What Makes The Pen? The Body Or The Nib?

[Icywolfe]

I mean as I have a Jinhao pen with a Schmit Converter and a Jowo Nib, and those are German. But the Jinhao body is China. So when somebody asks me where it was made. What do I say? China? or Germany?

 

Simple way without explaining to them it a franken pen.

 

[bardiir]

Assembled in the USA?

[Lyander0012]

Hum, I guess most people would be referring to the pen branding when they ask about a pen (Jinhao is a Chinese brand, so regardless of whom they buy their nibs from).

 

Also, since JoWo and Bock provide nibs for a LOT of manufacturers still extant today, and considering that one can assume that the nibs provided by either manufacturer will all perform within a certain range of wetness, springiness, etc, it's really up to a manufacturer to tune those nibs or leave them be as they see fit to differentiate them from stock.

 

I believe Pelikan nibs are manufactured by Bock, or that some of them still are, anyway (http://www.nibs.com/Jack%20Leone%20Bock%20Article.htm says that all Pelikan nibs were outsourced earlier on, but more recent info states that Pelikan has since started manufacturing most of their nibs in-house again)? Regardless, those outsourced nibs are differentiated from other brands' nibs by what tuning or customizations pen manufacturers choose to apply to them, so I'd say that even the end OOTB writing experience can be attributed to the brand rather than the nib maker. To a certain extent, anyway.

 

 

... Personally, though, I'm one of those that believe that the "soul" of a fountain pen lies in its nib

Kevin

[FoszFay]

If you take out both the nib and converter, and then cap the pen (empty body), and show someone they would see it as a pen. If you hold the nib and converter in your hand and ask someone what it is, they won't reply with "a pen", so I think the body makes the pen.

 

But then, you write with a pen (nib and ink), not with the barrel... There is actually no answer.

 

If a tree falls in the woods and no-one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

 

Tom.

Edited September 26, 2014 by FoszFay

[Bo Bo Olson]

Chase the nib....it makes such a difference, to have a selection, in not only width but in flex.

 

I'm not getting into "Flex" pens here, but one should have as a start, B, M, F &EF. The bold in nail, the F&M if one can find them in true regular flex...not the now common semi-nail. Regular flex is good for shading inks in M&F.

It is sad that many "regular" nibs today are semi-nails. One can get the real regular flex in semi-vintage '90's and before nibs.

 

I like semi-flex, which is not a "Flex" nib.

Got 26.

I have both the '60's round nib and the flatter '50's German 'stubbish' nibs....which I prefer. Both are good fun nibs.

 

I think after one has a basic set of nail/semi-nail and regular flex one should look for a nice soft springy ++ semi-flex. It is a regular writing pen, that due to the ease of flex, gives you some of that old fashioned fountain pen flair, with the first letter of a word being a bit wider and perhaps the last stroke of the last letter; depending on the letter. Not a fancy "Flex" nib.

Right now my nib, is a 400n's semi-flex B nib.

Sooner or later I got to ink one of my German semi-flex OB nibs....that are also .

 

Writing is 1/3 nib width&flex, 1/3 paper and 1/3 ink, and in that order.

Chase the nib.

 

Basicly, the good nibs are on vintage or semi-vintage pens.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Bo Bo Olson

[Icywolfe]

Chase the nib....it makes such a difference, to have a selection, in not only width but in flex.

 

I'm not getting into "Flex" pens here, but one should have as a start, B, M, F &EF. The bold in nail, the F&M if one can find them in true regular flex...not the now common semi-nail. Regular flex is good for shading inks in M&F.

It is sad that many "regular" nibs today are semi-nails. One can get the real regular flex in semi-vintage '90's and before nibs.

 

I like semi-flex, which is not a "Flex" nib.

Got 26.

I have both the '60's round nib and the flatter '50's German 'stubbish' nibs....which I prefer. Both are good fun nibs.

 

I think after one has a basic set of nail/semi-nail and regular flex one should look for a nice soft springy ++ semi-flex. It is a regular writing pen, that due to the ease of flex, gives you some of that old fashioned fountain pen flair, with the first letter of a word being a bit wider and perhaps the last stroke of the last letter; depending on the letter. Not a fancy "Flex" nib.

Right now my nib, is a 400n's semi-flex B nib.

Sooner or later I got to ink one of my German semi-flex OB nibs....that are also .

 

Writing is 1/3 nib width&flex, 1/3 paper and 1/3 ink, and in that order.

Chase the nib.

 

Basicly, the good nibs are on vintage or semi-vintage pens.

Huh?

 

Just a question: I do not see how does this relate to the topic?

[mirosc]

it's called "World Pen" - globalisation rules!

[Icywolfe]

Assembled in the USA?

 

 

it's called "World Pen" - globalisation rules!

 

"Made in the World" then "Assembled in the US"

 

Sounds just about right, lol.

[Kataphract]

What makes the pen, rather than what I suspect you mean, who makes the pen? Is my Twsbi a Chinese pen - piston filler, body, feed, cap, overall design, or German because they outsource the nib? Twsbi made pretty much all the decisions that defined the pen. They don't like the nib? They'll outsource it to someone else, and that might not be a German source. It's like buying an American Bicycle with Japanese gears, Chinese forks, German chain, French shifters, and British tires. Bits and pieces come from all over the place, but the usual definition is who makes the overall design decisions. I suppose they could do it Formula One style and call it a Twsbi-JoWo, as opposed to the earlier Twsbi-Bock. Hey, it works for McLaren-Mercedes! But the relationship isn't the same for pens, and it's more gun for hire rather than a partnership, I think.

[Bo Bo Olson]

He asked what makes the pen, the body or the nib.

The nib....and explained to some one, why the nib is most important, and there is more to nibs than just where it was made or by whom. When matters.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Bo Bo Olson

[Randal6393]

Actually, Icywolfe, I don't think there is a simple way to explain where a frankenpen comes from. If a simple answer is needed, then "China" or "My pocket" suffices. If the person is asking a true question, interpreted as "Why is this pen superior to another?", then nib from Germany, body from China is better. In my experience, most people are using such a question as a filler, a question asked to fill the silence.

 

As you have discovered, the best pens are the ones that give superior performance and often are frankenpens (pen mutts? international pens?). My Konrads all have JoWo nibs, except for the two Conklin nibs that I pulled from goofed-up bodies and reused. I am grateful that Nathan produces pens, don't know what I would do without them.

 

Enjoy,

[aussielondon]

What makes the pen? ... The penmaker... (sorry, I couldn't resist )

 

I think it's a combination of both, as the comfort in holding the pen is important too as it can affect the writing as much as the nib I think.

[Christi0469]

I agree with Kevin that a pen's country of origin is based on the location of the country that makes it. We consider Apple an American company even though they outsource some of their products and we consider a Toyota car Japanese even if it was made at an American plant.

[Keyless Works]

While the nib is more important than the body it's a Chinese pen. It designed and assembled in China by a Chinese company.

 

A VW Golf (the ones sold in the USA) are made in Mexico out of 75% German made parts and the company is German but the car still says made and Mexico on the sticker.

 

A pair of Double RL jeans is made out fabric entirely woven in Japan but the tag says made in USA because that is where they are assembled.

[zaddick]

Similar to others above, I would say:

 

The answer to the causal question is the name of the body maker or the country of manufacture.

 

The answer to the question in the thread is primarily the nib but the body is important too. I'd say the proportion for me is around 70% nib, 30% body.

[Baric]

I mean as I have a Jinhao pen with a Schmit Converter and a Jowo Nib, and those are German. But the Jinhao body is China. So when somebody asks me where it was made. What do I say? China? or Germany?

 

Simple way without explaining to them it a franken pen.

 

 

Give them your address/country/state etc. It's the truth. A pen is the sum of its parts and how they all work together. It's not just the nib or the body, it the whole package. Your pen is utterly unique in the world and you made it. It's like with furniture, some cabinet maker in the Green Mountains of Vermont makes a beautiful chair out of exotic woods grown all of the world. Where does he say the chair was made? Vermont... even though the woods came from South America and Africa, the leather from Canada, the hardware form some factory in Ohio. Would you call him wrong? Why would you be any different from our fictional carpenter? Yes, it probably took him longer than it took you, but that's just a matter of scale.

 

Kevin/Lyander0012,

 

As far as I know, Pelikan makes all their gold nibs in house and has for quite a long time. Not sure about their steel nibs or gold-plated nibs. You can find videos on YouTube showing Pelikans being made from the nib back.

[pendexter]

I think the best answer is to just tell them that it's a franken pen. It's like a secret handshake

[Christi0469]

To answer the question is the thread header rather than the one in the post; nib+filling system=pen (channeling Brian Gray's defence of the converter pretty hard here). The body is comfort, convenience and window dressing. If the nib and filling system fail the pen fails. The country of origin is a separate issue.

[Downcelot]

vintage pens: 70% nib, 30% body. Modern pens: 70% body, 30% nib (sigh, those modern nibs are so similar imo).

[balson]

in the context of the question i think they would be more interested in the body of the pen, but the nib is really the heart and soul of the pen.