Pilot Pens F And Ef Can They Be Smooth, Wet Writers?

[MTHALL720]

I have pretty much come to the conclusion I want one or more of the following but the ones I am looking at are all Fine or Extra Fine. Wonder if any or all of these will still be smooth, wet writers with very little tooth feel to them?

pilot Prera, Elite, Cocoon, Metro.

Any thoughts? Thank you. I have Google all of these and read a lot but still not too sure about these aspects.

[mooshi]

My Pilot VP (one in EF, one in F) as well as my Preras (F) have been phenomenal writers. I never felt that they were toothy. The wetness depended on the ink used - I never felt that they were dry, but they weren't too wet either... juuuuust right. Pilot nibs are hands down, my favorite because of their consistency in QC, they work right out of the package without tinkering, and they lay down a nice line, every time.

[napalm]

Subjective opinion: to me the gold nib F and EF Pilots feel wetter than the steel nib ones, possibly due to the different wetting properties (ink vs gold / ink vs iron) or a different feed shape/material. In M size they are about the same.

[inotrym]

Prera in F is superb! One of my favorite knock around pens.

 

I recently tried the EF nib of a Penmanship. It's indeed thinner than the F but it feels quite a bit toothier. Not to the point of being called scratchy, but definately not as enjoyable as the F. Imo, the F nib is thin enough, so the line difference is not worth the sacrifice of smoothness.

 

The flow is just right and with the right ink you can adjust the pen to your taste.

[Notgatherox]

I do believe the Metro comes in a medium nib?

 

But yes, the F and EF of Pilots are smooth enough... not glassy smooth, but not what you'll call scratchy. Feedback (ever so slightly) seems to be the right word.

 

 

~Epic

[Abner C. Kemp]

Subjective opinion: to me the gold nib F and EF Pilots feel wetter than the steel nib ones, possibly due to the different wetting properties (ink vs gold / ink vs iron) or a different feed shape/material. In M size they are about the same.

 

I agree the fine nib steel nib in my metropolitan is on the dry side although still pleasant enough to use. The medium steel nib in my other metropolitan is definitely on the wet side.

[LamyOne]

Hello MTHall and everyone else,

 

My experience with Pilot pens has been on the grimmer side, too. So far, I've owned six 78Gs, one Prera and five or six Metropolitans - and have had the same experience with all of them to one degree or another - they were ALL TOO DRY!!! (The Metros did seem the wettest of the Pilots I've used, but even they were still too dry for me). I will say in their defense, I always thought their nibs were on the smooth side, just not wet enough for me, (except for the 78G broads - those were quite scratchy).

 

After pondering this for a while, the conclusion I came up with, (I don't know if it is right or not), is that Pilot pens are tuned towards the Asian writer, i.e., slow and methodical - writing a symbolic language is more of a deliberate action; I would think. (Ironically, Sailor, another Asian company does make their pens wet ). I also think that is why Pilots are so popular with the younger members here, because I believe most of them print, (which is also a slower and methodical writing practice). However, I use script, (cursive), and I have a quick and flourished hand - as such, I need wet writers.

 

I'll be curious to read here if anyone has any good advice on how to make Pilot's wetter, (I like their overall build quality, but I hate their flow rate). BTW, I did try Steve Brown's video of trying to bend the tines up, but that technique didn't do anything for my Metropolitan but make it a little scratchy.

 

Best regards,

 

Chris

Edited September 28, 2014 by LamyOne

[MTHALL720]

My Pilot VP (one in EF, one in F) as well as my Preras (F) have been phenomenal writers. I never felt that they were toothy. The wetness depended on the ink used - I never felt that they were dry, but they weren't too wet either... juuuuust right. Pilot nibs are hands down, my favorite because of their consistency in QC, they work right out of the package without tinkering, and they lay down a nice line, every time.

Good news indeed. Thanks much!

[MTHALL720]

Hello MTHall,

 

My experience with Pilot pens has been on the grimmer side. So far, I've owned several 78Gs, one Prera and five or six Metropolitans - and have the same experience with all of them to one degree or another - they were ALL TOO DRY!!! (The Metros did seem the wettest of the Pilots I've used, but even they were still too dry for me). I will say in their defense, I always thought their nibs were smooth, just not wet enough for me, (except for the 78G broads - those were quite scratchy).

 

After pondering this for a while, the conclusion I came up with, (I don't know if it is right or not), is that Pilot pens are tuned towards the Asian writer, i.e., slow and methodical - writing a symbolic language is more of a deliberate action. (Ironically, Sailor, another Asian company does make their pens wet ). I also think that is why they are so popular with the younger members here, because I think most of them print, (which is also a slower and methodical writing practice). However, I use script, (cursive), and I have a quick and flourished hand - as such, I need wet writers.

 

I'll be curious to read here if anyone has any good advice on how to make Pilot's wetter; I did try Steve Brown's video of trying to bend the tines up, but that technique didn't do anything for my Metropolitan but make it a little scratchy.

 

Best regards,

 

Chris

Chris I have only had the 78G, and to me it is dry. You do make a good point that in Asia a lot of people are writing Japanese characters rather than writing in English using cursive, which is what I do so I do like a real wet nib which glides across paper.

I am close to 60 years old so I grew up learning to write in cursive. My grandmother was an English teacher.

I actually took two semesters in Japanese language in college. Loved the speaking, although I didn't amass a big vocabulary.

Writing on the other hand drove me crazy. Loved the simple Katakana and Hiragana, but the Kanji characters is where I threw in the towel. Super fine point pens would work well for Kanji.

 

What I am really trying to do is stick to my modest budget of about $60.00 and find a dependable, right from the box, smooth, wet pen, which is fairly large. Currently I only have one cheap but great writing pen, which is the Jinhao X450.

[LamyOne]

Hello MTHall,

 

I'm impressed. I didn't know the Japanese language came in three tiers; having a familiarity with two of the three isn't bad.

 

I do not know if you're "married" to the Asian brands or not; however, I would be remiss if I didn't suggest a Lamy Studio to you. The pen is large, (not super large), and is a smooth, usually wet writer. You may want to check out some reviews for them; I think they're a great all-around pen. The Al-Star is also a great all-around pen, but not as professional looking, (of course, I'm a little biased). They price out at $70 for the brushed stainless steel, (close to your budget), and $80 for the enameled ones.

 

If you are married to the Asian brands, I've heard some good things about the TWSBI 580s. Stay clear of the Vac, (you have to play games with the plunger to keep a steady supply of ink going), and stay away from 530s and 540s as they seem to crack a lot. Mind you, I have never owned a TWSBI, I am just relating everything that I have read here and elsewhere.

 

Sailor's are nice, but on the pricey side.

 

Best regards,

 

Chris

Edited September 28, 2014 by LamyOne

[TheRealScubaSteve]

 

I agree the fine nib steel nib in my metropolitan is on the dry side although still pleasant enough to use. The medium steel nib in my other metropolitan is definitely on the wet side.

 

Mine are the same way. Fine nib is not super-dry like the cheap Chinese EF nibs, but it certainly could not be called wet. I have not tried to make it wetter, but I don't doubt that it could be made wet fairly easily, as I did with the medium nib.

[ac12]

Wonder if any or all of these will still be smooth, wet writers with very little tooth feel to them?

 

Yes, but...

...this will also depend on your choice of ink and paper, and your hand.

 

If you do not have enough ink flow, there will not be enough lubrication under the tip. This is a combination of the flow characteristic of the pen itself and the flow characteristic of the ink. They have to match up to give you the desired ink flow. You can't put a dry ink into a dry pen and expect a wet writer. You can usually adjust (or get adjusted) the nib to get the ink flow you want.

 

If the paper is not HARD and SMOOTH, you won't get smooth writing.

The paper has to be hard enough to not suck up the ink too fast, or there won't be lube under the tip.

The paper has to be smooth enough for the XF tip to glide on w/o snagging the texture or fibers of the paper.

This can be the killer if you have no control over the paper that you use.

 

Finally your hand pressure.

If you write with little to no pressure, the pen will write smoother than if you press the pen into the paper. Pressing the pen into the paper, forces the tip to ride into every depression on the paper and try to snag paper fibers.

Edited September 29, 2014 by ac12

[Water Ouzel]

If you are married to the Asian brands, I've heard some good things about the TWSBI 580s. Stay clear of the Vac, (you have to play games with the plunger to keep a steady supply of ink going)

Having a couple Vac 700's, I would contest any "you have to play games with the plunger..." characterization of the pen. A feature of the Vac 700, as well as some other vacuum fillers like the Pilot Custom 823, is that you can seal the ink supply from the feed. This has benefits if you're flying or driving over high elevations, or traveling somewhere and experiencing wide temperature swings.

 

With the Vac 700 (or Custom 823), you can uncap the pen and dash off a short note or ten before you might begin to see the ink flow begin to cut off. Unscrew the end cap a couple mm (for the 823) or plunger knob (and pull out on the knob a bit on the 700), and you can write on into next month (they've both got great ink capacity).

 

If this is really a huge problem, you can remove the end gasket on the piston (Goulet Pens has a good video on the process), and never have to worry about sustained ink flow again. (But I wouldn't bother; it's not an issue for me, and I do travel on occasion in areas where knowing the ink isn't going to bloop out is comforting. To say nothing about avoiding bringing ink leaks to my wife's attention on wash day...)

[Water Ouzel]

As for the original question...

 

My Pilot Custom 823 F is very smooth, and almost too wet for me.

 

My Metropolitan with F (from a 78g), and two more 78g's with F nibs are plenty wet enough for me (I tweaked my wife's 78g F's for wetter writing, mine for a bit less), and all are reasonably smooth. Modulo the paper being used.

 

One other 78g has an EF (from a Penmanship), and it's noticeably less smooth, and needed adjustment for more ink flow for me. But a couple of >$10 pens probably deserve a little leeway there.

[XiaoMG]

Cheap Pilot F and EF nibs are easy to adjust and easily replaced. Increasing flow is the easiest thing to do to a nib. Tipping symmetry and smoothness is variable; they can some of the smoother nibs you'll find, or they can be a bit scratchy. Again, with a loupe this is a relatively easy thing to fix most of the time.

 

I use a Pilot EF from a Penmanship in one of my 78G bodies, and I use an F in a Prera. My gold nibbed pens are EF, F, SF, and MF. The Prera/78G nibs can hold their own when properly aligned and symmetrical, and the flow is very easy to control.

[dothgrin]

I only have some scratchy issues (from my EF), but overall my 78G and Metros flow like a charm. Some inks have been fuzzy, but I have used 78Gs, Metros, Penmanship, Petit, and recently a Prera daily for a year now and only a couple of issues. I had more problems with a Lamy Vista, which tends to be a little more picky with certain inks.

[LamyOne]

Having a couple Vac 700's, I would contest any "you have to play games with the plunger..." characterization of the pen.

 

Those remarks were not based on any conjecture on my part, but rather from the owner's manual TWSBI includes with the pen. Who should know the pen's faults better than the company that manufactures it?

 

I also reiterate the fact that out of the 13 Pilot pens I've owned, NONE of them were wet writers.

 

Best regards,

 

Chris

Edited September 29, 2014 by LamyOne

[LamyOne]

Increasing flow is the easiest thing to do to a nib.

 

I wish you would expound on this. I used brass sheet from Goulet to floss the tines; I also tried that Steven Brown trick of trying to raise up the tines to make the pen wetter - neither technique yielded any positive results for me with the Pilots. Ironically, I do have a Lamy that was a little dry when I first got it and flossing the tines did work for that one.

 

Best regards,

 

Chris

[Icywolfe]

In my many Pilot pens none were ever toothy.

[subbu68]

Waiting for my Pilot Elite 95s and Celemo to be delivered. Ordered them with M nibs because the western equivalent of Pilot F a Lamy EF on my Studio and a ST felt very dry. However, a childhood tool to make pens write made the Lamy EF on my ST wetter and at the same time less scratchy - carefully ran a razor blade edge through the nib slit!!