Overpriced

[Icywolfe]

Well I'm not saying only MB fans are like rabid dogs.

 

It's just that I've seen older threads on here about some person who had the pen and have issues with it. The firstpage is helpful stuff but the second page its accuations that the OP didnt have any clue how to use the pen. And at time its best for him to sell it.

 

Why was I looking at that brand? Well the 149 was once on my radar then The size and some people's pen just shattering like glass turned me away. And if I shattered a 146 I can at least recover from a 700 usd loss. Not a 1k loss.

[pajaro]

To me, this is a silly conversation. If you don't like something or think it costs too much, then don't buy it. And stop tearing down others who do like and can afford it. That's just bad manners...

 

+1.

 

I suspect inflation has driven up the price of everything so that it all seems overpriced, though. If someone can afford something, let them have it. It might not be to your taste, but someone else will be happy to have it.

 

If you feel strongly about the seeming absurdity of something, why not write a novel holding it up to ridicule and give the rest of us a good laugh, either about the item or your attempt to ridicule it.

[Algester]

Well I'm not saying only MB fans are like rabid dogs.

 

It's just that I've seen older threads on here about some person who had the pen and have issues with it. The firstpage is helpful stuff but the second page its accuations that the OP didnt have any clue how to use the pen. And at time its best for him to sell it.

 

Why was I looking at that brand? Well the 149 was once on my radar then The size and some people's pen just shattering like glass turned me away. And if I shattered a 146 I can at least recover from a 700 usd loss. Not a 1k loss.

if you want a pen that shatters like glass get a Sailor Arita HAHAHAHA research about this "pocket" pen for you to know what I'm talking about

Edited September 22, 2014 by Algester

[de_pen_dent]

It's just that I've seen older threads on here about some person who had the pen and have issues with it. The firstpage is helpful stuff but the second page its accuations that the OP didnt have any clue how to use the pen. And at time its best for him to sell it.

 

That's true for any brand to which people get attached. Take TWSBI - exact same thing happens there with it. But for the most part, I havent really noticed anything special about people being overly protective of MB compared to other brands.

Edited September 22, 2014 by de_pen_dent

[Cryptos]

 

Lastly, while you might prefer a "cost plus" model to determine fair pricing, that is definitely not the only way, especially when aesthetics come into play.

 

I did say that aesthetics were a factor (desirability, cachet and all that), but that they are less so for me... at least a lot of the time.

 

As for volume of sales, I think there is quite a lot of market manipulation with regard to luxury goods in general. Somebody mentioned a Veblen good recently and I had to go and look that up. Interesting concept, and one that is dear to the heart of many luxury brand companies I dare say. Frankly I find the concept unfathomable. The idea that by lowering the price alone can render something less desirable boggles the mind (at least my little mind anyway!).

[Sandy Fry]

No such thing as an overpriced pen!

 

A pen, or any other object, is only worth what YOU are willing to pay for it.

 

David

[Algester]

No such thing as an overpriced pen!

 

A pen, or any other object, is only worth what YOU are willing to pay for it.

 

David

just as a certain book says read by Doc Brown

[Kuscer]

OK I didn't actually mean $800 I just meant really expensive

In my case it was $800

[Kuscer]

 

+1.

 

I suspect inflation has driven up the price of everything so that it all seems overpriced, though. If someone can afford something, let them have it. It might not be to your taste, but someone else will be happy to have it.

 

If you feel strongly about the seeming absurdity of something, why not write a novel holding it up to ridicule and give the rest of us a good laugh, either about the item or your attempt to ridicule it.

I mean that some pen's aren't worth the money they're sold for because they're not that luxurious

Edited September 22, 2014 by FP189

[Algester]

I mean how luxurious can we get on plastic... I would be fine to define luxurious if it was studded with diamonds or have a legit reason to guarantee such a price markup like say asides from Omas, Montegrappa and Visconti who can make pens at 1K USD we have Sailor... I would say Romilio and Sailor are the winners here Sailor makes them from porcelain for one (TAKE CARE NOT TO DROP THIS BABY)... Romilio handcrafted from start to finish? custom even... Danitrio... if you like a very... art pen?

http://fpgeeks.com/?post_type=post&price_clas=luxury

you know what... screw it...

Edited September 22, 2014 by Algester

[Christi0469]

I googled "worlds most expensive pen" and a Montblanc ad was the 1st result. But the most expensive fountain pen is actually the Fulgar Nocturnus (by Tibaldi) which sold for $8 million at auction at 2010.

 

Still it sold so it's not overpriced in the strictest sense, but that price is a jaw-dropper.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Christi0469

[Algester]

I googled "worlds most expensive pen" and a Montblanc ad was the 1st result. But the most expensive fountain pen is actually the Fulgar Nocturnus (by Tibaldi) which sold for $8 million at auction at 2010.

 

Still it sold so it's not overpriced in the strictest sense, but that price is a jaw-dropper.

http://www.skitzone.com/2010/top-10-most-expensive-pens-in-the-world/

this is still of relevance the fact THESE PENS STILL ARENT SOLD for one...

[Koyote]

Have you ever seen a really nice pen and thought: ''Oh man I want that pen!'' Then you saw it was like $800 and you just couldn't afford it. There are so many overpriced pens out there and it's just not fair! Share your opinions!

 

So, "fair" means that you can afford it?

 

That attitude will leave you perpetually disappointed.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Koyote

[Koyote]

 

Disagree.

 

Essentially, when the retail price exceeds the cost of production by a certain factor then it is over-priced and exploitative.

 

In a comparison between (for example) a Nakaya and a MB 149, I think it is fair to say that there is a quantifiable and significant difference in the materials, workmanship and time that goes into a Nakaya. This means that the MB is overpriced for what it is: a machine produced item. That being said, MB exploit their market image in such a way that they currently - and for the foreseeable future - can inflate the price of their product knowing that people will buy for the name largely (but not wholly) irrespective of the quality.

 

"exploitative"? Seriously? No one forces you to buy it.

 

"Overpriced" is a word with no objective meaning. Firms can charge however much they want for most goods and services, and consumers can choose whether to pay the prices. You can try to define it, but other people will still buy the products that you deem "overpriced."

Edited September 22, 2014 by Koyote

[Cryptos]

I don't know why I have to keep coming back and clarifying this very simple concept (it's not even my thread).

 

Overpriced for me has nothing to do with the price alone, but rather its relationship to how I perceive the quality of the good.

 

As an example - sorry MB - but $1000 for a plastic pen is not a good equation in my opinion. Calling it 'precious resin' is a pure deception: it's plastic, get over yourselves.

 

I don't really see how this could be any clearer.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Cryptos

[inkstainedruth]

"Overpriced" is a relative term. (I'm with Cryptos on this -- it's not just the price but the perceived perception of the quality for that price.

If it's a pen I don't want, and is very expensive (say, a Montblanc) I consider it "overpriced."

If it's a pen that I do want, but more expensive than I think it should be, it's overpriced -- such as a Parker Vector for more than $20.

If it's a pen I want that I paid more for what the actual condition of the pen is, it's overpriced; an example of that would be my Parker Vac Shadow Wave, which turned out to be in worse condition than the seller implied (and that initial "perceived value" *included* my initial calculations on what I'd have to pay over and above the "hammer price" for getting the pen in up and running condition -- i.e., working).

OTOH, I paid way more than what I'm going to end up spening on the Shadow Wave for a 1990s era Pelikan M 400 Brown Tortoise. Which is to date my most expensive pen by a fair amount. Overpriced? Nope -- in fact I got it for less than my maximum bid, and for a whole lot less than a brand spanky new M 400 would cost (*plus* Pelikan doesn't seem to make the Brown Tortoise ones anymore). If it had not been a good writer, I might have said "overpriced". But it's lovely -- a juicy 14K F nib, a beautiful looking finish, a perfect size and weight for my hands and a complete joy to write with. Not a bargain, mind you. But definitely, IMO a fair value.

The Plum Parker 51 Demi was a bargain -- not a sumgai, by any stretch of the imagination, but a bargain. Again, I paid less than my maximum bid was, and I've seen others go for a lot more money (not only before, but after I got mine. It's a bit of a beater, but then I'm looking for pens I can write with -- not pens to stick inside a glass trophy case.

And if it's a pen that is too expensive for me (at the moment) but is desirable for other reasons that justify its possible price, it's NOT overpriced. Just more than I can afford. That would be the absolutely gorgeous burgundy Shadow Wave I saw at DCSS last month. Overpriced? Probably not. Affordable? Sigh, no....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[frenchguy86]

I don't know why I have to keep coming back and clarifying this very simple concept (it's not even my thread).

 

Overpriced for me has nothing to do with the price alone, but rather its relationship to how I perceive the quality of the good.

 

As an example - sorry MB - but $1000 for a plastic pen is not a good equation in my opinion. Calling it 'precious resin' is a pure deception: it's plastic, get over yourselves.

 

I don't really see how this could be any clearer.

 

I have kind of the same position for the ''precious resin'' stuff as an owner of a modern parker duofold. But there's also another reality: market price for gold at the moment is 39$ per gram and that's before any transformation that would turn that into a nib. People will gonna have to pay for any type of oversize nib made of gold with or without the branding ''fees''.

Edited September 22, 2014 by frenchguy86

[Koyote]

I don't know why I have to keep coming back and clarifying this very simple concept (it's not even my thread).

 

Overpriced for me has nothing to do with the price alone, but rather its relationship to how I perceive the quality of the good.

 

As an example - sorry MB - but $1000 for a plastic pen is not a good equation in my opinion. Calling it 'precious resin' is a pure deception: it's plastic, get over yourselves.

 

I don't really see how this could be any clearer.

 

You've clarified your point, but perhaps you should not be so exasperated. After all, you did use much stronger (and illogical) language in plenty of earlier posts -- such as calling it "exploitative" when a seller charges a price that you deem too far above cost. There is no logic to that statement, only personal judgment, and it is impossible for such a firm to exploit you given that purchasing is a choice.

 

You also implied (I'm giving the benefit of the doubt in using that term) that any person who buys a pen that you deem "overpriced" has made a mistake. Again, trying to universalize your judgment.

 

You now seem to be defining "overpriced" as relative to your perception of quality, which is a personal judgment. Others will disagree with you.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Koyote

[Just I]

As others have said, I believe overpriced is a very subjective concept.

 

When it comes to the cost of a pen, you really can't boil it down to the percentage of markup over the cost of pen production. Marketing and brand placement can be a huge cost - for example Mont Blanc spends a lot more than TWSBI on marketing to maintain their brand.

 

You can't discount the value of the branding as irrelevant because it can play a key roll as to why someone chooses that pen over another, especially with a status-luxury brand. Image does matter. Even if it does not matter to you, it matters to some people which means it matters to the market.

 

I think this is what is so cool about the fountain pen community - we have reached the point where there are so many options available that everyone can be included. We all value something different in our pens. For some, part of that is the image and marketing for others it might be the history of a vintage pen or the ability to tinker with the nib and feel they contributed to how well it writes. At the risk of tossing another brand in here, an example might be my Ahab. Part of the value of the pen for me is the tinkering while I am sure others find that to be why it is overpriced.

 

To answer the initial question, yep, there are many pens I would love to own but that are currently at a price point that I cannot/choose not to pay. I don't really consider it to be "not fair" though.

[Cryptos]

So, Koyote, I used a poor choice of words ("exploitative")... who has never done this? You?

 

 

You now seem to be defining "overpriced" as relative to your perception of quality, which is a personal judgment. Others will disagree with you.

 

A piece of plastic that costs $10 to produce is a piece of plastic that costs $10 to produce. Sticking a logo on it does not change this.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Cryptos