King of penmakers....making more pens than anyone in the world by far....pens for anyone who wanted to put their name on a pen....cheap.

 

I had some Wearever Deluxe pens, a couple pre and a couple just after the war. Sturdy pens.

The Pacemaker, and Zenith were fairly good pens, near Esterbrook quality, I read.

[JotterAddict62]

Most of the 3rd tier pens I collect [ not by choice ] is when I see a Parker that I need to rescue.

Then I end up with a cigar box full of 3rd tier FP's, ballpoints & mech pencils.

[inkeverywhere]

Ya gotta have some FP that you can lend out.

Great response...but lend a FP?

 

That's why Mr Bic invented his pens, for us FP types! But I guess that has been discussed in many other posts.

 

Greg

Edited February 28, 2015 by inkeverywhere

[FarmBoy]

We have the 'Box of Gullibility" courtesy of travberg. All items in the box are $5 each or 3 for $10. Every item is guaranteed to be worth at least $1.83 or the box will buy it back for $2.

 

All you need to do to participate is take out a few pens and put money in the bottom of the box.

 

Farmboy, aka keeper of the box.

[balson]

What about Stratfords? I have a bulb filler with clear barrel. But the plastic is cool!

 

Had a large collection of wearevers. Sold off the crud and kept the well, almost crud - the deluxe, hard rubber, ones with 14kt framed nibs, etc.

 

I just picked up one of those the other day. the styling on them is so bizarre. its like they are a frankenpen out of the box. It works pretty well with a FPR nib in it though.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hbTrt_nGnRo/VPIKHr2xpuI/AAAAAAAABb4/1WIGSlO4wIk/s1600/stratford.jpg

[DanDeM]

They're certainly not boring.

 

The Orange one was a buck at the last LA Show

This one was a little more than that.

[pen2paper]

the orange with gold tinsel is very similar to one celluloid used on Shirley Temple pen sets