Real Silver Sonnet ?

[Chu0009]

Got this sitting in the cupboard for 20 yrs.

Recently, took it out to use.

Apparently another one of mine may be a fake !!! be still my beating heart. I present the following pics if this one is also a fake ??

Both are presents from my father. He is a big parker fan, but not an expert.

[FedericoMedina]

The cap engravings don't look correct, but it could be a older model I have never seen before.

 

also my solid silver sonnet has a hallmark on top of the cap band. Silver plated sonnet does not have this.

Edited October 13, 2014 by FedericoMedina

[Tritonus]

Apparently there is a quick test to determine if the nib is gold or not and that is to use a magnet. If it sticks it is a fake because the fake will not use real 18K gold and probably use a metal containing iron. However I did read that there are some metals that are not attracted to magnets so I am not sure if this is 100% accurate. If you enjoyed the pen, then best to ignore it and continue using it. After all, it is the sentimental value that matters most. I still have my very first fountain pen which is a Hero pen that my Mum bought for me when I first started learning to write. It is a knock off of a Parker 51 but the sentimental value is irreplaceable.

http://www.penhero.com/PenGallery/Parker/ParkerSonnetClones.htm

Edited October 13, 2014 by Tritonus

[Eccles]

My silver Sonnet with narrow cap band has the silver hallmark on the cap band to the left of the "Parker" inscription, situated between the Parker diamond lozenge and the date code.

The cap band inscription seems very similar, although the black of the lettering on yours seems very dense in places, especially in 'France'. The M & D in the 'MD 925' inscription are so close together that they almost seem to share a vertical stroke, much like yours seems to do, although the view in the photo is not the best.

The diamond lozenge on the nib does not look right, though... apart from the seemingly absent internal detail, it's height is smaller than the font of the 750, whereas on my pen's nib it is close to the same height. But I'm no expert on nibs that may have been fitted or replaced over the years, so I'm unsure how helpful that observation might be.

My model with a broad cap band, has the French silver hallmark on the silver of the actual cap, above the cap band.

Stainless steel nibs are not attracted by a magnet, so a plated one can be misleading.

Regards,

Glenn.

[richardandtracy]

I'd be a bit cautious because of the nib. The pattern is not one I recognise.

 

It has been a while since I last removed my Sonnet nib, but IIRC the feed had spigots that came through the nib material in the holes in the side of the nib and came close to being flush with the top of the nib. That feed doesn't seem to do so.

 

On the other hand...

My stainless nib, and those stainless nibs being sold by the reputable dealer 'PilotfishPens' on e-bay have square holes http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Parker-Sonnet-Medium-Stainles-Steel-Nib-/331041963645?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PensPencils_WritingEquipment_SM&hash=item4d13a37e7d , while the gold nibs seem to have round holes http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Parker-Sonnet-Medium-18K-Gold-Nib-/331289100633?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PensPencils_WritingEquipment_SM&hash=item4d225e8159, suggesting that it may be right. None the less, these feeds all seem to have flush portions to the spigots.

 

I have my doubts about this spare nib being of Parker origin (round holes, stainless nib, no spigots on the feed): http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Parker-Compatible-Medium-Nib-Fits-Sonnet-Insignia-New-UK-Seller-/121451660662?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PensPencils_WritingEquipment_SM&var=&hash=item1c47154576 and the feed seems to look similar to the one in the photos. Also, the seller is careful to say 'Parker Compatible' rather than 'Parker'

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[Gerd W]

All the parts you are showing do look exactly equivalent to those on my Sonnet.

My stationer dit order this pen in 1993 directly from Parker Pen, Germany.

[pajaro]

If you look at your nib, the diamond hallmark looks possibly genuine. If you magnify it enough, you should see within the diamond an arrow with a P above and below the arrow. Compare yours with the pics in the link to Penhero provided by Tritonus above. Fakes apparently could not make the P above and below the arrow, so they made a + or cross in the diamond. Fakers might since have mastered this fakery of the hallmark, but yours is much older, and they weren't getting the hallmark right when your pen was bought.

[Joe in Seattle]

It looks right to me. I owned one of that vintage and recently sold it.

[Chu0009]

Hi all,

Thanks for all the very detailed and knowledgeable advice.

I had a closer look at the diamond lozenge and it has a P above W below the arrow.

sigh of relief !!

[richardandtracy]

That is good news. Also one more style to remember as being correct.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[Mookli]

Hi,

I have a Sonnet, it’s not fake, just looks that way?

 

In my case I concluded it was real, well by that I mean, the body tests good for silver, the nib for gold.

The fact that it is so hard to tell is in part due to the way Parker made this pen.

They decided to fill in the cicele groves with a black filler. (They stopped doing on later Sonnets).

They also filled in the hallmarks around the cap band, with exception of the two French hallmarks.

The pen is also plated with something, probably rhodium, to prevent tarnishing.

The end effect is it makes the pen feel cheap. It has the chrome color of the rhodium plating, and the feel of the filled in groves, To the touch, it feels like it is plastic coated.

In some regards it makes it look and feel fake!

There are also some small detail problems like the nib is slit centered on the tipping material but doesn’t intersect the breather hole exactly, probably just QC issues.

 

I used the pen for a few months and found it to be very comfortable after getting use to the feel I found I liked this pen despite everything. It writes like a Parker, reliable without any problems. The weight and distribution is nice. (I don’t post)

 

My personal opinion is that the finishing decisions on this model were not flattering, and indeed contributed in hiding some nice attributes this pen has. I have decided to keep it as is, but I would love to see it in natural silver color and the open cicele pattern.

 

Here are the specs on my pen:

 

Parker Sonnet, MK1 1997 Cicele (body made in France)

Narrow cap band, gold plated, clip with 7 feather lines

Hallmarks on cap band:

(Parker “arrow through oval” Hallmark) PARKER SONNET FRANCE MD 925 (two French Menerva hallmarks) (Parker /Waterman Hallmark) (date code IIP)

Nib:

PARKER 18K (Parker / Waterman Hallmark) (750)

Pictures @ http://www.maryhatay...44834715_xWbPs4

 

 

Mark

[pajaro]

Your Sonnet is not a fake. I see some hallmarks as p over W, some as p over p. They are genuine.

[Matlock]

Hi,

I have a Sonnet, it’s not fake, just looks that way?

 

In my case I concluded it was real, well by that I mean, the body tests good for silver, the nib for gold.

The fact that it is so hard to tell is in part due to the way Parker made this pen.

They decided to fill in the cicele groves with a black filler. (They stopped doing on later Sonnets).

They also filled in the hallmarks around the cap band, with exception of the two French hallmarks.

The pen is also plated with something, probably rhodium, to prevent tarnishing.

The end effect is it makes the pen feel cheap. It has the chrome color of the rhodium plating, and the feel of the filled in groves, To the touch, it feels like it is plastic coated.

In some regards it makes it look and feel fake!

There are also some small detail problems like the nib is slit centered on the tipping material but doesn’t intersect the breather hole exactly, probably just QC issues.

 

I used the pen for a few months and found it to be very comfortable after getting use to the feel I found I liked this pen despite everything. It writes like a Parker, reliable without any problems. The weight and distribution is nice. (I don’t post)

 

My personal opinion is that the finishing decisions on this model were not flattering, and indeed contributed in hiding some nice attributes this pen has. I have decided to keep it as is, but I would love to see it in natural silver color and the open cicele pattern.

 

Here are the specs on my pen:

 

Parker Sonnet, MK1 1997 Cicele (body made in France)

Narrow cap band, gold plated, clip with 7 feather lines

Hallmarks on cap band:

(Parker “arrow through oval” Hallmark) PARKER SONNET FRANCE MD 925 (two French Menerva hallmarks) (Parker /Waterman Hallmark) (date code IIP)

Nib:

PARKER 18K (Parker / Waterman Hallmark) (750)

Pictures @ http://www.maryhatay...44834715_xWbPs4

 

 

Mark

 

I think we have to differentuate between hallmarks (in France this will be the crab and .925) and sponsor marks (Parker arrow and P over W, P over P in the triangle on the nib etc.). The French practice is to stamp only one set of hallmarks, usualy on the cap, In England these would be stamped on all Sterling Silver parts of the pen. In the USA it is practice to just stamp Sterling Silver as hallmarks are not a legal requirement.

[Mookli]

 

I think we have to differentuate between hallmarks (in France this will be the crab and .925) and sponsor marks (Parker arrow and P over W, P over P in the triangle on the nib etc.). The French practice is to stamp only one set of hallmarks, usualy on the cap, In England these would be stamped on all Sterling Silver parts of the pen. In the USA it is practice to just stamp Sterling Silver as hallmarks are not a legal requirement.

Yes you are right, I used the term incorrectly for all markings on the pen. Sorry

Do you know what the MD before the 925 stands for?

M

[Chu0009]

sine we are discussing about the cap ring. the various marks on the ring band is not stamped as clearly as yours. I kinda put it down to QC? the silver hallmark by the french is however quite clearly seen.

[pajaro]

Differentiate.

[Matlock]

Differentiate.

I stand corrected.

[Mookli]

sine we are discussing about the cap ring. the various marks on the ring band is not stamped as clearly as yours. I kinda put it down to QC? the silver hallmark by the french is however quite clearly seen.

I think the hallmarks are struck in a separate process, after the black epoxy was applied to the fill in the grooves.

Also the placements varies a little from pen to pen.

 

 

I have examined he grooves of my Parker 75 under the microscope and found machine marks, indicating they were cut or milled, rather than stamped.

The text around the band is very clean, clear and crisp.

 

On the Sonnet, I cannot see into the grooves to compare manufacturing methods due to the fill material.

 

Stamping draws in material from around the site, and due to displacement mounds it around the edges. To get a clean impression, post machining is needed to remove high spots. If this is done correctly, it looks perfect. If not you get the stamped look, less crisp.

To me it looks like the text on the sonnet is stamped and the muddy impression is due to not having that top crisp edge to delineate the font properly.

 

M

[Mookli]

And......

What is up with the finish on the early Sonnets.

On the pictures that Chu0009 posted ( nice job! ) you can see the peeling on each square.

When I got mine it additionally had dark spots all over, the silver oxidizing under the plating.

A light rib with a sun-cloth removed the dark spots and use took care of a the rest. But it still is a poor finish.

 

I am still interested in what was going on.

 

The Sterling Cisele was a very successful design, and I could see that the only thing wrong with it, would be a tendency to tarnish.

So was Parker attempting to address this with the new design of the Sonnet?

Was Parker experimenting with methods of tarnish control?

Maybe using a different plating material, method of applying?

Did they look OK when they were made and just don’t age well?

 

M