What Kind Of Script Is This?

[Vlad Soare]

Some of Hieronymus Bosch's paintings contain text written in a strange alphabet. It resembles Gothic, but it isn't.

The language is either Dutch or Latin, so I do not expect to be able to actually read it, but the strange thing is that I can't even figure out the individual letters (except maybe very few of them).

Does any of you recognize this script? Any hints on how to read it?

 

Thank you.

 

[Millefleurs]

I believe it's Carolingian.

 

Edited to add: Or more likely Blackletter, a direct descendant of Carolingian.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Millefleurs

[Vlad Soare]

Indeed, it looks like blackletter.

It's strange though, that in the blackletter samples I can recognize many letters, and I can tell them apart, while Bosch's texts look like Chinese to me.

But shape-wise it looks like blackletter. It must be a form of blackletter.

Thank you.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Vlad Soare

[mirosc]

That's a nicely executed blackletter/Textura. There are many variants of blackletter depending on time and region.

Remember that the v is written as u most of the time.

 

#1:

Meester snyt die keye ras

Myne name is lubbert das

 

Master cut the stone away

My name is Lubbert Das (a famous fool in literature)

 

#2

absconda(m) facie(m) mea(m) ab eis et considerabo nouissi(m)a eor(um)

 

I will hide my face from them and I will see the end of them

 

#3

caue caue dns (dominus) videt

 

watch out, watch out! the Lord's is watching

 

#4

Gens absq(ue) c(on)silio e(st) et sine prudentia

utina(m) sapere(n)t (et) i(n)telligere(n)t ac nouissima(m) p(ro)uidere(n)t

 

They are a nation (infidels) without counsel and without wisdom.

If they only were wise and understood and would foresee their end

 

in the upper right corner:

Deut(e)ron(nomium) 32 8

Edited October 13, 2014 by mirosc

[Vlad Soare]

Wow! Thank you Michael, that's awesome.

Can you actually identify all letters, or do you have to deduce some of them by guessing what the full word might be? I mean, in the word "Meester" the e, t and r look awfully alike (however, in "Lubbert" the t looks more like a normal t). In the word "snyt" the n and the first half of the y seem to form an m. And so on...

The Latin phrases seem to be even harder, given that parts of the words are missing. You must understand the language, and also have a pretty good idea what the text might be about, in order to decypher it.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Vlad Soare

[bluesocks]

Textura is correct. Carolingian-- not quite. This is typical Carolingian. Textura is usually quite hard to date accurately, because it was a formal script and did not change as quickly as informal scripts that were used for copying books. It's also hard to transcribe because as you can see, it looks like a forest of sticks ('minims') most of the time.

 

Nice transcription, @mirosc!

 

@Vlad Soare- yes, you do need to know Latin or at least be familiar with the abbreviations. Deus, Christ(o), and other commonly used suffixes and prefixes (I think?) were often abbreviated like you see in the painting. There is a book by Adriano Cappelli that's more or less the 'industry standard' on medieval Latin abbreviations, which I *think* would still be relevant to the "late medieval" (i.e. Bosch's) period. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!

Edited October 13, 2014 by bluesocks

[mirosc]

 

Can you actually identify all letters, or do you have to deduce some of them by guessing what the full word might be? I mean, in the word "Meester" the e, t and r look awfully alike (however, in "Lubbert" the t looks more like a normal t). In the word "snyt" the n and the first half of the y seem to form an m. And so on...

The Latin phrases seem to be even harder, given that parts of the words are missing. You must understand the language, and also have a pretty good idea what the text might be about, in order to decypher it.

Identifying the letters is not so much a problem, just take a close look. Like you pointed out: in "Meester" the e,r,t really look awfully alike - but only alike, there are clear differences (how long, how pointed, where it is broken, where not,...). You are better off if you know the language - haven't you also received letters with a horrible chicken scratch, but still it was no problem, because you knew what the text was about? When you know the language you know which letters can be put together and which not; in past times there usually wasn't any spaces between words at all. For the abbreviations, well that's the same. lol, rofl, ymmv, :-) you know that today, so did the people back then (and sometimes still today).

 

There is a book by Adriano Cappelli that's more or less the 'industry standard' on medieval Latin abbreviations, which I *think* would still be relevant to the "late medieval" (i.e. Bosch's) period.

Indeed the Cappelli is a great tool, I have mine now for some decades. But for late medieval, renaissance texts it's usually always the same few abbreviations. Especially in those "showpieces" like Bosch's paintings. It gets more fun in specialized texts like law proceedings,... Even Cappelli doesn't cover that anymore :-)

[LeonW]

Thanks for deciphering Michael.

[bluesocks]

Indeed the Cappelli is a great tool, I have mine now for some decades. But for late medieval, renaissance texts it's usually always the same few abbreviations. Especially in those "showpieces" like Bosch's paintings. It gets more fun in specialized texts like law proceedings,... Even Cappelli doesn't cover that anymore :-)

 

'Scuse the digression! but are you a medievalist, @mirosc? I was one for a short while (late English medieval), then went on to do modern-day law before I could ever get to the medieval law proceedings...

[inkstainedruth]

Thanks for posting the link to the Capelli book, bluesocks. Very cool stuff (I've saved that as a .pdf file on my laptop).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[mirosc]

 

'Scuse the digression! but are you a medievalist, @mirosc? I was one for a short while (late English medieval), then went on to do modern-day law before I could ever get to the medieval law proceedings...

Guilty as charged :-)

I wrote my doctoral thesis on medieval law proceedings - with quite a lot of deciphering to do. Our institute did quite a lot on renaissance/humanistic paleography, too.

[bluesocks]

Guilty as charged :-)

I wrote my doctoral thesis on medieval law proceedings - with quite a lot of deciphering to do. Our institute did quite a lot on renaissance/humanistic paleography, too.

 

Hardcore! And I was told in grad school that parish scrolls were tough, lol

 

I love paleography and codicology and would have done that if I had gone to do a PhD. This thread has made me feel real nostalgic

[Vlad Soare]

Michael, I'm impressed. Thank you for your explanations.

I take it you're Dutch? The spelling in the first picture is different from that of today, for instance "myne name" would be spelled "mijn naam" today if I'm not mistaken. But you can still read it, which makes me suspect you're a native.

[mirosc]

 

I love paleography and codicology and would have done that if I had gone to do a PhD. This thread has made me feel real nostalgic

Sorry to hear that we are missing a great scholar!

 

 

Michael, I'm impressed. Thank you for your explanations.

I take it you're Dutch? The spelling in the first picture is different from that of today, for instance "myne name" would be spelled "mijn naam" today if I'm not mistaken. But you can still read it, which makes me suspect you're a native.

You're welcome.

Actually I'm German. Dutch is still a bit different, but close enough to our northern dialects (Friesisch, Platt). Still most of the reading is done by looking closely at the letters, unterstanding/guessing the meaning is only assisting in this case. It's easier / the other way round with Latin though

[Vlad Soare]

I speak German, and I've always been fascinated by the way Dutch resembles both German and English, while at the same time being so different from both of them. I don't understand Dutch when I hear it, but I can understand short texts in a given context (e.g. advertisements, announcements in trains or stations, etc.). My first impulse is to think "oh, I don't understand anything". Then, on a second look, I begin recognizing the words one by one, until I can finally infer the whole message.

And I find it interesting how this resemblance can also work on a phonetical level, meaning there are words which are spelled totally differently but still pronounced the same (e.g. "vrouw" vs. "Frau").

 

Having learned German as a foreign language, my knowledge is limited to Hochdeutsch. I do not understand any other dialect. Whenever I think of German I actually think of Hochdeutsch. When I had my first contact with the Dutch speaking world, I noticed at first the resemblance to German. However, I soon started to have some doubts. It seemed to me that, while close to German, it wasn't quite as close I expected. I had a vague feeling that I was missing something, that there was a missing link.

One year later I was in Hamburg for business and, while searching for something on the internet I ran across a seemingly German Wikipedia page. I started reading, only to realize that I didn't understand anything. I stopped, took a closer look, and thought "oh, this is Dutch". But then, at an even closer look I realized it wasn't Dutch. It looked like German, but wasn't. It looked like Dutch, but wasn't. So I asked a German colleague what that language was. He said "oh, that's a northern low-German dialect. I cannot read that" (he was from the south, from Mannheim).

That was a sudden eye-opener. I instantly realized my mistake. I was comparing Dutch to Hochdeutsch, while I should have compared it to Niederdeutsch. So I was right. There was indeed a link between Dutch and what I thought of as German. That link was the Niederdeutsch.

 

This also solved another mystery of mine. At first I didn't understand why the G is pronounced in Dutch as an H ("gast" pronounced "hast", etc.). It seemed so strange. Could it be a Spanish influence? Possibly, but not very likely. Although the Low Countries used to be under Spanish rule for a while, that wouldn't explain such a strong influence in the language.

The revelation of the Niederdeutsch thing made me think a bit, and so I started to analyze German pronounciation from East to North-West. In Austria, a G is always pronounced as a G (either sonorant or not), for instance "König", "zwanzig" are pronounced "Könik", "zwanzik", etc. Go a bit to the West, to southern Germany, and the final G starts to show some exceptions. "Tag" is still pronounced "Tak", but "zwanzig" becomes "zwanzich", "König" becomes "Könich", etc. Go further up to the North, and the exception starts taking over. The final G starts becoming an H all the time. In Hamburg people pronounce "Montag" as "Montach", "Hamburg" is pronounced "Hamburch", etc.

So, as you approach the Netherlands the G starts being pronounced more and more like a CH. Bingo! That explains the Dutch pronounciation. Another mystery solved.

 

Sorry for the digression, but I find these things extremely fascinating. I've always been fascinated by foreign languages and their relations to one another, how they evolved and why, etc.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Vlad Soare

[Vlad Soare]

What kind of pen would one use today to write blackletter? A wide italic nib? Or a combination between italic and flex?

Or maybe something extreme, like a Pilot Parallel, under various angles?

Are there any books or web sites with instructions on how to execute it?