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Does White Dot Mean "lifetime"?


parban

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In one of my old Sheaffer's snorkel model having 14k round (triumph?) nib, there is a white dot on the top end of the goldfilled cap, but the word LIFETIME is not engraved on the nib. There is a serial number, quite long, engraved on the nib.My question to the respected visitors is :Does the white dot itself imply that its a lifetime model, or its not a lifetime model at all?My thanks and regards to all.

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As far as I know the white dot gave a lifetime warranty to the owner of a sheaffer pen. A white dot model is not necessarily a lifetime model as far as I am mistaken because there were models who had the feather touch nibs and the silver palladium nibs which also had the white dot.

Pens are like watches , once you start a collection, you can hardly go back. And pens like all fine luxury items do improve with time

 

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The only pen I'm aware of that is clearly marked LIFETIME came out during the 50th Anniversary of Sheaffer (1963). They were not really prepared for the milestone. They just stamped the clips of some their current (then) Imperial lines. They were called Lifetime pens to co-inside with the event. However, as a consolation to buyers they gave the buyers following warranty:

 

The trademark LIFETIME imprinted on the 14K gold point and on the clip to identify the new LIFETIME fountain pen guarantees its proper performance under normal conditions below for the life of the person in whose name a certificate finished for each pen is required. If during your life as the registered owner, this LIFETIME fountain pen should fail to function properly for any cause other than wilful or accidental damage send the pen to our factory postage prepaid and we will repair or replace it for you completely free of charge.

fpn_1434850097__cocursive.jpg

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In one of my old Sheaffer's snorkel model having 14k round (triumph?) nib, there is a white dot on the top end of the goldfilled cap, but the word LIFETIME is not engraved on the nib. There is a serial number, quite long, engraved on the nib.My question to the respected visitors is :Does the white dot itself imply that its a lifetime model, or its not a lifetime model at all?My thanks and regards to all.

At first, the white dot indicated a Lifetime

pen. Starting in the mid-1940s, the dot no longer indicated a Lifetime pen; it was used on Sheaffer's better models. Eventually, the dot became the logo of the company as a whole.

 

--Daniel

"The greatest mental derangement is to believe things because we want them to be true, not because we observe that they are in effect." --Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

Daniel Kirchheimer
Specialty Pen Restoration
Authorized Sheaffer/Parker/Waterman Vintage Repair Center
Purveyor of the iCroScope digital loupe

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The only pen I'm aware of that is clearly marked LIFETIME came out during the 50th Anniversary of Sheaffer (1963).

Scores of Sheaffer models were marked Lifetime, starting in the 1920s.

 

--Daniel

"The greatest mental derangement is to believe things because we want them to be true, not because we observe that they are in effect." --Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

Daniel Kirchheimer
Specialty Pen Restoration
Authorized Sheaffer/Parker/Waterman Vintage Repair Center
Purveyor of the iCroScope digital loupe

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The only pen I'm aware of that is clearly marked LIFETIME came out during the 50th Anniversary of Sheaffer (1963). They were not really prepared for the milestone. They just stamped the clips of some their current (then) Imperial lines. They were called Lifetime pens to co-inside with the event. However, as a consolation to buyers they gave the buyers following warranty:

 

 

 

The trademark LIFETIME imprinted on the 14K gold point and on the clip to identify the new LIFETIME fountain pen guarantees its proper performance under normal conditions below for the life of the person in whose name a certificate finished for each pen is required. If during your life as the registered owner, this LIFETIME fountain pen should fail to function properly for any cause other than wilful or accidental damage send the pen to our factory postage prepaid and we will repair or replace it for you completely free of charge.

I'd be interested in the source of your information that Sheaffer was not really prepared for their 50th anniversary, and that the Lifetime guarantee they attached to that model was added as a consolation to purchasers.

 

Note the correct wording of the guarantee is "...in whose name a certificate, furnished with each pen, is registered."

 

--Daniel

Edited by kirchh

"The greatest mental derangement is to believe things because we want them to be true, not because we observe that they are in effect." --Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

Daniel Kirchheimer
Specialty Pen Restoration
Authorized Sheaffer/Parker/Waterman Vintage Repair Center
Purveyor of the iCroScope digital loupe

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Yes. Daniel Kirchheimer is one of the more precise members of our community. I value his postings for that reason. I was especially encouraged that he did not repeat the rather inexact story, found in many places on the Web, that in the latter 1940s the United States government outlawed lifetime guarantees. It didn't. Cross offered a lifetime guarantee then and still does today. And it's not the only company that has had a lifetime guarantee since 1947. Sheaffer itself began to offer them again many years after it had stopped, though not on all pens and, where offered, with qualifications.

 

What did happen in the latter 1940s was that several companies that had offered a lifetime guarantee in their print advertising began to charge repair fees, having found that honoring the lifetime guarantee without charge was costing them a lot of money. Customers complained to the government. The legal judgment that resulted, and I have read its text, was that if a fee was to be charged for warranty repairs that fact had to be indicated in the advertisement in type of the same size and style as the words "lifetime guarantee."

 

That did not serve the purposes of print advertising, and manufacturers already reluctant to throw away money on warranty service were, I think, grateful for a neat way out. It isn't true that lifetime guarantees were banned. The government just wanted it made typographically clear whether or not repair fees were to be charged if the guarantee was advertised.

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I'd be interested in the source of your information that Sheaffer was not really prepared for their 50th anniversary, and that the Lifetime guarantee they attached to that model was added as a consolation to purchasers.

 

Note the correct wording of the guarantee is "...in whose name a certificate, furnished with each pen, is registered."

 

--Daniel

I only said that in jest, because Sheaffer really did not come up with a new pen to commemorate the 50th Anniversary. What they offered were just some of their then current Imperial lines with LIFETIME stamped on the clips, otherwise just the same pens with different name.

 

Scores of Sheaffer models were marked Lifetime, starting in the 1920s.

 

--Daniel

 

I know that Sheaffer started offering some of their premium-price "Lifetime" pen in the 1920s (many models). As far as I know, the nibs were marked as such. The 1963 pens were marked LIFETIME on the clips and nibs, they are called LIFETIME cartridge pens.

fpn_1434850097__cocursive.jpg

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Yes. Daniel Kirchheimer is one of the more precise members of our community. I value his postings for that reason. I was especially encouraged that he did not repeat the rather inexact story, found in many places on the Web, that in the latter 1940s the United States government outlawed lifetime guarantees. It didn't. Cross offered a lifetime guarantee then and still does today. And it's not the only company that has had a lifetime guarantee since 1947. Sheaffer itself began to offer them again many years after it had stopped, though not on all pens and, where offered, with qualifications.

 

What did happen in the latter 1940s was that several companies that had offered a lifetime guarantee in their print advertising began to charge repair fees, having found that honoring the lifetime guarantee without charge was costing them a lot of money. Customers complained to the government. The legal judgment that resulted, and I have read its text, was that if a fee was to be charged for warranty repairs that fact had to be indicated in the advertisement in type of the same size and style as the words "lifetime guarantee."

 

That did not serve the purposes of print advertising, and manufacturers already reluctant to throw away money on warranty service were, I think, grateful for a neat way out. It isn't true that lifetime guarantees were banned. The government just wanted it made typographically clear whether or not repair fees were to be charged if the guarantee was advertised.

 

Thanks, Jerome. I will offer some clarification of some of the points you make.

 

Sheaffer did not stop offering Lifetime guarantees in the late '40s. They unbound the White Dot and the Lifetime guarantee, but certain pens with solid-gold components had the Lifetime guarantee (and bore nibs so marked) through the 1950s.

 

The repair fees were not introduced in the 1940s; they had been part of the guarantees since the early 1930s, and though not an unreasonable explanation, it is speculation that they were added because the repairs were costing them a lot of money (unless you have some specific evidence that supports that contention).

 

I have never seen any specific evidence that customers complained to the government; if you do have some, I'd love to see it. It is certainly possible, of course; but it is also possible that smaller competitors of the Big Four (all of whom were served with similar FTC orders) initiated the government's action on this front.

 

The FTC's original ruling does not say that the language explaining the service charge had to be in comparable type to the guarantee claim, but rather that there could not be any such charge. The FTC also stated that due to the volume of pens that did not, in fact, last a lifetime, the penmakers could only say that they would guarantee service on the pens, not the pens themselves. Sheaffer, in fact, subtly altered their advertising for a time to comply with that admonition.

 

Parker fought the ruling and the courts issued a substantial, though not complete, reversal of the FTC's orders, saying that the manufacturers could in fact offer long-term guarantees, as long as they did not say they were "unconditional" if they had the condition that a service charge applied. Also, as you state, any such charge had to be more prominently displayed in advertising.

 

I agree that by that time, costs were mounting; Sheaffer was losing money on each repair they performed under the Lifetime policy, and, perhaps of more concern, that per-repair loss was increasing every year. The days of the broadly-available Lifetime guarantee (like the nibs) were numbered.

 

--Daniel

"The greatest mental derangement is to believe things because we want them to be true, not because we observe that they are in effect." --Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

Daniel Kirchheimer
Specialty Pen Restoration
Authorized Sheaffer/Parker/Waterman Vintage Repair Center
Purveyor of the iCroScope digital loupe

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The 1963 pens were marked LIFETIME on the clips and nibs, they are called LIFETIME cartridge pens.

 

Note that Lifetimes of Imperial form do turn up with Touchdown fillers as well as in cartridge/convertor configurations.

 

--Daniel

"The greatest mental derangement is to believe things because we want them to be true, not because we observe that they are in effect." --Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

Daniel Kirchheimer
Specialty Pen Restoration
Authorized Sheaffer/Parker/Waterman Vintage Repair Center
Purveyor of the iCroScope digital loupe

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Note that Lifetimes of Imperial form do turn up with Touchdown fillers ...

 

--Daniel

 

Were they catalogued or just anomalies?

fpn_1434850097__cocursive.jpg

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Sheaffer did not stop offering Lifetime guarantees in the late '40s.

 

--Daniel

 

Only one clarification.

The truth and reality is that the Sheaffer´S Lifetime guarantee was not "the same" from 1947, it to say, from the late ´40. So,

Initially only 35 cents is charged for Lifetime Service and these cost could well be justified by return shipping.

From March 1, 1945 the cost for this Service rise clearly to 85 cents.

From September 1, 1947 this service rises to $1.50 and no longer covers the caps (clip torn from the cap or a cracked cap, usually) that should be paid by the owner (Sovereign cap from $2.75, to $7.00 and $9.00 for Sentinel and Crest caps, up $13.00 for Autograph´s cap, f.e.).

The $1.50 may well be the cost of insurance, especially without contemplating the cap, so we should not confuse, because it is not the same, SheafferS Lifetime Guarantee pre or post late ´40 where the owner bears the cost.

 

I would say that was born as a Lifetime Guarantee and ended up being, in the tale ´40, a Lifetime Service.

 

PS.

 

More info about FTC and judicial decisions here:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/251972-blue-diamonds-autopsy/

 

It is true that in 1948 and 1949 SheafferS valued the annual cost of their Lifetime service at $150,000 (0,6% of 1948 net sales), but this amount includes too the annual cost of repair items covered by pre-1947 service. On another hand we do not know what they collected by the different charges of $1.50.

Edited by Lazard 20
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Sheaffer did not stop offering Lifetime guarantees in the late '40s.

 

--Daniel

 

Only one clarification.

The truth and reality is that the Sheaffer´S Lifetime guarantee was not "the same" from 1947, it to say, from the late ´40. So,

 

Initially only 35 cents is charged for Lifetime Service and these cost could well be justified by return shipping.

 

From March 1, 1945 the cost for this Service rise clearly to 85 cents.

 

From September 1, 1947 this service rises to $1.50 and no longer covers the caps (clip torn from the cap or a cracked cap, usually) that should be paid by the owner (Sovereign cap from $2.75, to $7.00 and $9.00 for Sentinel and Crest caps, up $13.00 for Autograph´s cap, f.e.).

 

The $1.50 may well be the cost of insurance, especially without contemplating the cap, so we should not confuse, because it is not the same, SheafferS Lifetime Guarantee pre or post late ´40 where the owner bears the cost.

 

I would say that was born as a Lifetime Guarantee and ended up being, in the tale ´40, a Lifetime Service.

 

PS.

 

More info about FTC and judicial decisions here:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/251972-blue-diamonds-autopsy/

 

It is true that in 1948 and 1949 SheafferS valued the annual cost of their Lifetime service at $150,000 (0,6% of 1948 net sales), but this amount includes too the annual cost of repair items covered by pre-1947 service. On another hand we do not know what they collected by the different charges of $1.50.

 

 

Some corrections:

 

Sheaffer's repair charge of $0.35 was not, and was never claimed by Sheaffer to be, justified by return shipping.

 

Sheaffer's charge to put Lifetime pens made prior to the change in guarantee terms on 3/1/1945 in good writing condition remained at $0.35 for pens purchased on those terms. Sheaffer would also offer a higher level of overhaul that included the replacement (rather than repair) of parts for the higher fee of $0.85, but that was at the customer's option.

 

Starting with pens made on 3/1/45, the Lifetime guarantee changed to cover only the nib, and the associated charge was dropped, in compliance with the FTC's initial Order. Note that this change, of course, had no effect on pens that had been made and purchased under the earlier terms. Sheaffer honored the new terms as stated; they would perform repair/replacement of the Lifetime point without a service charge, billing only for actual postage/insurance. (Sheaffer also established a generous repair price schedule for the non-guaranteed parts of the pen, establishing a flat-rate of $0.85 for repairs as long as no parts were missing).

 

Non-Lifetime pens were serviced for a flat charge of $1.50 if all parts were present, with the exception of a damaged cap; if a cap replacement were required, the new cap would be supplied at a cost listed on a table, but in that situation, the $1.50 service fee would be waived.

 

--Daniel

"The greatest mental derangement is to believe things because we want them to be true, not because we observe that they are in effect." --Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

Daniel Kirchheimer
Specialty Pen Restoration
Authorized Sheaffer/Parker/Waterman Vintage Repair Center
Purveyor of the iCroScope digital loupe

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Were they catalogued or just anomalies?

 

I haven't seen them cataloged, but that does not therefore mean that they are anomalies per se.

 

--Daniel

"The greatest mental derangement is to believe things because we want them to be true, not because we observe that they are in effect." --Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

Daniel Kirchheimer
Specialty Pen Restoration
Authorized Sheaffer/Parker/Waterman Vintage Repair Center
Purveyor of the iCroScope digital loupe

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"Starting with pens made on 3/1/45, the Lifetime guarantee changed to cover only the nib. Daniel."

 

 

This Daniel´s statement is not true because from 1945 to 1947 Service include all unusable parts including the nib. So, the nib... and unusable parts (To see Paragraph B in section II). All the pen afther 1947 and $1.50 charge too include nib and unusable parts except caps (To see Paragraph B in section III).

 

So, Sheaffer'S separated three big groups by manufacture date:

I) Prior to March 1, 1945 ....................................................... 35 cents / (85 cents if we replacing unusable parts)
II) From March 1, 1945 to September 1, 1947 ....................... 85 cents.
III) ALL others Sheafer'S pens ................................................. $ 1.50 (cap risks uncovered even high-end as Crest or Autograph)

But let us to Sheaffer´s clarify better than others.

http://s29.postimg.org/k8q5hv5dz/Sheaffer_S_Lifetime.jpg

Edited by Lazard 20
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Sheaffer'S separated three big groups by manufacture date:

 

1) Prior to March 1, 1945 ....................................................... 35 cents / (85 cents under certain conditions)

2) From March 1, 1945 to September 1, 1947 ....................... 85 cents.

3) ALL others Sheafer'S pens ................................................. $ 1.50 (cap risks uncovered even high-end as Crest or Autograph)

 

Note that the Lifetime guarantee covered only the nib, not the whole pen, on Lifetime pens of the '40s after 3/1/45, and there was no service charge for repairs to the nib on those pens, as I explained.

 

--Daniel

"The greatest mental derangement is to believe things because we want them to be true, not because we observe that they are in effect." --Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

Daniel Kirchheimer
Specialty Pen Restoration
Authorized Sheaffer/Parker/Waterman Vintage Repair Center
Purveyor of the iCroScope digital loupe

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Note that the Lifetime guarantee covered only the nib as I explained.

 

--Daniel

 

This statement is not true because from 1945 to 1947 Service include all unusable parts including the nib. So, the nib... and unusable parts (To see Paragraph B in section II). All the pen afther 1947 and $1.50 charge too include nib and unusable parts except caps (To see Paragraph B in section III).

 

So Sheaffer´s Lifetime service afther 1945 covered only the nib is another "majority opinion" ... fataly wrong. Sorry.

Edited by Lazard 20
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