What's The Difference?

[DrCodfish]

Between a "J", an "SJ", and a "J transitional"?

[FayeV]

Lots of Esterbrook info on this website: http://www.esterbrook.net/j3.shtml

 

J = full size

LJ = slender

SJ = demi

 

I'm sure someone can respond with specific measurements of each.

[pen lady]

And the Transitional or as it's sometimes known in these here parts "Tranny", has a flat-bottom barrel and a black jewel on the cap that has parallel lines rather than concentric circles. The Transitional is an early pen too.

[DrCodfish]

Thanks for the info.

[ac12]

And there are both long and short transitionals.

Much to my upset, since that adds 6 more pens that I have to try to collect.

[DrCodfish]

And there are both long and short transitionals.

Much to my upset, since that adds 6 more pens that I have to try to collect.

 

Oh the burdens we bare.

 

So I have done a little reading around the web on the history of the lowly Esterbrook. There is reference to 'transitionals' throughout but no real definition of the transition. It seems that transitionals refers to minor style changes but no effort to solve a prominent problem or giant leap forward in design. Interesting that such a simple, economical pen stuck to it's basics throughout and didn't make a wholesale move to a 'modern' design or technology, in the race to be the 'next big thing'. Reminds me of Pelikan in some ways; always incorporating their original design feature9s0 in their base model offerings.

 

let me ask you this: Does it seem ironic that this manufacturer with it's emphasis on economy, uniformity, and simplicity would go on to offer umpty-zillion different nibs which fit in most of it's very simple and uniform pens? Sort of Like Henry Ford offering 85 different steering wheel styles for the model A.

 

Anyway it is a learning experience for me and I have a new found appreciation for the most overlooked pen in pendom. All this because I just took possession of my THIRD(!) Estie last night, a Red 'J' with another 2284 nib. And like the other two, a reliable, functional, mildly pretty and pleasurable writer. Now I want a green, blue, and possibly a black 'Js' to fill out this row in the pen drawer. Do I dare venture into the more upscale 9XXX nibs? (silly question to ask on an Estie forum I know)

 

Not a full fledged member of the tribe yet, but liking the experience so far.

[gweimer1]

I don't know all the nibs yet, but I have found the 9668 to be most comfortable I've tried. I also like the 9460 nib. If you have only tried the 2xxx nibs, you should notice an immediate difference. Of the 2xxx nibs I've tried, I find the 2668 pretty nice, but found the 2556 to be a little like tearing paper with the way that I write.

[ac12]

Doc

As I understand it, Esterbrook sold it as find the perfect nib you like first, then match it to a pen you like.

I don't know the logistics of selling the Esties, but that is a lot more personal than, a Parker 21 in M only, and only in black or dark blue.

And I would bite.

[Hobiwan]

 

Oh the burdens we bare.

 

So I have done a little reading around the web on the history of the lowly Esterbrook. There is reference to 'transitionals' throughout but no real definition of the transition. It seems that transitionals refers to minor style changes but no effort to solve a prominent problem or giant leap forward in design. Interesting that such a simple, economical pen stuck to it's basics throughout and didn't make a wholesale move to a 'modern' design or technology, in the race to be the 'next big thing'. Reminds me of Pelikan in some ways; always incorporating their original design feature9s0 in their base model offerings.

 

let me ask you this: Does it seem ironic that this manufacturer with it's emphasis on economy, uniformity, and simplicity would go on to offer umpty-zillion different nibs which fit in most of it's very simple and uniform pens? Sort of Like Henry Ford offering 85 different steering wheel styles for the model A.

 

Do I dare venture into the more upscale 9XXX nibs? (silly question to ask on an Estie forum I know)

 

Not a full fledged member of the tribe yet, but liking the experience so far.

 

The term "transitional" generally refers to pens made around 1945 - 47 at and/or near the end of WWII. The company had already begun streamlining the cap, with the '41 Visumaster, and the '43-'44 Twist filler. So, with the lifting of war material restrictions, it began pumping pens out again with steel hardware (cap bands, levers, clips). They probably hadn't re-tooled the machinery to do the barrels yet, but they had the caps, and the barrel machinery from the DollarPen days. (Sheaffer did the same thing earlier, when transitioning from the old "deco-style" flat barrel and cap, to a model that has the new "balance" cap, mounted on a flat barrel. A year or so later, they streamlined the end of the barrel.)

 

It's likely that they also had the urgent need to "get something, anything out there" to fill the demand in a post-war market. Judging from the precious few that have survived, the Twisty didn't do well during the war. It was an expensive, impractical "gadget-filler", a biotch to make, and very complex or impossible to maintain. It just wasn't "Esterbrook". So they decided on "twist-filler cap mounted on flat barrel, all other features back to standard lever-fill", and cranked them out.

 

I used to think trannies were a bit rare, but judging from the many that have showed up, the company turned out a boatload.

 

The screw-in Renew Point and "choose the point for the way YOU write" may be ironic, but you have to admit, quite the genius. In fact, I say it was the ultimate idea for economy, uniformity, simplicity AND versatility, eh? They already were making nibs of all types since the inception, and merely had to "transition" them over to work on fountain pens. And what better "hook" to immediately position the Company as a major player in the fountain pen market that was dominated by the "Big 4" penmakers ... DURING the Great Depression ... for only a buck, and replace your point for 25 cents. Ya gotta love that "in your face, Great Depression" attitude. I do.

 

And YES, I recommend trying out a 9284 or 9314-M or -B if you can get hold of one without blowing the rent money. If you don't like it, you can always sell it back and recover at least some or most of what you paid for it.

[ScienceChick]

 

let me ask you this: Does it seem ironic that this manufacturer with it's emphasis on economy, uniformity, and simplicity would go on to offer umpty-zillion different nibs which fit in most of it's very simple and uniform pens? Sort of Like Henry Ford offering 85 different steering wheel styles for the model A.

 

 

No, no, no - that's the brilliance of Esterbrooks! Many pens in one. The variety of nibs is my favorite thing about them. The fact that they're mighty pretty is the icing on the cake.

 

My unlearned opinion: if there's a nib size/style you want and you can get it in a 9XXX, get it. Caveat: my opinion is based on very, very limited experience and the advice of the Sages here.

[kidde]

let me ask you this: Does it seem ironic that this manufacturer with it's emphasis on economy, uniformity, and simplicity would go on to offer umpty-zillion different nibs which fit in most of it's very simple and uniform pens? Sort of Like Henry Ford offering 85 different steering wheel styles for the model A.

Exaggeration not withstanding, ReNew points were made in every popular style, twice. Once with the 1XXX & 2XXX and then with the 9XXX. Before this you bought a pen and hoped they had a nib you liked in it. Estie made it possible to put the style of nib you like into any Esterbrook pen. A more apt analogy would be buying a 1957 Chevy coupe and getting it with which engine you liked, from 6 to 3 versions of V8. You know, having your cake and eat it too.

 

Paul

[JonSzanto]

A brilliant strategy.

 

http://dirck.delint.ca/beta/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/esterchart.jpg

 

And let's stop referring to these pens as "lowly" and "overlooked". That's as under-educated as it is insulting.

 

BTW, someone mention the Transitionals as having the 3-ribbed top jewel - while this is true, they weren't all made that way, and there are also many Transitionals with the standard, smooth black plastic jewel.

Edited September 21, 2014 by JonSzanto

[DrCodfish]

Sorry, didn't mean to stir the pot or insult. Great pens, and love the interchangeable nibs, I just meant to offer a few observations based on some recent purchases, discussion with others off line, and some reading about Esterbrook which I have been doing to recently to 'educate' myself.

 

Your comment Hobiwan really turned the light bulb on for me:

 

"but you have to admit, quite the genius. In fact, I say it was the ultimate idea for "economy, uniformity, simplicity AND versatility, eh?

 

I will watch for those 9284, and 9314 series nibs, thanks for the tip.

 

Now, it is a sunny day and I need to get outside and do some fall maintenance in my Koi pond, the pace where I spend all the money I save buying Esterbrooks instead of Meistestucks.

[Chrissy]

I have what I believe to be an LJ and now I have received what I believe to be a J. Is the SJ a shorter version of the J? This isn't made clear on the Esterbrook web-site.

[DrCodfish]

Chrissy;

 

This helped me learn a lot:

 

http://www.richardspens.com/ Type Esterbrook in the More Search Options box.

Edited September 21, 2014 by DrCodfish

[JonSzanto]

Sorry, didn't mean to stir the pot or insult.

 

I probably typed a bit hastily in response, sorry. You mention Richard's site, and I saw someone link to a particular page, but if you haven't been to Brian Anderson's big Esterbrook site, you really should. Boatloads of information,

 

Also, as mentioned: those 2314- or 9314-M nibs are insanely nice. Like all of their nibs, there is a bit of variation in them, but I've got a 2314-M nib in a desk pen that has been constantly inked for 5 years, always at the ready to write. Great nib. I also have a fondness for the 2442, which is very much like a narrow stub, and also has a distinct look to it. Worth seeking out.

 

My latest project is creating Frankenpens of colorful Wearever bodies with Esterbrook sections. I got a little tired of the look of the Esties, all being somewhat similar, and this allows me to use the nibs with a more colorful (and slightly larger) body.