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Why Do Pen Companies Make Ballpoint Versions Of Their Fountain Pens?


aussielondon

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I know that Parker makes a ballpoint version of their Vector fountain pen, and I was wondering why they would bother to do so, considering that anyone looking for a decent pen would want a fountain pen surely?

 

I mean, who could want an expensive ballpoint pen, as since they have the same operation as a Bic Cristal, then why would someone pay alot of money for a fancy ballpoint pen?

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Isn't it the same as being able to buy a cheapie fountain pen? Some people want one of a nicer quality but just don't like FPs (blasphemy I know ;))

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Well, because it's a writing instrument, and pen companies make writing instruments.

 

Besides, the ballpoints and rollerballs are the more common type of pens out there today. Understandably they would want to appeal to a bigger market (mass market)

 

Some people aren't used to the idea of a FP maybe? And so, will spend money on a high quality ballpoint.

 

And yes, it forms part of the collection of FP, rollerball, ballpoint and pencil.

 

Essentially, my guess is that it probably doesn't take too much resources to make a ballpoint version if one already has the FP version, just some slight tweaks. So why don't they make the ballpoint, if they're looking to maximise profits (and increase market share)?

 

 

~Epic

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A sincere man am I
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And I want before I die
My soul's verses to bestow.
 
All those moments will be lost in time.
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A matching set.

Some people like to use matching pencil, ball point, and fountain pen.

San Francisco Pen Show - August 28-30, 2020 - Redwood City, California

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Well, because it's a writing instrument, and pen companies make writing instruments.

 

Besides, the ballpoints and rollerballs are the more common type of pens out there today. Understandably they would want to appeal to a bigger market (mass market)

 

Some people aren't used to the idea of a FP maybe? And so, will spend money on a high quality ballpoint.

 

And yes, it forms part of the collection of FP, rollerball, ballpoint and pencil.

 

Essentially, my guess is that it probably doesn't take too much resources to make a ballpoint version if one already has the FP version, just some slight tweaks. So why don't they make the ballpoint, if they're looking to maximise profits (and increase market share)?

 

 

~Epic

lol, the first line of this made me properly laugh, you got my sense of humor :D

 

As for higher quality ballpoints... surely a Bic Cristal is about the standard and it would be hard to make a ballpoint with a better nib considering that ballpoints writing quality doesn't really depend on the nib as much as it's a ball, wheras a fountain pen nib needs to be of good quality and aligned properly and has more technical expertise needed for manufacturing so more chance for making a poor quality one if made cheaply? etc (similar to how high end Quartz watches and a cheap Casio are about the same really as quartz movement is quartz movement).

Edited by aussielondon
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Some people just like a nice looking pen, and are willing to pay extra for it, but are put off by fountain pens. I've talked with people whose minds seem to be closed against fountain pens; they're old, impractical technology and that's that! Yet if I take out my Parker Jotter ballpoint, or even my Fisher Space Pen, they'll say "ooh, nice pen". On a higher scale, somebody might want the prestige of carrying a Montblanc, but still have the same anti-FP bias.

"So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable creature, since it enables one to find or make a reason for everything one has a mind to do."

 

- Benjamin Franklin

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Because for many people, ballpoints are more practical and more universally lendable. Fountain pens are often not superior.

As for higher quality ballpoints... surely a Bic Cristal is about the standard and it would be hard to make a ballpoint with a better nib considering that ballpoints writing quality doesn't really depend on the nib as much as it's a ball, wheras a fountain pen nib needs to be of good quality and aligned properly and has more technical expertise needed for manufacturing so more chance for making a poor quality one if made cheaply? etc (similar to how high end Quartz watches and a cheap Casio are about the same really as quartz movement is quartz movement).

You are making some pretty big assumptions. Platinum Preppy and Uniball Vision Elite both have a more advanced collector/feed setup than many expensive pens. Many nibs are flawed out of the box and some are really bad.

 

By the way, where do you get your qualifications in ballpoint design? Most advertised tech and the patents I've seen deal with ink flow regulation, ink viscosity, and design of the ball housing, rather than the ball itself.

Edited by XiaoMG

Robert.

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I'd love to see some sales numbers....I wonder how many ballpoints MB sells compared to fountain pens....I'm guessing it's higher than any of us would guess. The general populace don't consider fountain pens practical so most people who want a nice pen are likely thinking a ballpoint or roller ball. Our view is skewed by our involvement in this small little world of fountain pens where they seem so normal. I work in an office with probably 500-600 people....I've yet to see another fountain pen.

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Some people just like a nice looking pen, and are willing to pay extra for it, but are put off by fountain pens. I've talked with people whose minds seem to be closed against fountain pens; they're old, impractical technology and that's that! Yet if I take out my Parker Jotter ballpoint, or even my Fisher Space Pen, they'll say "ooh, nice pen". On a higher scale, somebody might want the prestige of carrying a Montblanc, but still have the same anti-FP bias.

See I don't get that, as it's like the same as wanting to get a Quartz Omega or Ro-lex watch (in fact Ro-lex refuse to make Quartz watches).

If you are going to go upmarket then why not go for the prestige movement or workings (such as a fountain pen) as it increases the prestige.

 

I think if you want a ballpoint then just use a Bic as they are the inventors of the ballpoint and as such as the experts of it.

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lol, the first line of this made me properly laugh, you got my sense of humor :D

 

As for higher quality ballpoints... surely a Bic Cristal is about the standard and it would be hard to make a ballpoint with a better nib considering that ballpoints writing quality doesn't really depend on the nib as much as it's a ball, wheras a fountain pen nib needs to be of good quality and aligned properly and has more technical expertise needed for manufacturing so more chance for making a poor quality one if made cheaply? etc (similar to how high end Quartz watches and a cheap Casio are about the same really as quartz movement is quartz movement).

 

Actually ... I would imagine that there is a lot more precision to manufacturing a ballpoint assembly (and the ink formulation), no matter how deceptively simple the idea looks. There is a reason that you can practically (if you are so inclined) make ink at home, and commercially manufactured steel nibs predate ballpoints by a good 100 years.

 

And it goes both ways. You can have a perfect writing instrument for cheap (steel nibs and ballpoint refills) as far as flow and smoothness goes and only the sky is the limit on how much you want to spend on ergonomics and aesthetics.

 

-k

Edited by katerchen
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lol, the first line of this made me properly laugh, you got my sense of humor :D

 

As for higher quality ballpoints... surely a Bic Cristal is about the standard and it would be hard to make a ballpoint with a better nib considering that ballpoints writing quality doesn't really depend on the nib as much as it's a ball, wheras a fountain pen nib needs to be of good quality and aligned properly and has more technical expertise needed for manufacturing so more chance for making a poor quality one if made cheaply? etc (similar to how high end Quartz watches and a cheap Casio are about the same really as quartz movement is quartz movement).

 

Why, thank you :lol:

 

Better quality in terms of the build and aesthetics, I would say. The Bic Crystal doesn't look as nice and probably is more brittle than the Parker Vector ballpoint.

 

FP users are after all, still a minority. Luckily we do have cheap FPs. And I would have to disagree with the statement that a cheap FP is a poor one. Just look at the school pens kids in Germany and some other places had (and still have) to use today. They're cheap but they are good! I like my Herlitz Tornado Classic ;)

 

(Here's a picture of it: http://www.peytonstreetpens.com/herlitz-tornado-fountain-pens.html)

 

 

~Epic

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1348/557449480_2f02cc3cbb_m.jpg http://null.aleturo.com/Dumatborlon/Badges/5EH4/letter.png
 
A sincere man am I
From the land where palm trees grow,
And I want before I die
My soul's verses to bestow.
 
All those moments will be lost in time.
Like tears in rain.
Time to die.

 

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See I don't get that, as it's like the same as wanting to get a Quartz Omega or Ro-lex watch (in fact Ro-lex refuse to make Quartz watches).

If you are going to go upmarket then why not go for the prestige movement or workings (such as a fountain pen) as it increases the prestige.

 

I think if you want a ballpoint then just use a Bic as they are the inventors of the ballpoint and as such as the experts of it.

Rol-x did make quartz watches and Patek Philippe still does.

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Why, thank you :lol:

 

Better quality in terms of the build and aesthetics, I would say. The Bic Crystal doesn't look as nice and probably is more brittle than the Parker Vector ballpoint.

 

FP users are after all, still a minority. Luckily we do have cheap FPs. And I would have to disagree with the statement that a cheap FP is a poor one. Just look at the school pens kids in Germany and some other places had (and still have) to use today. They're cheap but they are good! I like my Herlitz Tornado Classic ;)

 

(Here's a picture of it: http://www.peytonstreetpens.com/herlitz-tornado-fountain-pens.html)

 

 

~Epic

My pleasure :D I didn't know that pen manufactures made pens :P

 

But yes, the hexagonal bic is probably the worse design for a pen barrel ever.

I actually like gel pens, but ballpoints oh my god!

With a gel pen, even the cheap ones you can feel the ink slide out of the pen smooth and flow very well, but with even expensive ballpoints it's the same stuff.

Also although bics hexagonal barrel isn't the best, it's nib has been refined over time using proper metals for the job, so I doubt that it can be improved upon as they make more pens than anyone, so they must be getting design well organised on the ballpoint.

 

Bic could do with making a stainless steel round barrel model though and just allow one to buy the ink tubes with nibs to replace when they run out, and if they design the interior to fit the existing shape of their ballpoint nibs then it wouldn't even need any R&D.

But I digress.

 

The pic didn't work but it could be my laptop.

Rol-x did make quartz watches and Patek Philippe still does.

I didn't know this, but they discontinued it as they probably realised it wasn't what their customers wanted.

To me MontBlanc should only offer a fountain pen model as it is on the same high level as Ro-lex is prestige-wise.

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why they would bother to do so, considering that anyone looking for a decent pen would want a fountain pen surely?

 

I bet, right now there's someone out there asking the question why a company makes fountain pens, because anyone looking for a decent pen would want a ballpoint surely...

 

My guess: it just cranks up the market share with limited additional efforts

Greetings,

Michael

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The other thing to think about is that ballpoints benefits are that they work better in harsher environments like say in the stockroom or warehouses to put behind the ear when marking stock sheets etc, and can work in colder environments etc etc, and this is not exactly where you would want a fancy pen.

 

The nib of a fountain pen looks stylish and the nib of a ballpoint.... well... do I really need to say it?

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But yes, the hexagonal bic is probably the worse design for a pen barrel ever.

...

Also although bics hexagonal barrel isn't the best,...

 

Bic could do with making a stainless steel round barrel model though and just allow one to buy the ink tubes with nibs to replace when they run out, and if they design the interior to fit the existing shape of their ballpoint nibs then it wouldn't even need any R&D.

But I digress.

 

 

The Bic with flat sides mimic the standard wood pencils.

And unlike a round pen (or pencil), the multiple flat sides won't let it roll off the table/desk.

So it is also a practical design.

San Francisco Pen Show - August 28-30, 2020 - Redwood City, California

www.SFPenShow.com

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I know that Parker makes a ballpoint version of their Vector fountain pen, and I was wondering why they would bother to do so, considering that anyone looking for a decent pen would want a fountain pen surely?

 

I mean, who could want an expensive ballpoint pen, as since they have the same operation as a Bic Cristal, then why would someone pay alot of money for a fancy ballpoint pen?

 

Which came first the ballpoint or the fountain pen?

 

I think most companies sell more ballpoints that fountain pens.

My Collection: Montblanc Writers Edition: Hemingway, Christie, Wilde, Voltaire, Dumas, Dostoevsky, Poe, Proust, Schiller, Dickens, Fitzgerald (set), Verne, Kafka, Cervantes, Woolf, Faulkner, Shaw, Mann, Twain, Collodi, Swift, Balzac, Defoe, Tolstoy, Shakespeare, Saint-Exupery, Homer & Kipling. Montblanc Einstein (3,000) FP. Montblanc Heritage 1912 Resin FP. Montblanc Starwalker Resin: FP/BP/MP. Montblanc Traveller FP.

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These companies want to appeal to a wider audience. Let's face it, the fountain pen world is relatively niche, and the average BIC-user who wants to upgrade to a higher end writing experience might just want the classic style of a fountain pen with the ballpoint experience that they are more used to.

 

I would never buy those ballpoint versions, but I can understand why someone else might. :)

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