Vintage Stuff (Pens And Inks)

[Icywolfe]

Where are the people getting all the extremely old stuff from? Because I'm thinking of after a certain time less and less vintage stuff are available. But what keeps all of these in circulation? Now I'm wondering maybe 40 years later where will all the current vintage pens be?

 

For ink it will be far worse as you use ink.

[Randal6393]

Estate sales, old warehouses, lost shipments that turn up, etc. Yes, vintage pens have increased in cost as have vintage inks. So what? I use mostly modern pens and reject the use of a pen that is vintage -- usually, they are frail and finicky, at least in my experience. But, modern pens and inks -- what a variety to choose from! From the Pilot Plumix to Montblanc 149's, from inexpensive celluloid to outrageous resin. Inks that have formulaes (almost literally) centuries old to inks that are at the leading edge of today's chemistry. Use vintage? I find it much more rewarding to use modern-day pens. At a fraction of the cost of the older stuff.

 

Enjoy,

[Icywolfe]

Well some are in the search for ultimate flex pen.

 

And there are inks like Peacock Blue that is the perfect light blue that nobody makes.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Icywolfe

[KBeezie]

Currently for me, most of it has been online from either people who collect them, restore them, or are selling used. I've only found one vintage pen at a flea market, otherwise they don't really show up around here unless you want to hit up a few estate sales. (least for my area anyways).

 

Most people put anything they think of value onto ebay and such in my area.

[inkstainedruth]

I've gotten most of my vintage pens (and some of the vintage ink) on Ebay. But on occasion I have found both pens and inks at antiques malls -- *all* of my Sheaffer Snorkels, and the Parker 45 and the 50s-era Parkette, and a couple of Esties (black SJ/1555 nib and blue J/9556 (IIRC).

The first vintage ink I got was a probably 3/4 full bottle of what turned out to be Quink brown (1940s era style bottle, but no label, so I don't know if it's "washable" or not. And just a couple of months ago I found a 3/3 full pint bottle of Skrip Peacock Blue at a place about an hour and half north and east of where I live: same weekend where I found the Parkette, just -- as it happens -- I found the bottle of Quink Brown the same day I got the 45, although (in both cases) I was a bit far afield from home.

Around here (Pittsburgh area) the pickings are generally pretty slim -- mostly Wearevers, and Sheaffer school pens, with the occasional Estie or Waterman; but I have run across a couple of Vacumatics recently (in one case, the nib was pretty much a goner, and the other, just a couple of weeks ago, it was a Golden Pearl Vac Maxima -- I think -- but the dealer was asking a bit more than I had on me, cash-wise. Plus the pen seemed a bit overlarge for my hand

Went out to a antiques/collectibles fair about an hour east of here and a few dealers had pens, but when the best of the bunch is a slate blue Estie J with a 2668 nib.... ZZZZ (sorry, been there done that, don't need yet another 2668 nib...). Oh yeah, a few brands I'm not familiar with, like Windsor, and the usual Sheaffer school pen and a few Wearevers.... Sigh.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Beechwood]

A very smart person, who now posts elsewhere, made the salient comment that there is a point where all the pens return to the great pen pond for others to pick from. I must have had 500 pens plus in my collecting hands over the years, now have 250 maybe and ther eis bound to come a point when my vintage pens, inks and inkwells and even unusued classic notepads, go on to another collector.

[Brian K]

Luck can be a big help. Sometimes you'll find a gem on Fleabay that, for some unknown reason, has gone largely unnoticed by the cognoscenti so there's little competition and you get it for a song.

 

Estate sales can be good also. Check sale listings for pens and take a chance. My dad and stepmother have a lot of estate sale connections and they're always on the lookout for pens for me (I'm 57, but you know how parents are). Dad's on a tight budget so he looks for bargains. Some of his finds include a couple of snorkels and a Moore Maniflex but the best two are an early/mid 70s P45 with a 14kt nib made in England and a P51 vac demonstrator from 1948. The Vac needs restoration but it"s in great shape overall and he only paid $7.50 for it!

 

Luck and patience are great partners in the search for vintage.

[Brian K]

Oops...duplicate post

Edited September 15, 2014 by Brian K

[Lou Erickson]

Estate sales, old warehouses, lost shipments that turn up, etc. Yes, vintage pens have increased in cost as have vintage inks. So what? I use mostly modern pens and reject the use of a pen that is vintage -- usually, they are frail and finicky, at least in my experience. But, modern pens and inks -- what a variety to choose from! From the Pilot Plumix to Montblanc 149's, from inexpensive celluloid to outrageous resin. Inks that have formulaes (almost literally) centuries old to inks that are at the leading edge of today's chemistry. Use vintage? I find it much more rewarding to use modern-day pens. At a fraction of the cost of the older stuff.

 

Enjoy,

 

I must respectfully offer an alternative viewpoint to parts of Randall's statement.

 

I have never found pens at estate sales, flea markets, etc. I have bought all my vintage pens from restorers, restored and ready to write. The cost may be higher than a miraculous auction site find, but I am confident that there is no restoration for me to do. While I'm sure I could learn to restore pens - it doesn't look too hard, and has a low cost to try, if you like - my life is full of many things, and I choose to spend what time I have for pens using them instead of fixing them. This means I'm willing to pay restorers - mostly local folks, but that's because I'm lucky enough to live in a big city - a little more. It also means I usually have a guarantee, and no problems with the pen.

 

I have also not found most of the vintage pens to be any more fragile or flaky than new pens. Some may be - this is part of the pen being decades old - but I haven't run into them. I have Snorkels, 51's, Esterbrooks, and Sheaffer Imperials all of which are reliable, sturdy writers. I carry them to work in my shirt pocket without any hesitation, and have yet to have any break or leak.

 

As to cost... none of my restored pens have been over $200. Considering the Namikis, the Montblancs, and even some of the Pelikan (M600 or above!) and Pilot (Custom 74 and above) start there and go up, I don't think it's really fair to say "vintage is expensive". You can make vintage expensive... but you can make new pens expensive, too.

 

My most expensive pen is a Kullock Parker 51, with a custom-made pearlescent acrylic body. It was $200, and I think it beautiful. The other 51's were about half that. The Esterbrooks were $40ish. The NOS Imperials - great pens! - were $42. NOS Parker Falcon 50: $50. A restored Pelikan 140: $140, and a wonderful writer.

 

Vintage does not have to be expensive.

 

These are not rare, perfect, amazing, utterly unobtanium pens. These are writers, which work and work well.

 

Not to say new stuff is bad - I have Pilot Metropolitans, a Pelikan 205, a Lamy Vista, a Waterman Carene, and a Lamy 2000 which are all new and lovely pens. But you hear horror stories of people struggling to get these same new pens to write, just like you do the vintage ones.

 

Don't be afraid of vintage. Vintage is fun.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Lou Erickson

[Brian K]

Inexpensive is relative, of course. I could afford your $200 pen and the $100 for my Micarta (purchased on impulse in a moment of weakness ) is probably more than I could rationally afford.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not bothered by the fact that a lot of (most of?) the members here have larger pen budgets than me. I'm happy for anyone who can buy any pen he/she wants (it means a lot of great pens in loving hands), but expensive and inexpensive are found all over the map.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I once wondered about all the NOS that was around 6 years ago.

Even now. But it's out there.

 

Folks die, and kids don't want that old fashioned stuff, off to Ebay. Folks find retirement pinching, and sell off. Others find they have 100 pens and only need the basic 45 nibs.

 

I only have one 'teen's pen...It's hard rubber and stable. New Sac. Waterman 52...could be '20's. 1912 Sheaffer came in with the lever...Waterman got around that patent.

I have a some 3 of '30's piston pens. One needs a new cork....the other will be on the end of the line, when I start re-corking. The 100n, was nearly NOS....nearly mint. It had been inked once. You could tell by the fact the cork was only a little inked.

I keep that and the other '30's corked pen, wet. Filled with water when not filled with ink.

I've a couple of WW2 German pens, with the then less durable plastic than what came in @ 1955.

 

Rubber sacs don't last as long as they once did...no longer your basic 30 or so years. More than likely from modern supersaturated inks.

So one learns how to re-sac or sends it off.

 

Yes there are pens that fall apart. Those that were going to more than likely have.

One should learn which they are.

'30's Vac, '40's P-51, Touchdown, '50's Snorkels.....or Esterbrooks from the '30-60's are good to go.

 

The first thing, like with any pen is what do you want the nib to do?

Real flex...20-30's Waterman...or many others.

'30's nail....well have a '38 Vac with a '36 Canadian factory nail BB stub.

Have an Australian with a BB stub Snorkel 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex.

Most Snorkels are regular flex or nails.

Parker's were often nails in the '40-50 and later or semi-nail....P-45, P-75.

Yet I have an English Parker Jr. Dufold in semi-flex, in Parker and Snorkel had to compete with Swan Pens when they had factories in England.

 

It's real easy to make a nail into a stub....it's more expensive to make a semi-flex or 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex like a '30-55 Swan, or the 50-65 German Osmia, MB, Pelikan, Kaweco, Sonnecken or the (real) Original Reform.

The Germans stayed with nibs with some flex longer than the US pens.

 

Cartridge pens....are modern no matter how old they are, the only 'modern' pen with falling apart problems is the Parker 21 I think.

 

The advantage to Vintage; most were used all day long, back when pens had guts and had to balance....so were standard or medium-large, with better nibs than modern.

 

No a Large pen like most companies only make to day is not a light, nimble and able to use all day pen....It's more a display pen....IMO...they lack balance.

After '97 Pelikan's nib became second class.

 

 

Modern pens after '97...I have three....that enough....got 50 or so semi-vintage and vintage pens.....well, that's almost enough.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Bo Bo Olson

[KBeezie]

Inexpensive is relative, of course. I could afford your $200 pen and the $100 for my Micarta (purchased on impulse in a moment of weakness ) is probably more than I could rationally afford.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not bothered by the fact that a lot of (most of?) the members here have larger pen budgets than me. I'm happy for anyone who can buy any pen he/she wants (it means a lot of great pens in loving hands), but expensive and inexpensive are found all over the map.

 

Comparatively most of my vintage pens have been cheaper than my modern ones. For the same price or cheaper than most of my modern pens I've gotten a unique piece of history with either an 14K or 18K nib gold nib (which I prefer most of the time for vintage as it will hold up longer to inks, especially now that most modern inks are more... gentle).

 

The trick of course is figuring out what you like, short of a new-old-stock, they all have a sort of... personality to them. Some people like the hunt, some don't. I just find it interesting that there seems to be a ton of more 'interesting' options for under $100 in vintage than there are in modern, and sometimes you can get *really* lucky with a find especially if you learn some basic repair and adjustment techniques (getting a nice lever filler with a gold nib for example can easily be fixed up and be an excellent performer).

[estie1948]

Most (not all) of the fountain pens I've come across in antique stores in the last few years have been too expensive (understanding "expensive" to be a relative term) for me. I have, however, made some remarkable finds in old junk stores and thrift stores in those boxes full of miscellaneous stuff that no one really wants to sort through and place on different shelves. I found a Sheaffer Balance lever filler not long ago in a plastic tub filled with pencils and crayons that was headed for the dumpster outside a Salvation Army store. Admittedly, that is not a common occurrence, but for me the hunt is part of the thrill.

 

-David.

[Bo Bo Olson]

If I had to buy new pens.....I'd stopped wasting money on pens and bought more single malt or age bourbon.

 

I got hooked by buying:

Old, used, cheap pens....ie vintage one time top of the line pens...for under TWSBI prices....at the start well under.

First the $20 pen, then the $25-30 (Pens that matched vintage Pelikan in all but name), and then every once in a while a $50-75...and few over that up to a real need pen of $100.

What are you going to get modern that's half nice for $100?

 

Might have to have a rubber sac or new cork put in, if the piston pen is real old...'30's....some no name companies to '55. Yep that is to be expected....

Pen repair is only a couple or three visits to Starbucks....and there you have a better nib, with some life, a pen with classic balance....and you did your waist line some good.

Pen repair might drive the price of the pen up by 1/3...but then you have something that was balanced for writing all day...not scribbling signatures, like the modern clunky Large pens.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Bo Bo Olson

[Icywolfe]

 

Pen repair might drive the price of the pen up by 1/3...but then you have something that was balanced for writing all day...not scribbling signatures, like the modern clunky Large pens.

Not all modern large pens are clunky or bulky for daily writing. My Justus95 is the largest pen in my collection. Bigger than the Jinhaos I have, but it's very well balanced. I would use it all the time but I have it loaded with Konpeki and I have about 15 ml of Konpeki left in my bottle. 28 USD per bottle is up there. And the pen price isn't cheap...

[bsenn]

As David said, the hunt is part of the thrill. If getting a pen was the goal, I could order a new pen or a restored pen. But I enjoy finding pens at flea markets, antique shops, or garage sales. Something for my wife and I to do together (she looks for compacts and paperweights while I look for pens). Even my kids join in (they are much better at spotting ink bottles than I).

 

Yes, sometimes the asking prices are outrageous, but many times you can bargain with a seller, and if not there's always another pen somewhere else. Yesterday at a flea market I got an uninked estie (still had nib size sticker) for $10 (did not even try to talk the seller down), and a no-nonsense and three Rapidographs for $6.

 

Getting the old pens pretty and working (sometimes just working) provides satisfaction, and once they're working most of them work great. With the exception of one vintage pen I have taken out of the house, I have never had a problem.

 

I expect old pens to he available in the wild for many years, and even as availability declines pen collections will be turning over as you and I get old (or need the money).

 

Oh, I babbled so long I forgot the original question... Antique shop last week, 1920 crescent filler $5 but missing the clip. Still a very usable pen

 

Brian

Edited September 15, 2014 by bsenn

[CraigR]

I started out many years ago with a couple of inherited vintage fountain pens. They were user grade to be sure and use them I did. Then the collecting bug bit me and I started to accumulate fountain pens. My shotgun approach to buying brought me both modern (new) pens as well as additional vintage models. After joining FPN, the repair my own pens bug bit and I started to buy pens that needed TLC and more. Over the years, I have bought and sold several hundred fountain pens, old and new. Currently, I have more vintage than new because I really like the older ones better than the newer ones.

 

It is easy to get caught up in the frenzy of collecting, especially if you have the financial ability to support the hobby. Many folks get into trouble with it too by using credit to collect. Like anything else, moderation and a plan help stay clear of pitfalls.

 

Where are all the vintage pens? It is my feeling that there are still plenty in the wild. We just have to be creative in looking. I have found many at garage/yard/estate sales just by asking. They were not on display because the owner did not have a sense of worth for them. I asked and the owners went into the house or barn and came back out with some real winners. I also tell everyone I see that I collect and that I am always looking for that great fountain pen that they just might own. I believe that people often just toss old pens into the trash. A fountain pen sitting in a desk drawer filled with solidified ink and crud just doesn't seem to have much worth to most people. So, we need to prime the supply pump by letting people know that there is a market for fountain pens and that we are buyers, users and repairers.

 

Same goes for the ink, paper and accessories.

 

Craig

[redbike]

My most recent vintage pen acquisition was a Parker 51 deb size from my mother in law's desk. She got the desk, and the pen, from her mother. Most of my other vintage pens have been eBay purchases, or through the Classified forum here. Very little at local flea markets or antique stores - mostly third tier pens for too much $. Haven't tried estate sales though.

[georges zaslavsky]

Vintage pens offer formidable reliability and value for money

[tonybelding]

It's been interesting to see the effect of estate sales + eBay. There's a cycle where people are given fountain pens as, often, graduation presents. They try the pen briefly, then stuff it in the back of a desk drawer. Fifty years later it turns up in an estate sale, and then on to eBay. Thus, pens that were popular 50 years ago tend to be plentiful and relatively cheap (and in great condition!) on eBay.

 

The Parker 51 and the Esterbrook J have had their fling before starting to dry up, and now it's Sheaffer Imperials that are coming out of the woodwork.