Fake Pens.

[Icywolfe]

Why are some pens more often faked than others? I have yet to see a Sailor, Platinum or Pilot fake. Yet Parker(?) and MB fakes are common.

 

Why I'm posting this? I was out just looking at pens on the internet and I saw cheap fake MB pen. I bought just to see good are the fake pens.* But on that site the few front pages were just MB fakes, then some Parkers. I Think I saw a Sheaffer fake. But Where are the Japanese fakes?

 

*It was 11 bucks. The Nib looks like a real nib from the pictures. And the Nib stamping seems crisp.

 

Are Japanese pens too hard to replicate?

[tinysnail]

It's the same reason why some designer brands' purses, say, are counterfeited while others' aren't. It has to do with the social status associated with a brand. Now, I haven't been into pens for long enough to say this definitively, but I think it's safe to say that MB has a lot more status as a luxury brand than the Japanese brands are. This is especially true when you consider that people outside of fountain pen enthusiast groups are able to recognize a MB and understand what it "means." So, there's a demand for the instant "status" you gain by owning one of these pens, hence the market for fakes.

[KBeezie]

Not everyone immediately associates a Pilot, Sailor, Platinum, Lamy, etc as a high end status symbol like that of Montblanc or Montegrappa, etc. Seems like people who know the brands get excited if they see a snowflake, not so much with with a Sailor.

 

Also seems like for it to be counterfeit worthy the price tag would have to be high enough to bother spending $100-200 making a knockoff that can convince some people, then selling it for 500-600 or more.

 

I imagine that if we were capable of seeing the search popularity, we'll see that the ones most commonly counterfeited are also the ones most commonly searched for that cost more than a couple hundred dollars.

 

For as long as people are fooled by them at such a great profit, the more they're going to keep doing it. Also there are plenty of stories of people managing to find a Montblanc for cheap, like a guy locally here claims to have gotten his MB 149 for $50 at an estate sale, so there's always that excitement at the *Chance* that someone is just selling a pen they're unfamiliar with.

 

PS: You ever notice how in the MB sub-forum, most of the topics seem to be like "Is this real?"

Edited August 30, 2014 by KBeezie

[PabloAU]

Market share.

 

A fake in a popular brand will be more likely to sell, even when known to be fake.

 

The same reason boobs are more often faked compared to earlobes. ;-)

Edited August 30, 2014 by PabloAU

[Icywolfe]

Not everyone immediately associates a Pilot, Sailor, Platinum, Lamy, etc as a high end status symbol like that of Montblanc or Montegrappa, etc. Seems like people who know the brands get excited if they see a snowflake, not so much with with a Sailor.

 

Also seems like for it to be counterfeit worthy the price tag would have to be high enough to bother spending $100-200 making a knockoff that can convince some people, then selling it for 500-600 or more.

 

I imagine that if we were capable of seeing the search popularity, we'll see that the ones most commonly counterfeited are also the ones most commonly searched for that cost more than a couple hundred dollars.

 

For as long as people are fooled by them at such a great profit, the more they're going to keep doing it. Also there are plenty of stories of people managing to find a Montblanc for cheap, like a guy locally here claims to have gotten his MB 149 for $50 at an estate sale, so there's always that excitement at the *Chance* that someone is just selling a pen they're unfamiliar with.

 

PS: You ever notice how in the MB sub-forum, most of the topics seem to be like "Is this real?"

Those Makie stuff I can see some picture and know I need to sell my body in both life times to get that. And I knew that when I knew nothing of the pain staking work of Maki-e art. I actually don't know what high end stuff Lamy makes.

 

My fake pen I bought just had the label of "Classic black gold clip pen" yup.... total messed up name. But on the pictures it had the name MontBlanc. A pretty good made nib. I'm sure I can fault this and get a few looks at me. The pen seems to be fool worth pen and you can mass order for about $0.80 dollars each! Oh gawd this sounds like a Visionnaire scam. But for good reason I'm not telling the site name to prevent people from having the idea of scamming. I can pm you the site if you want. (You seem nice enough.)

 

Isn't Pelikan famous too? I can't find a fake version of theirs.

 

I'm going to post there later on "It this fake" I want to see how good it was. On another forum that is a watch forum I frequent I see people asking more if their MB is real or fake.

 

Market share.

 

A fake in a popular brand will be more likely to sell, even when known to be fake.

 

The same reason boobs are more often faked compared to earlobes. ;-)

That example you used, even though it's true. How did you come up with it?

 

The popularity part isn't Pilot pretty popular from Japan?

Edited August 30, 2014 by Icywolfe

[lahlahlaw]

I'd rather not see fakes from any more than there already are.

[KBeezie]

Testing...

 

Well just lost the post I was going to type because I got hit with this...

 

Edited August 30, 2014 by KBeezie

[KBeezie]

It would appear that trying to say certain brand names as an 'example' is flagging me as a possible spammer. And I can't edit the above without hitting that purple screen again.

Edited August 30, 2014 by KBeezie

[Algester]

Those Makie stuff I can see some picture and know I need to sell my body in both life times to get that. And I knew that when I knew nothing of the pain staking work of Maki-e art. I actually don't know what high end stuff Lamy makes.

 

My fake pen I bought just had the label of "Classic black gold clip pen" yup.... total messed up name. But on the pictures it had the name MontBlanc. A pretty good made nib. I'm sure I can fault this and get a few looks at me. The pen seems to be fool worth pen and you can mass order for about $0.80 dollars each! Oh gawd this sounds like a Visionnaire scam. But for good reason I'm not telling the site name to prevent people from having the idea of scamming. I can pm you the site if you want. (You seem nice enough.)

 

Isn't Pelikan famous too? I can't find a fake version of theirs.

 

I'm going to post there later on "It this fake" I want to see how good it was. On another forum that is a watch forum I frequent I see people asking more if their MB is real or fake.

 

That example you used, even though it's true. How did you come up with it?

 

The popularity part isn't Pilot pretty popular from Japan?

because Pilot, Sailor and Platinum apparently has a huge market because of their prices... seriously only platinum and Pilot make gold nib pens at what 50 and 70USD then you have the student pens pretty much stationary goods in japan is a very SERIOUS BUSINESS which is why pretty much every known innovation apparently comes now from Japan for stationary goods Uniball and Ohto have something in common in their mechanical pencils so why bootleg when you can innovate

so basically put only Japan has the capacity to make a stationary nut go ohhh and ahhh and feel like a kid in a candy store

Edited August 30, 2014 by Algester

[amk]

I think tinysnail has hit the nail on the head - MB is faked because it's the pen that says "I'm a big cheese" to people outside the fountain pen hobby. It's the pen that gets given to investment bankers when they sign deals. So the appearance of an MB and the distinctive mark of the birdsplat is what counts. It's a bit like Louis Vuitton luggage - that gets faked because of the unmistakable monogram; people are looking for that clear and simple "I've arrived" message without paying the price tag.

 

Fakes of course aren't the same as knockoffs, but again with near-copies like Jinhao you can see the MB Meisterstuck is responsible for a very large following - as far as I know no one has come up with a Pelikan knockoff. The Parker Duofold on the other hand has Jinhao Century and Kaigelu 316 as close kin, and I've been surprised to find a Delta Dolce Vita influence on several Chinese pens (I think Fuliwen orange celluloid? I might be wrong).

 

It would actually be quite interesting to try to put together a list of Chinese pens and their 'inspirations'.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Some folks know dammed well they are buying fake...like a Bolex Watch...with an R.

Idiot Prove.

Poorer Idiots buy it to prove to other poor idiots, they are someone.

Hey it writes and everything; just put a cartridge in it. Only got to wind & set the watch once a day. Can't take the handbag out in the rain...or it smells like goat.

Beats buying the real thing over in the Used Status Shop....but the pawn shops are rather expensive.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Bo Bo Olson

[owend]

Then there are the people who buy, knowing fully that it's a fake and not worried about others finding out.

 

I got a Kaigelu 356, not as good as a Sonnet (nib stiffer, won't post stably) but at 10% of the price it's much better value-for-money. I wonder how many "fake" Montblancs are bought knowingly, because they are almost the feel and writing experience but for a fraction of the cost?

 

Which leads to: are premium-name pens actually worth their price-tag (again looking at you, Montblanc)?

[MBFan]

Which leads to: are premium-name pens actually worth their price-tag (again looking at you, Montblanc)?

I would say no. Most of the time you're paying your share for the prestige that the company has invested in, to establish its brand. Brands like MB (in my opinion) sell an idea, or a perception. The pens (such as MBs) are mere artefacts/ manifestations of that idea; they're vehicles for that perception.

 

I own a 146 (I have owned then sold a 142G, 145, 146, 149) and while it's a good pen, i wouldn't say it's great, and I wouldn't choose it over a Parker 51.

 

All that being said, I own a Pelikan M800 and I can understand to some extent the price (although I bought used at a good price). In the end, if you think it's worth it, then almost any price can be justified.

[owend]

MBFan says "In the end, if you think it's worth it, then almost any price can be justified."

 

Really, this is the best answer to any question concerning value. It dosn't matter what anyone else thinks, if YOU think you got good value for your £, $, € or whatever, then you did!

 

And the marketers know that, which is why £10 of gold can add £100 to the price, eg Pelikan 200 and 400, and why there are high-priced pens marketed as Porsche, Cartier etc.

[ParkersAndPaper]

MBFan says "In the end, if you think it's worth it, then almost any price can be justified."

 

 

I wouldn't survive life as a MB collector. I still can't justify $150 for a nice Parker 75.

[Icywolfe]

It would appear that trying to say certain brand names as an 'example' is flagging me as a possible spammer. And I can't edit the above without hitting that purple screen again.

I'm surprised you were the unlucky one.

 

I think tinysnail has hit the nail on the head - MB is faked because it's the pen that says "I'm a big cheese" to people outside the fountain pen hobby. It's the pen that gets given to investment bankers when they sign deals. So the appearance of an MB and the distinctive mark of the birdsplat is what counts. It's a bit like Louis Vuitton luggage - that gets faked because of the unmistakable monogram; people are looking for that clear and simple "I've arrived" message without paying the price tag.

 

Fakes of course aren't the same as knockoffs, but again with near-copies like Jinhao you can see the MB Meisterstuck is responsible for a very large following - as far as I know no one has come up with a Pelikan knockoff. The Parker Duofold on the other hand has Jinhao Century and Kaigelu 316 as close kin, and I've been surprised to find a Delta Dolce Vita influence on several Chinese pens (I think Fuliwen orange celluloid? I might be wrong).

 

It would actually be quite interesting to try to put together a list of Chinese pens and their 'inspirations'.

Well I never knew MB until I joined FPN.

 

Well the idea of the Black and Gold rings design tends to be found on many pens now. Even Pilot.

 

That thing I'm surprised no Pelikan.

 

Then there are the people who buy, knowing fully that it's a fake and not worried about others finding out.

 

I got a Kaigelu 356, not as good as a Sonnet (nib stiffer, won't post stably) but at 10% of the price it's much better value-for-money. I wonder how many "fake" Montblancs are bought knowingly, because they are almost the feel and writing experience but for a fraction of the cost?

 

Which leads to: are premium-name pens actually worth their price-tag (again looking at you, Montblanc)?

What ever fake I do have I always tell people "This is a fake." My heart won't let me hide it.

[Keyless Works]

I think Montblanc is the only one that makes sense to fake because people actually know the brand. I am always shocked to see the high quality ST Dupont fakes; surely it must be difficult and expensive to produce them. A good quality product shouldn't be easy to fake. I have never seen a good Hermes or Goyard fake but there seems to be plenty of relatively believable LV fakes.

 

Also I think it is immoral to knowingly buy a fake. The factories that make fakes don't likely abide by international standards which are already incredibly low. Also it's bad for the brand to have a bunch of fake versions of your product floating around. It undermines the brands integrity.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Keyless Works

[Uncle Red]

I'm always surprised there aren't MB fake collectors. There are people that collect fake Leica cameras (not much of a cost savings) and Matt Groening collects fake Simpson's merchandise.

[Bo Bo Olson]

shocked to see the high quality ST Dupont fakes

 

Very high quality, a bit better tipping or smoother then it would have been the best €35 pen in the world by far....could get €100 for it and be a real good price. Great paperwork, case, little adds, the whole smear.

Bought in hopes at a flea market.....Jar told me 'no cigar'.

 

In spite of not liking nails, some day I'll get a real one, the fake was that good.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Bo Bo Olson

[KBeezie]

I'm surprised you were the unlucky one.

 

 

Yea I was trying to name an example, ie: a Watch company that starts with an R, vs a Watch company called Invic..... ta (in case it flagged that too), one is sought by even the laymen who are not serious watch people other than they know it's "expensive" name, the other not so much.

 

Amk said it best as it's the pens that art 'status symbols' to non-pen people that are most likely going to be counterfeited, especially if their appearance is relatively easy to pass off.