Interesting Dialog - Vintage Nib Sizes

August 31, 2014

I had an interesting personal message conversation today with a fountain pen collector friend. The topic was vintage nibs and the lack of size markings and how to tell what is what. I suggested using a nib/line graph or chart (many available on line) and actually compare the line written with your pen to the ones on the chart. Many vintage nibs have seen extensive use, especially those from the 20's, 30's and 40's when fountain pens were the main writing instrument. Over time, I believe that these nibs worn in from use and pressure placed on the nib point, often making a fine nib produce a line that is closer to medium. My friend was telling me about his disappointment with a pen he purchased online that was listed as a fine and wrote as a pretty solid medium. Add that some nibs from years ago had a degree of flex to them and the difficulty in accurately labeling the nib becomes even harder.

The solution that we agreed on was to request an actual writing sample before buying. Most pen can easily have their nibs dipped in ink, a written sample made and then scanned and posted or e-mailed. My friend does not have a scanner, so he takes a photo of the writing sample that he can provide.

Interesting topic, I think.

Craig

August 31, 2014

No matter when, there was size variation with in the standard.

Over in the pinned threads in the Sheaffer sub-section, Rod Zorn in his visit to Janeville before closing, found the slop/variance was so that a Fat F= exactly a Skinny M or a Fat M=a Skinny B.

Each company had it's very own standards.

It is true a nib may over the decades become wider through use. Your friend did not tell you, which companies M he compared it to, nor what era.

Nor did you mention what your friend considers an F nib. A Waterman fan with an F, would never in his wildest dreams consider a Parker F, an F.

I'd seen an old chart where Parker is wider than Sheaffer, is wider than Pelikan is wider than Waterman. I don't know if modern blobby Pelikan is now wider than Parker or Sheaffer or not, they never chime in when Pelikan is declared Fat......just the 'usual' suspects with out naming them..

Sheaffer made very skinny F's in the '50's and I've heard in the 70's also. (In the Chart they did not seem very narrow...in both Pelikan and Waterman were narrower. There for what era?

'50's-65 Pelikans seem to run 1/2 a size narrower than Modern. The F of the '50s by Sheaffer could well be Japanese narrow, they have the rep. That is defiantly, even with a 'narrow' old Pelikan's F would be no where's near as the F-EF Sheaffer.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Bo Bo Olson

August 31, 2014

Except for untipped nibs, I do not think the tip will wear significantly.

The ink line will depend on the ink, which can give you a false reading.

Pelikan will give you a narrower line than Waterman, and those inks I know.

I have no idea of what the other inks will do.

The other thing is some older nibs have a wider tolerance range.

I have a Parker 45 F nib that is wider than a M nib.

I have an Esterbrook M nib that writes like and Esterbrook F nib.

In these cases it isn't wear, but the size of the tipping that makes it different than what is expected from the marked size.

Finally, what is the definition of a M will differ based on what your standard pen is and the brand. Each company can have a completely different definition of nib sizes. Example a Lamy F is like my US Parker M nib. And a Pelikan XF is like my US Parker F nib. So your friends comment of an F nib writing like his M nib would be the same as my Lamy F compared to my US Parker M nib, same size tip and ink line.

A writing sample is better than nothing.

But a photo or a scan is difficult as you cannot judge the actual ink line width, without a reference of some sort.

Edited August 31, 2014 by ac12

August 31, 2014

Agreed that there are many variables between manufacturers, nib types, ink and paper - let alone the pressure and writing technique applied by user.

What we did decide was that descriptions such as fine, medium or broad are very subjective and don't mean much to someone trying to evaluate the pen. I believe a writing sample comes as close as possible for most people.

Craig