Help Getting Started

[dgreenwood116]

Hey guys and girls,

 

I have been into fountain pens for a while and now i'm moving into wanting to make them...blah blah ... same thing, different person. Anyway, I have some crafty background on many tools though I've never touched a lathe. I have been researching which one i want, though I've been confused of what chuck to buy to hold the acrylic, wood blanks?? I'm not even 100% certain that's what I need, so if not correct me! I've looked at some 4 jawed chucks... they all seem to hold dowel style items/ circles... what all attachments for the lathe would you all recommend?

[dali3464]

4-jaw chucks are fine. Although I've realised the independently-adjusting jaws can sometimes be a bit of a pain.

 

However, I find collets are better, as they have less of a tendency to crack acrylic stock. I opt for ER32 collets, as they go in increments of 1mm (up to a max of 20mm) so they're adept at holding all the odd sizes you come across in pen turning.

 

Note: I use a metal lathe, but from what I've read in various forums, many folks also use ER32 collets for wood lathes as well. It seems a big advantage is the convenience of being able to swap the collet (with the stock) from a metal lathe to a wood lathe (and vice versa) for different turning operations.

[Bruce Markwardt]

If you have a drill press you really don't need a chuck to get started. If you don't, and are planning to drill on the lathe, most any chuck will work. I have a Nova with several different sets of jaws. If I were rich I would have a chuck for each set of jaws.

 

Once you get beyond drilling, assuming you are going to start with kit pens, a mandrel is what you need. Start with a kit and go from there.

 

Spend some time on the IAP website. Tons of info there in the drums and library. There is also a bunch of good stuff on YouTube.

[dgreenwood116]

4-jaw chucks are fine. Although I've realised the independently-adjusting jaws can sometimes be a bit of a pain.

 

However, I find collets are better, as they have less of a tendency to crack acrylic stock. I opt for ER32 collets, as they go in increments of 1mm (up to a max of 20mm) so they're adept at holding all the odd sizes you come across in pen turning.

 

Note: I use a metal lathe, but from what I've read in various forums, many folks also use ER32 collets for wood lathes as well. It seems a big advantage is the convenience of being able to swap the collet (with the stock) from a metal lathe to a wood lathe (and vice versa) for different turning operations.

I was indeed thinking about that and how it would be tedious to independently adjust each section of the jaws. I'm still completely in over my head though and i guess i will have to do more research before i can start. I was hoping to jump into to it rather quickly, there's a lot to learn though!

 

Thank you for the advice, i'm going to look into the collets!

I'm starting to notice that most blanks are 3/4" so a 19-20mm collet would work? Also If you find a square blank do you have to find a square 20mm collet to hold it? ( Sorry if that's a silly question)

 

 

If you have a drill press you really don't need a chuck to get started. If you don't, and are planning to drill on the lathe, most any chuck will work. I have a Nova with several different sets of jaws. If I were rich I would have a chuck for each set of jaws.

 

Once you get beyond drilling, assuming you are going to start with kit pens, a mandrel is what you need. Start with a kit and go from there.

 

Spend some time on the IAP website. Tons of info there in the drums and library. There is also a bunch of good stuff on YouTube.

I don't currently have a drill press though i've looked at them. I am planning on doing the drilling with the lathe and definitely starting with some kit pens.

 

Is there anything I would need to hold the drill bit so I can drill the blank?

 

 

 

Thanks guys!

[dali3464]

I was indeed thinking about that and how it would be tedious to independently adjust each section of the jaws. I'm still completely in over my head though and i guess i will have to do more research before i can start. I was hoping to jump into to it rather quickly, there's a lot to learn though!

 

Thank you for the advice, i'm going to look into the collets!

I'm starting to notice that most blanks are 3/4" so a 19-20mm collet would work? Also If you find a square blank do you have to find a square 20mm collet to hold it? ( Sorry if that's a silly question)

 

Not a silly question at all! Holding square blanks is a bit of a problem. The only collets (so far as I know that are reasonable for pen turners) that can hold square stock are 5C square collets (ER32 collets hold only round stock). The problem at this stage is do you bother purchasing 5C square collets? I didn't. It seems superfluous to purchase a collet (and its holder, which can be expensive) simply for one minor operation that a 4-jawed chuck can handle.

 

For collets, I would advice purchasing a set of 10 ER32 collets covering the range of 10-20mm. They do go down to 1mm, but it's rather unlikely you'll be turning anything that small in pen turning. But I would think 10-20mm is the minimum, especially if you're turning on a wood lathe when there's less control over the exactness of your final dimensions, so a good range of collets will offer a bit more safety in case you turn the stock down to an odd size. For e.g. with a 13x0.75 3-lead cap thread, the threads on the section (or body) will be 13mm in diameter, but you might want to turn the remainder of the body down to a graceful taper (rather than strictly straight). So you'll need a decent range of collets to accomodate whichever diameter the body is turned.

[Bruce Markwardt]

You guys have me a little confused. The 4 jaw chucks I'm familiar with do not have independently adjusting jaws. They are scroll chucks. All of the jaws turn simultaneously.

 

All my experience has been on wood lathes. I use Nova's pen jaws (Penn State sells something similar) to hold square or even odd shaped blanks for drilling. They are not super accurate but they are good enough for drilling a blank for a kit pen. Alternatively, you can start between centers and turn the blank round and then put it in a 4 jaw chuck for drilling.

 

As I do mostly kit less, I use collets for most of my work and could not live without them. But for somebody starting with kit pens I don't see a need for collets.

[duncsuss]

Before trying to decide what attachments you have to buy, you must first decide: "Wood lathe or Metal lathe?" It might help to learn the relative merits of each, and what attachments are available for each, before choosing -- but there's no point buying accessories before deciding which type of lathe you'll get.

 

You guys have me a little confused. The 4 jaw chucks I'm familiar with do not have independently adjusting jaws. They are scroll chucks. All of the jaws turn simultaneously.

 

Correct -- a wood lathe 4-jaw chuck is a scroll chuck, the jaws move together on the "scroll", and the circular shape surrounds the workpiece.

 

Metal 4-jaw chucks are typically independent jaws -- and do not form a circle that surrounds the workpiece, they are like fingers.

[dgreenwood116]

Before trying to decide what attachments you have to buy, you must first decide: "Wood lathe or Metal lathe?" It might help to learn the relative merits of each, and what attachments are available for each, before choosing -- but there's no point buying accessories before deciding which type of lathe you'll get.

 

 

Correct -- a wood lathe 4-jaw chuck is a scroll chuck, the jaws move together on the "scroll", and the circular shape surrounds the workpiece.

 

Metal 4-jaw chucks are typically independent jaws -- and do not form a circle that surrounds the workpiece, they are like fingers.

Thats true, as from what I hear metal lathes have more precision than wood lathes. Although I do plan on getting a wood lathe to start out on, since deciding that I moved on to what accessories I would need to start turning. I didn't mention that in the thread so i see how that was a bit confusing, i apologize. Thanks for the info though, I've decided that i would get two accessories for starting:

 

a tailstock drill chuck

a 3 jaw chuck http://www.harborfreight.com/2-inch-mini-lathe-chuck-with-mt-1-shank-65132.html Maybe?

 

Is there anything else i should look into?

[duncsuss]

Thats true, as from what I hear metal lathes have more precision than wood lathes. Although I do plan on getting a wood lathe to start out on, since deciding that I moved on to what accessories I would need to start turning. I didn't mention that in the thread so i see how that was a bit confusing, i apologize. Thanks for the info though, I've decided that i would get two accessories for starting:

 

a tailstock drill chuck

a 3 jaw chuck http://www.harborfreight.com/2-inch-mini-lathe-chuck-with-mt-1-shank-65132.html Maybe?

 

Is there anything else i should look into?

 

1) A tailstock drill chuck is good. Get either the type with a key or the keyless variety.

 

2) IMO that 3 jaw chuck is worse than useless. Don't do it.

 

3) Get a collet chuck that screws onto the lathe drive shaft, not the morse-taper insert kind (unless it comes with a drawbar so you can lock it into the headstock). When a collet chuck works loose, all accuracy goes out the window. Get one that is ER-32, not the unspecified variety that you can't buy additional collets for when you want them later. (Beall makes one, and Craft Supplies USA sell one -- woodturnerscatalog.com.)

 

4) Get a straight-shaft 60 degree dead center that you can hold in one of the collets in the collet chuck you buy (e.g. 1/2 inch) There's a guy on IAP (penturners.org) who makes them -- I think his name is Rick Herrill.

 

5) Get a 60 degree conical live center with a morse taper to match the tailstock of your lathe, probably MT #2 unless you get a very strange lathe.

[dgreenwood116]

 

1) A tailstock drill chuck is good. Get either the type with a key or the keyless variety.

 

2) IMO that 3 jaw chuck is worse than useless. Don't do it.

 

3) Get a collet chuck that screws onto the lathe drive shaft, not the morse-taper insert kind (unless it comes with a drawbar so you can lock it into the headstock). When a collet chuck works loose, all accuracy goes out the window. Get one that is ER-32, not the unspecified variety that you can't buy additional collets for when you want them later. (Beall makes one, and Craft Supplies USA sell one -- woodturnerscatalog.com.)

 

4) Get a straight-shaft 60 degree dead center that you can hold in one of the collets in the collet chuck you buy (e.g. 1/2 inch) There's a guy on IAP (penturners.org) who makes them -- I think his name is Rick Herrill.

 

5) Get a 60 degree conical live center with a morse taper to match the tailstock of your lathe, probably MT #2 unless you get a very strange lathe.

I figured that was the case for the harbor freight chuck and with your help this is what i've come up with.

 

60 degree conical: http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/108/-/10001000/Apprentice-60-Degree-Revolving-Cone-Center-No.-2-MT

 

Collet Chuck and Collets: http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/101/-/10001002/Apprentice-Collet-Chuck-1%22-8-tpi-&-3-4%22-16-tpi-7-Piece-Set

 

Pen Mandrel: http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/16/-/5525/Artisan-Adjustable-Pen-Mandrel-No.-2-MT

 

Drill Chuck: http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/104/-/2933/Turners-Select-1-2%22-Key-Drill-Chuck-No.-2-MT

 

The lathe does have a MT#2 Tailstock, and also i'm not certain about the collets. I didn't know which one to choose for the headstock spindle, would this be something i would have to look at or something that is pre-determinable?

Thanks again for the help though!

• Available in 1–1/4"–8tpi with 1"–8tpi spindle adapter or 1"–8tpi with 3/4"–16tpi spindle adapter

[Kuryaka]

Make sure your lathe headstock size matches up with the collet chuck spindle adapter size. The information on that should be available on the product description or manual.

My Harbor Freight lathe came with a live center, but it was one of those "very strange lathes" that have an MT1 taper. On a tight budget, I also went for the Harbor Freight 3-jaw chuck. Big mistake - besides making it very hard (and somewhat risky) to turn square blanks, 3 hard pointed metal jaws will dent almost any surface before they can get a good grip on it. While it's workable, I had to put a small slip of paper between my almost-finished barrel and the blank while finishing it.

Since you're working with kit pens, that won't be a huuuge issue. The only times I've cracked my pens, even on that 3-jaw chuck, are when I was using Rhino Plastics and when I went too far with a piece of cocobolo wood with an ebonite insert. Rhino Plastic cracks fairly easily but works fine for kit pens, since you'll be using the pen mandrel for most of your turning and shaping instead of relying on the chuck.

 

My 3-jaw chuck also does a terrible job at the square blank straight, I might just try turning the blank between centers until it's round and then sticking it in the chuck.

As far as drilling goes, you're fine on the lathe with a chuck + drill chuck, run your lathe slow and drill out a little bit at a time. High rotation speed causes a lot of friction, which leads to heat and deformation/melting/burning, depending on your material. Even if nothing melts or burns, hot plastic expands a little. Once it contracts, it'll be slightly tighter than your drill bit, making subsequent drilling harder.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Kuryaka

[dgreenwood116]

Make sure your lathe headstock size matches up with the collet chuck spindle adapter size. The information on that should be available on the product description or manual.

 

My Harbor Freight lathe came with a live center, but it was one of those "very strange lathes" that have an MT1 taper. On a tight budget, I also went for the Harbor Freight 3-jaw chuck. Big mistake - besides making it very hard (and somewhat risky) to turn square blanks, 3 hard pointed metal jaws will dent almost any surface before they can get a good grip on it. While it's workable, I had to put a small slip of paper between my almost-finished barrel and the blank while finishing it.

 

Since you're working with kit pens, that won't be a huuuge issue. The only times I've cracked my pens, even on that 3-jaw chuck, are when I was using Rhino Plastics and when I went too far with a piece of cocobolo wood with an ebonite insert. Rhino Plastic cracks fairly easily but works fine for kit pens, since you'll be using the pen mandrel for most of your turning and shaping instead of relying on the chuck.

 

My 3-jaw chuck also does a terrible job at the square blank straight, I might just try turning the blank between centers until it's round and then sticking it in the chuck.

 

As far as drilling goes, you're fine on the lathe with a chuck + drill chuck, run your lathe slow and drill out a little bit at a time. High rotation speed causes a lot of friction, which leads to heat and deformation/melting/burning, depending on your material. Even if nothing melts or burns, hot plastic expands a little. Once it contracts, it'll be slightly tighter than your drill bit, making subsequent drilling harder.

That all sounds great! Hopefully i can get started pretty soon and i'll come back and post my first try.

 

Thanks guys for the help!

[duncsuss]

 

I figured that was the case for the harbor freight chuck and with your help this is what i've come up with.

 

60 degree conical: http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/108/-/10001000/Apprentice-60-Degree-Revolving-Cone-Center-No.-2-MT

 

Collet Chuck and Collets: http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/101/-/10001002/Apprentice-Collet-Chuck-1%22-8-tpi-&-3-4%22-16-tpi-7-Piece-Set

 

Pen Mandrel: http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/16/-/5525/Artisan-Adjustable-Pen-Mandrel-No.-2-MT

 

Drill Chuck: http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/104/-/2933/Turners-Select-1-2%22-Key-Drill-Chuck-No.-2-MT

 

The lathe does have a MT#2 Tailstock, and also i'm not certain about the collets. I didn't know which one to choose for the headstock spindle, would this be something i would have to look at or something that is pre-determinable?

Thanks again for the help though!

• Available in 1–1/4"–8tpi with 1"–8tpi spindle adapter or 1"–8tpi with 3/4"–16tpi spindle adapter

 

 

Those look good. (Note that since you're buying the collet chuck, you can get away with buying just a "replacement" mandrel and lock-nut rather than buying the full Morse Taper - mandrel - locknut combo.)

 

What's the make and model of lathe you're going to use? One of us following this thread might know the specifications (or could look it up.)

[dgreenwood116]

 

Those look good. (Note that since you're buying the collet chuck, you can get away with buying just a "replacement" mandrel and lock-nut rather than buying the full Morse Taper - mandrel - locknut combo.)

 

What's the make and model of lathe you're going to use? One of us following this thread might know the specifications (or could look it up.)

That would make more sense and also make it a little more cheaper! Thanks for the tip!

 

The plan is to get this one within the week. It's nothing special, but i figure it will work to get started! Also i noticed it has a MT2 tailstock and not a weird one, which is good.

http://www.harborfreight.com/5-speed-bench-top-wood-lathe-65345.html

[duncsuss]

That would make more sense and also make it a little more cheaper! Thanks for the tip!

 

The plan is to get this one within the week. It's nothing special, but i figure it will work to get started! Also i noticed it has a MT2 tailstock and not a weird one, which is good.

http://www.harborfreight.com/5-speed-bench-top-wood-lathe-65345.html

 

That's the lathe I was going to buy as my "starter" -- but the store was out of stock the day I stopped by with a 25% discount coupon. It has a decent reputation (many of the HarborFreight power tools do not have a good rep.)

 

The drive shaft is 1" x 8tpi and has an internal MT2. I've seen places that allege it's a MT1 in the headstock, but the one I inspected was MT2, and every clone of this machine (including PennState and Rockler) has MT2.

 

Remember to get a 20% (or even 25%) discount coupon before going into the store -- virtually every edition of Wood magazine or Home Handyman magazine has one (and many others -- those are the 2 I happen to get.)

 

Have fun -- welcome to the vortex

[dgreenwood116]

You're a lifesaver! I've been trying to hunt the specs of that all day!

 

Thanks for all the help!! I've fallen even deeper in with wanting to learn how to make them now! I'll post a picture soon!

[duncsuss]

Have fun, and be safe.

 

On that subject -- at a minimum you should wear impact-resistant safety glasses with side panels. I wear both safety specs and a faceshield, I'd rather not have a flying splinter hit any part of my face.

 

I got this one (rated Z87+) for less than $30.

 

btw, the general rule is "no pix, didn't happen"

[DaveM]

I bought one of those lathes last year at a garage sale. It makes a nice second lathe. I use it when I have the big lathe set up for calls, or when I want to do some production turning, or any time I need to do two things at once. It is also slightly portable, so it has let me turn pens at the cabin! The only glitch so far, is the tailstock can be a bit wobbly when loosening it up to adjust while drilling. Do this with the lathe turned off. Get it aligned as closely a possible and then advance again with the quill. The first version of this lathe had a MT-1, but the more recent ones (Mine included) have the MT-2 at both ends. Take your time aligning everything, and it will be a pretty good lathe at a great price.

 

I agree that the 4 jaw scroll chuck is the best way to go for square blanks. I have a MIDI chuck and I love it. I also have a Talon, and I never use it. The MIDI chuck is so much more accurate because it is a direct fit on the spindle. The Talon relies on an adapter and has never been true. I use dead centers, driving bushings made on the metal lathe , to turn my tubed parts, and mandrels for my kitless parts.

 

For kitless pen barrels, I chuck my rod and drill, tap, thread and turn all in one operation. This way everything stays concentric and on axis. then I part off, and turn it around on a mandrel to finish the end, or do the drilling and threading for a blind cap.

 

Good luck and have lots of fun. Also, be safe. If you have no training or experience, take a class, get a mentor and get the right gear. (face shield and safety glasses or goggles) This is an addictive hobby!