Overpriced

[WaskiSquirrel]

I don't know if any pen is overpriced as long as it is selling. I know of a number of pens that are too expensive, but that is a personal thing based on income and the amount one is comfortable spending.

 

Overpriced pens don't sell.

 

Montblancs don't interest me, but there is a Nakaya I'm saving for. By Christmas I will be there. The pen is ridiculously expensive, and I already know that when I get that December 20 paycheck, I'm not going to buy the pen. It's just a game of saving for me. I really like the pen, but am not comfortable putting that percentage of my paycheck into a single pen. But, that doesn't make it overpriced, just expensive. Others who have different income or different comfort levels with spending might buy it.

 

But, if the pen languishes in the the store because everyone looks at it and says, "Too much," then the pen is overpriced.

[Icywolfe]

 

Yeah, but I dont think you are in here writing pages upon why MB is such a monstrosity and all MB buyers are misguided fools with more money than sense, or desperate people searching for social status, or whatever else passes as insult-du-jour.

 

Those like you, who genuinely find that the MB 149 doesnt fit their price/value heuristic, go about their lives and dont rant and rave about it on FPN regularly.

 

And while specifically on the MB 149 and overpriced:

 

I used to, and still do, think that the 149 was/is overpriced. But I wanted to have the original, classic cigar pen in my collection and got one, albeit at a huge discount over list. And I like the pen enough that I just got the 90th Anniv model as well. So is the pen still overpriced if I liked it enough to buy 2? Or is merely me wishing that it would be cheaper?

I can write pages why the 149 is comical. Price and Size. At least the m1000 isn't fat so it has more of a pen like body.

 

But I can't because of the MB fans are too vicious. Like rabid dogs.

 

For me it's overpriced and comical that I'll only accept it when somebody of importance gives it to me. If I had a option of buying a 300 USD Pilot pen or MB 149 at 20 dollars. I'll get the Pilot pen. And think about is the 149 really worth it. If it was a 146 then it will be a harder choice as that pen has better value than 149. So for me it's not me wishing it was cheaper, I just don't see the value ratio as being good. MB pens shared with Pelikan pens (but the M800 or the M1000 is much higher on my goal list.) share the worst value ratio. (imo.) And because MB sells hygiene products.

[Cryptos]

I wrote:

 

I chose MB as the bad boy in this thread simply for convenience and everyone knows who they are. I don't actually have a thing about MB. Can I afford one? Certainly can! Will I buy one? No, because I think they are overpriced for what you get.

 

Somebody else wrote:

 

You do not like MB, that is fine. Just do not expect everyone to agree with you.

 

I didn't say I didn't like MB (see bold parts for illumination), I said I thought they were overpriced.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Cryptos

[Baric]

To me, this is a silly conversation. If you don't like something or think it costs too much, then don't buy it. And stop tearing down others who do like and can afford it. That's just bad manners...

[Cryptos]

I think it outstanding that you should comment on my right to free speech. Well done!

 

<this is a tongue in cheek post, just in case nobody gets that>

Edited September 21, 2014 by Cryptos

[KBeezie]

I think it outstanding that you should comment on my right to free speech. Well done!

 

<this is a tongue in cheek post, just in case nobody gets that>

This is a message board hosted on someone's private server, technically private property. So technically you have no free speech here.

[Christi0469]

There seems to be a lot snobbery and reverse-snobbery concerning luxury brands like Montblanc. There are guilty parties on both sides, though more seem to fall in the "luxury pens over overpriced" camp. Personally I believe that those expensive pens cannot possibly be worth their pricetags (and I wouldn't buy a new MB even if I won the lottery) but that is my opinion based on my value system. That doesn't mean that people who purchase these pen are idiotic, gullible or status seekers. Nor does it mean that everyone who echews these pens can't afford them (and are jealous of those who can) or just have never experienced a "real pen". Trying to convert the other camp is pointless and insulting.

 

I believe more post the MB is overpriced because that view is more in line with general perception (most people believe that $10 is too much to spend on a pen). Some people propably do buy MB to look more affluent and important, but painting everybody with that brush is unfair. IMO MB is picked on most often because it is a very well -known luxury brand that carries an aura of success and affluence.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Christi0469

[Cryptos]

 

This is a message board hosted on someone's private server, technically private property. So technically you have no free speech here.

 

:P Well, technically technically my right to free speech remains in place and the owner of the site has no authority to override it. Technically though the owner can restrict or bar my entry to this place, but that has no impact on my right to free speech per se. A technicality perhaps?

[Lyander0012]

Pardon me.

 

I've been following this thread since it pretty much started, but have refrained from replying because things began getting out of hand not very long ago. Topics like these (especially the topic of X price for X fountain pen) almost invariably ends up as either a full-blown flame war or a passive-aggressively worded conversation.

 

This could just be me, but it's all really rather childish.

 

If someone thinks a certain brand is much too exorbitant with their pricing and that their items aren't good value, then fine, but what's to gain from depriving others of their enjoyment of said brand? If another is perfectly fine with brand X and thinks derogatory things about individuals who choose not to purchase X not because they *can't* (that would just be (expletive), really), then fine, but they aren't free to critique another for their tastes. Either or neither of these scenarios happened in this thread.

 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, which is both a beautiful thing and a right pain. The latter is because you have to listen to those of others whether you want to or not. We're all essentially animals in the scientific sense, albeit animals with self-awareness and higher thought processes. Bound as we may be by our passions and desires for people, objects, ideals and the like, we nonetheless have the capacity to censor ourselves when we know we might be impinging on the rights of another.

 

And really. As earlier stated this is all hosted on an individual's server for the benefit of many others; must this poor person HAVE dozens of repeat topics on what is essentially a subjective matter crowding their server? I very rarely say this, but I feel it's quite appropriate for right now: for shame!

 

 

K.

[aawhite]

If anybody thinks that a pen is overpriced, then I ask: Compared to what? It has to be compared to an "equal" pen that can be a substitute in all aspects of the pen.

 

Surely, if a person thinks a pen is overpriced, then that person must have some idea of what the correct (non-overpriced) price should be. You have to have a basis of comparison of prices for the same item.

 

Example: A can of softdrink is overpriced in a 5-star hotel compared to the "same" can of softdrink in a supermarket.

Edited September 22, 2014 by aawhite

[KamenRitter]

After doing some researches on the things I want, before I purchase an item, I usually make a simple plot on price-to-functionality ratio and compare it with price-to-looks ratio, and make a regression line out of it. From there, I could usually find where the particular item I want to purchase lies at, and decide if it's worth the price or not. Usually, the things above the regression line are what I consider expensive. From there, you could make a simple quadrant map of what's overpriced and what's a good bargain.

 

It's all subjective, but given enough samples to review, you kinda get where your ideal products are.

Edited September 22, 2014 by KamenRitter

[Cryptos]

 

If anybody thinks that a pen is overpriced, then I ask: Compared to what? It has to be compared to an "equal" pen that can be a substitute in all aspects of the pen.

 

I tend to disagree, in part at least. If a pen cost $100 to produce (including everything), the question for me is what do I consider a fair mark-up on this cost. If the pen could be sold at an obscene (IMO) profit for, say, $500, but is instead sold for $1000 then I have to conclude that it is grossly overpriced with respect to outlay cost.

 

Desirability, cachet and so on are indeed other factors that may lead to a purchase, but for me they are far outweighed by the retail price to manufacturing cost ratio. I hasten to add that a lot of the time I estimate this and so could be wildly inaccurate. However, one has to make a decision somehow, and that's how I tend to do it. I don't really know how other people approach this.

[Brian K]

I can write pages why the 149 is comical. Price and Size. At least the m1000 isn't fat so it has more of a pen like body.

 

But I can't because of the MB fans are too vicious. Like rabid dogs.

 

For me it's overpriced and comical that I'll only accept it when somebody of importance gives it to me. If I had a option of buying a 300 USD Pilot pen or MB 149 at 20 dollars. I'll get the Pilot pen. And think about is the 149 really worth it. If it was a 146 then it will be a harder choice as that pen has better value than 149. So for me it's not me wishing it was cheaper, I just don't see the value ratio as being good. MB pens shared with Pelikan pens (but the M800 or the M1000 is much higher on my goal list.) share the worst value ratio. (imo.) And because MB sells hygiene products.

 

 

I have a 149 I bought new for, I think, $279.00 maybe 30 years ago. I had a 146 and gave it away when the 149 proved to be a better pen for me. I have smallish hands for a man , yet , rather than "comically large," it fits my hand well and is confortable and well balanced - posted or unposted - for all day use. It has not been babied but has proved to be one tough son-of-a-gun of a pen. Is it my favorite or will I never part with it? I don't know but I have to chuckle every time someone who has never handled and written with a 149 condemns all of them out of hand. Is mine the same as a modern 149? No, and I can not speak to the quality of the modern iterations of the model, but based on personal experience I'd have to say Mb knows a thing or two about pens.

[Christi0469]

If anybody thinks that a pen is overpriced, then I ask: Compared to what? It has to be compared to an "equal" pen that can be a substitute in all aspects of the pen.

 

Surely, if a person thinks a pen is overpriced, then that person must have some idea of what the correct (non-overpriced) price should be. You have to have a basis of comparison of prices for the same item.

 

Example: A can of softdrink is overpriced in a 5-star hotel compared to the "same" can of softdrink in a supermarket.

I respectfully disagree. Whether a pen is overpriced, correctly priced or underpriced can be objectively determined by how quickly the product achieves it's sales targets. If the product reaches its target to early it's underpriced; if too late it's overpriced. Because we are not privy to Montblanc's sales targets we look at price changes. It's trickier still with Montblanc because they have a tight control over pricing so you don't see dealer level price reductions in the same way we would with other brands. They might prefer to leave models a bit overpriced to maintain their luxury image. So much of Montblanc's brand is tied up in perception (not an uncommon phenomenon with luxury brands) apples to apples comparisons are difficult because these brands are perceived in different ways.

 

An individual may perceive an item as overpriced (or not) for many different reasons, not all of them logical price comparisons. Even if you find 3 models of pens with identical specs their may be some intangible factor that raises the value of one over the other two. The can of soda analogy would tell us if a seller had priced a pen too high but not if the manufacturer had placed it too high (and that doesn't even account for differences in accessiblity, e.g. hotels, themeparks, airports in the case of soda).

 

Some individual may follow the price comparison model (it is a logical approach) but globally pricing theory is more complicated and subjective.

[Brian K]

I think it outstanding that you should comment on my right to free speech. Well done!

 

<this is a tongue in cheek post, just in case nobody gets that>

 

There is a difference between what we have a right to say and whether it is wise or polite to say it. Say what you want. I believe you have the right to (and I frequently agree with you, my friend) but you must be prepared to deal with the reactions of others to the exercise of said right.

 

(And yes, I noticed you said the above tongue in cheek, but so many believe that the right of free speech means it's OK say whatever you want without any recourse to filters or self control that I wanted to respond.)

[Icywolfe]

 

 

I have a 149 I bought new for, I think, $279.00 maybe 30 years ago. I had a 146 and gave it away when the 149 proved to be a better pen for me. I have smallish hands for a man , yet , rather than "comically large," it fits my hand well and is confortable and well balanced - posted or unposted - for all day use. It has not been babied but has proved to be one tough son-of-a-gun of a pen. Is it my favorite or will I never part with it? I don't know but I have to chuckle every time someone who has never handled and written with a 149 condemns all of them out of hand. Is mine the same as a modern 149? No, and I can not speak to the quality of the modern iterations of the model, but based on personal experience I'd have to say Mb knows a thing or two about pens.

When on a ladies sized Small glove is too big for you, you know you got small hands for a guy. That is my hands. The J95 might be the largest pen I can use without looking too weird. And when I saw the comparison pictures of the M800 to the J95 then the pictures of M800 to the 149. I realized that what ever godly magical stuff the 149 could do for me there is no way it would be useful enough.

 

I didn't condemn it. I said it will look comical on a person with small hand. (Me.) And the size of that pen compared to the M1000 is looks comical too. But I won't recommend random people to get a 149. I'll recommend them to get a Pilot or Platinum. Cheaper, sure. Good value, yes. Prestige, ummm maybe or maybe not.

[Cryptos]

 

There is a difference between what we have a right to say and whether it is wise or polite to say it. Say what you want. I believe you have the right to (and I frequently agree with you, my friend) but you must be prepared to deal with the reactions of others to the exercise of said right.

 

(And yes, I noticed you said the above tongue in cheek, but so many believe that the right of free speech means it's OK say whatever you want without any recourse to filters or self control that I wanted to respond.)

 

I was actually being ironic because the member that post addressed was designated as an American (not bashing, just having a bit of fun about the Amendment really). I, on the other hand, am British, and while I strongly believe in free speech I also equally strongly cleave to the principle that I should take responsibility for what I say or write. Which is why, after the heat of a discussion has passed, you will often find me apologising for any slights real or imagined. I have always been that way. There is no shame in this to my mind, though some people think there is.

 

That bit in parentheses.... totally agree, but I am not that person unless I am playing Devil's Advocate - and then I will usually say so.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Cryptos

[de_pen_dent]

I can write pages why the 149 is comical. Price and Size. At least the m1000 isn't fat so it has more of a pen like body.

 

But I can't because of the MB fans are too vicious. Like rabid dogs.

 

For me it's overpriced and comical that I'll only accept it when somebody of importance gives it to me. If I had a option of buying a 300 USD Pilot pen or MB 149 at 20 dollars. I'll get the Pilot pen. And think about is the 149 really worth it. If it was a 146 then it will be a harder choice as that pen has better value than 149. So for me it's not me wishing it was cheaper, I just don't see the value ratio as being good. MB pens shared with Pelikan pens (but the M800 or the M1000 is much higher on my goal list.) share the worst value ratio. (imo.) And because MB sells hygiene products.

 

That's ok. We accept that you dont like MBs and wouldnt choose one for $20. We are convinced - are you?

 

And for the record, us "rabid dogs" - as you so classily choose to label us - dont really care as much about your beliefs as you seem to think we do. I mean, I wrote an entire 3 pages of work-related stuff today with my 149 and not once did I or any of my fellow MB 149s packmates (we have meetings, you know) think "Icywolfe doesnt like MB 149s - we should get together as a pack and bite him".

 

Now, if you will excuse me, I need to go pee on a hydrant.

Edited September 22, 2014 by de_pen_dent

[de_pen_dent]

I tend to disagree, in part at least. If a pen cost $100 to produce (including everything), the question for me is what do I consider a fair mark-up on this cost. If the pen could be sold at an obscene (IMO) profit for, say, $500, but is instead sold for $1000 then I have to conclude that it is grossly overpriced with respect to outlay cost.

 

I hear what you are saying - but it isnt as simple as that.

 

If we are going purely on economics - sales volume also needs to be factored in. The margins on a product that sells 20k units are going to be very different from the margins on a product that sells 20 million units.

 

Then, who determines what is a fair margin? What sort of financing costs and risk exposure does the industry have? in some industries, 5% is a good margin. In other, anything less than 20-25% is financially unfeasible.

 

Third, what about other costs - marketing, cost of boutique shops, etc? You or I may think they are not useful - but we arent the CEO of the company and ultimately, the CEO gets to decide what his product's value proposition is.

 

Lastly, while you might prefer a "cost plus" model to determine fair pricing, that is definitely not the only way, especially when aesthetics come into play. Otherwise, can I get a few Picassos for $20 apiece, please?

Edited September 22, 2014 by de_pen_dent

[Algester]

over priced huh... I dunno... I dont want to be pretentious... <_< >_> but I agree I'm actually aiming for a semi-overpriced pen... GvFC classic anello in ebony... but I have yet to feel it to me the Lamy 2000 is just right the Pilot Custom Heritage 91 more so I can't just find my guts to bring the CH91 out all the time because... we don't have a Pilot FP retailer (they seem to be interested in carrying the FPs but I don't have a proper guarantee if ever it was only reported on the capless is coming (do I miss the capless isnt to my... taste?)... and special orders are a no no) ... which is well... weird... so is Faber-Castell and I'm not sure how were going to get them either

did I miss I actually like the CH91... hence I'm actually gunning for it's larger cousin the Custom Heritage 912... but I'm still saving up for my sister's pen... ALMOST THERE I SAY

Edited September 22, 2014 by Algester