Pilot-Namiki Blue Ink Vs. Blue-Black - Odor?

[Drone]

My question to anyone who has tried both the Blue and Blue-Black Pilot-Namiki inks is this:

 

Does Pilot-Namiki Blue-black ink smell anything like Pilot-Namiki Blue?

Pilot-Namiki Blue has a fairly strong paraffin-like smell right from the bottle. Actually I find the "Inky" smell delightful.

 

Here's why I ask:

My work-horse fountain pen ink is Pilot-Namiki Blue. I'm thinking about importing a 350ml bottle or two of Pilot Blue-Black ink (not blue) from Japan.

Why blue-black you ask? Unfortunately, I can not find Pilot Blue in the 350ml bottles; only Black, Blue-Black, and Red is available in the large bottles.

I can buy the 350ml bottle of Blue-Black for less than $14 USD plus $12 USD tracked EMS express shipping per bottle from Japan. That comes to a little less than 4-cents per ml plus shipping. Probably the best per ml ink value world-wide given the quality of Pilot-Namiki inks. By comparison your average bottle of fountain pen ink costs around four or five-times more.

I think only some Indian or Pakistani fountain pen inks in large volume may be cheaper. And then you're taking a risk with the quality.

 

Actually, even if the Pilot Blue-Black doesn't smell like the Blue ink. I'll probably go ahead and import a big bottle anyway. I'm just curious.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Drone

[MusterMark]

I've been using the blue/black cartridges in my Vanishing Point, and I like them a lot. It's a great color, but I have to say that I don't notice any significant odor. Of course, the bottle experience may be different.

[Koyote]

I use a lot of the Pilot B-B in cartridges (Vanishing Point) and haven't noticed any smell. Now, if you buy a bottle and take a big whiff, perhaps there is a smell...But that's not going to be a problem when writing, is it?

[NedC]

Yes, they have the same rather strong sharp phenol smell, so does the Pilot black, though just a little weaker than either of the blue shades.

[arcadeflow]

My Pilot Blue smell is stronger than Black's, I can smell it while writing with a medium 78G. I don't particularly enjoy the smell (although it is a bit interesting), but I like the properties of these inks. They never dry in the nib, they lubricate well Pilot nibs, and Blue not only survives water, but it writes well in bad paper, most of the times with undetectable feathering or bleeding. Black, even with a fine nib, in some papers feather noticeably, but it is a quite dark black, blacker than most brands, and is dark even in fine nibs.

[reprieve]

Blue-black has the same sharp odor as Blue.

 

They are magical inks. They clean up quickly and have great water resistance and produce some lovely shading and a bit of sheen on certain papers and rarely feather even on cheap paper and they have that wonderful distinctive ink smell. Magical inky goodness.

[Koyote]

Just to add: the Pilot B-B is terrific stuff. Flows well, has not clogged any of my pens, great color -- in a wet writer it is quite dark, in a pen with more moderate flow it is a great dark gray with nice shading.

 

I have thought about buying a bottle myself, but the Pilot carts are just so convenient, especially when popping them into a VP.

[arcadeflow]

Just to add: the Pilot B-B is terrific stuff. Flows well, has not clogged any of my pens, great color -- in a wet writer it is quite dark, in a pen with more moderate flow it is a great dark gray with nice shading.

 

I have thought about buying a bottle myself, but the Pilot carts are just so convenient, especially when popping them into a VP.

 

I have ordered a bottle, having previously only tried the blue black cartridge of a Pilot Petit 1. I am not sure if it is the same color, but it was pretty dark, and the Petit 1 has a fine nib (more of a Japanese FM). Reading your comment I am wondering again if it is the same ink, it shouldn't be this dark. But it was a very good ink indeed, it never dried, it spent almost a year inside the pen and made it feel smooth when writing. The same pen with other inks was not the same. And now I won't ever use non-Pilot inks in those Petit 1's.

[Drone]

Thanks to everyone for the replies...

 

I have ordered a 350ml bottle of Pilot Blue-Black. I would have ordered more than one, but it is a pain to get the order, payment, and shipping sorted out with Japan. So I'll start with one bottle - just in case.

 

@NedC, You hit the nail on the head describing the smell as being like "Phenol". I am in S.E. Asia and by my "Paraffin-Like" description I was referring to what might be commonly called "Kerosene-Like" in the West; not Paraffin as in "Wax". To me, phenol is more like the smell of Pilot Blue - actually Pilot Blue reminds me a bit of "Phenolic" circuit boards, but a bit more sweet, and less musty.

 

It is interesting to think that Phenol might be a precursor to what ever it is that actually makes the Pilot bottled ink smell as it does. Phenol alone (a.k.a. Carbolic Acid) is a mild acid. However, I cite something I read on a reputable Distributor's page where Namiki Blue was sold:

 

www.nibs.com/fountain-pen-ink-bottles.htm

 

"...Pilot-Namiki has stated that the tested ph (sic) levels of all their inks are above 7.0, making them acid-free and archival safe."

 

But don't hold me to any of this complex chemistry stuff (especially organic chemistry) - I'm a lowly EE.

 

When I get my big bottle of Pilot Blue-Black (fingers-crossed), I'll put together a little ink review. I'll try to keep track of this thread and post a notice here when and if that happens.

 

Have Fun Everyone, David

Edited October 1, 2014 by Drone

[Drone]

BTW, Here's a picture and link scraped from the Pilot Web site showing these big 350ml ink bottles. Makes me want to uncap one and take a swig:

 

http://www.pilot.co.jp/products/pen/fountain/ink-350/index.html

 

Edited October 1, 2014 by Drone

[Drone]

I use a lot of the Pilot B-B in cartridges (Vanishing Point) and haven't noticed any smell. Now, if you buy a bottle and take a big whiff, perhaps there is a smell...But that's not going to be a problem when writing, is it?

 

I have some Pilot carts, but I never use them except to syringe refill them once in a while with a Pilot pen like the 78G. So I can't speak off-the-cuff about how they smell compared to the Pilot bottled ink.

 

The Pilot-Namiki Blue bottled ink on the other hand, right out of the bottle has a very noticeable "inky" odor. Also, when you write with the Pilot blue, you can smell the odor, but it does dissipate rather quickly and is not really detectable to my nose once the ink has dried.

 

If you find the smell of Pilot Blue offensive, then yes, even writing with the ink may pose a problem. However, the smell isn't over-powering in any way or noticeable over any meaningful distance in a still room. And as I said in my OP, I actually like the the smell

[kidde]

While not an answer, I have the big bottle of black and am glad I have it. The phenol smell isn't really strong in mine, but I find it reassuring when my ink smells like ink used to. I'll get the blue/black too. 12oz bottles of ink dwarf all I have except for an empty quart that held Skrip.

 

Paul

[Lou Erickson]

I have both Pilot Blue-Black and Namiki Blue. The Blue-Black is a Japanese import, and the Namiki Blue is a US bottle.

 

I opened them up and had a sniff. They smell the same.

 

Then I opened up my bottle of phenol and had a sniff. Yeah, that's the smell.

 

(The things I do for you people! )

 

There's a good thread over in Inky Thoughts about how to dose inks with biocide (usually phenol) to either prevent or clear up biological growth.

 

Vintage inks used phenol commonly. It works well with ink.

[Drone]

...(The things I do for you people! )...

 

He he...

The use of Phenol in the ink as an anti-SITB agent (i.e., Biocide) makes sense provided the overall pH of the ink is fairly neutral or (preferably) non-acidic (pH > 7.0). Remember Phenol (carbolic acid) is acidic (pH 9.95 pKa in water). I would think these days, modern ink manufacturers might use something other than Phenol as a Biocide. Maybe that's why so many modern inks really have no odor like vintage inks. (Too bad.)

Thanks for the Inky Thoughts link. I remember seeing this link on the Tryphon-branded proprietary product Sterilink, but I don't know what's in that concoction:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/7880-

tryphon-ink-additives/

 

Thanks, David

[Drone]

Interesting... I thought I would take a quick look at what Richard Binder's wonderful Reference Pages say about inks and biocides ink. I ran across this:

 

http://www.richardspens.com/?page=ref/glossary/P.htm#phenol

 

 

Phenol - Any of a class of weakly acidic organic compounds containing one or more hydroxyl (-OH) groups; the most common has the formula C₆H₅OH. Phenol is an effective fungicide, acting as a protoplasmic poison, and was used for this purpose in ink until prohibited by law. (It is also toxic to forms of life other than fungi and is regulated as a Class B poison.) Phenol has a sweet, tar-like odor that is readily detected in inks containing it. See also fungicide.

 

So Richard Binder says the use of Phenol in ink is "prohibited by law".

 

Really? Why is that? Is Phenol (carbolic acid) banned from use in mild household antiseptics as well? I don't think so, but I'm no chemical materials expert by any means.

 

I would think the biocide concentrations in fountain pen inks would be very small and therefore relatively harmless unless grossly and intentionally abused.

 

Or is this some kind of child-protection gone amok thing specific to America or the EU where (perhaps) children are for some eerie reason predisposed to guzzling fountain pen ink and/or Lawyers are prone to sue at the drop of a hat?

 

Hmmm....

Edited October 1, 2014 by Drone

[Drone]

FYI I bought my 350ml bottle of Pilot Blue-Black from Taizo-San at Engeika (not affiliated other than a customer):

Taizo Okagaki (Engeika Finest Shop)

http://www.engeika.com/

Engeika is OK to deal with in my opinion; and their prices are quite competitive. Just make sure you coordinate with them via Email when your shipment is expected to actually go out. Sometimes harder to find items (pens especially) can take some time to ship from Engeika. In my limited experience with Engeika, they haven't been very pro-active about informing you what the status of your order is. But in the end Engeika comes through OK. I'm happy with them - or I wouldn't go back.

[Lou Erickson]

I don't have details on the changes that made Phenol go out of favor. What I've read is that animal testing suggested ingesting massive quantities might be dangerous. My understanding is that the production of items with phenol in them became more difficult as there was more regulation to prevent health issues on the people who work with it every day. This and a general public distrust made it both more expensive to use and less accepted by many consumers, so some companies went to other chemicals.

 

I don't think that Phenol itself was ever banned, and I know it's used in several common things. Since it is the active ingredient in Chloraseptic throat spray, which is actually intended to be ingested, then it can't be all that toxic.

[Mr.Rene]

I agree with Lou Erickson

[Drone]

I don't have details on the changes that made Phenol go out of favor. What I've read is that animal testing suggested ingesting massive quantities might be dangerous. My understanding is that the production of items with phenol in them became more difficult as there was more regulation to prevent health issues on the people who work with it every day. This and a general public distrust made it both more expensive to use and less accepted by many consumers, so some companies went to other chemicals.

 

I don't think that Phenol itself was ever banned, and I know it's used in several common things. Since it is the active ingredient in Chloraseptic throat spray, which is actually intended to be ingested, then it can't be all that toxic.

 

Chloraseptic - Good example; an effective and time-proven product from my experience. But as you allude: Chloraseptic may be OK only if you avoid ingesting massive quantities of it.

 

Bisphenols (e.g. Bisphenol-A), Alkylphenols (Nonylphenols in-general) and on and on. All are chemically related but functionally unrelated. Yet all are targets of the uninformed and/or greedy in some "environmental" movements (not that all environmental movements are bad mind-you). But what the heck, they all have "Phenol" in them - so let's just ban Phenol too.

 

Now if you will excuse me. I'm late for my mid-morning ink infusion...

[Keyless Works]

FYI I bought my 350ml bottle of Pilot Blue-Black from Taizo-San at Engeika (not affiliated other than a customer):

 

Taizo Okagaki (Engeika Finest Shop)

 

http://www.engeika.com/

 

Engeika is OK to deal with in my opinion; and their prices are quite competitive. Just make sure you coordinate with them via Email when your shipment is expected to actually go out. Sometimes harder to find items (pens especially) can take some time to ship from Engeika. In my limited experience with Engeika, they haven't been very pro-active about informing you what the status of your order is. But in the end Engeika comes through OK. I'm happy with them - or I wouldn't go back.

 

May I ask how much you paid? Looking on that auction sight I see its about $30 a bottle shipped for blue.