Note-Taking: A Different Perspective

[dothgrin]

Have you tried Sketch Note taking? If not, here is a great link to get started: http://www.schrockguide.net/sketchnoting.html

I started this a couple years ago, and it has changed how I take notes. Some of my students do it now and I have seen major changes in their ability to retain information. It is especially fun with my fountain pens! (It also seems to stop students from writing down "nonsense", as Waski mentioned, and also changed how I presented information to my students as well).

[ailevin]

The "function" or utility of note taking varies not only with the activity, but the intent of the note taker. Court is a good example where you have a stenographer preparing a transcript, lawyers, jurors, bailiff, etc. taking different sorts of notes, and perhaps journalists taking notes and sketching.

 

I've found that taking notes on a computer while reading gives me a rather different result than taking notes with pen and paper. On a computer, I am more likely to identify the most important sentences or paragraphs to quote into my notes. Often I will choose a sentence or phrase that best typifies the portion I am reading. With pen and paper I am more likely to synthesize and re-express what I have read in my words. I believe that I think more and write less with pen and paper. I also editorialize more when writing by hand.

 

While I think that computer tools are excellent for writing and rewriting, I am taking written notes more and more at presentations, at meetings, and while reading. And of course it helps feed my pen and paper obsession.

[GTVi]

Hello this my first post.

For business meetings, and brainstorming sessions I use "Mind Mapping" by Tony Buzon. Not only does it allow flexibility in taking notes, but also helps me to remember all the key information.

[alexander_k]

Having tried out every new note-taking technology I could get in a professional context (not as demanding as a legal court), I've come to the conclusion that for me at least note-taking isn't about registering what is said and done but about retrieving meaningful items from the notes. Digital techniques offer many possibilities but with the exception of annotating documents (mostly digital), I remain convinced that pen and paper is the most direct and efficient manner of note-taking and that the choice of medium is not neutral: good note-taking tools can have a tremendous influence on the user's attitude and performance.

[Bookman]

Having tried out every new note-taking technology I could get in a professional context (not as demanding as a legal court), I've come to the conclusion that for me at least note-taking isn't about registering what is said and done but about retrieving meaningful items from the notes. Digital techniques offer many possibilities but with the exception of annotating documents (mostly digital), I remain convinced that pen and paper is the most direct and efficient manner of note-taking and that the choice of medium is not neutral: good note-taking tools can have a tremendous influence on the user's attitude and performance.

 

Hear, hear. I always note-take by hand, which mean an FP. I'm satisfied with my skills, but I'm always open to new information about technique and so I'll check out dothgrin's link. In the end I want to have imprinted the key information on my brain and, later on, I want to be able to make sense of my notes. Now, where are the donuts?

[Lou Erickson]

I see several people here who are having good luck with various forms of visual note taking - the sketch notes, the mind maps, etc.

 

While it is great to make sure people know about those techniques, so they can try them and discover they work very well, please don't demand people use them. I nearly failed a course in school because the instructor insisted on mind maps, and would grade us on them. I am not that kind of visual thinker; I don't do well at mind maps, and the requirement that I suddenly become good at them was terrible. By all means, share a technique that might help a visual thinker who hasn't seen it, but don't force it on, or make it a requirement for everyone.

[ddyager]

Reinforcing what many have said here, research published recently contrasted the effectiveness of written vs typed notetaking in a lecture and found that 1) where pure memorization was required writing and typing were equally effective, and 2) where comprehension was required, writing was significantly more effective. Effectiveness was determined through tests after the lectures.

[knarflj]

I see several people here who are having good luck with various forms of visual note taking - the sketch notes, the mind maps, etc.

 

While it is great to make sure people know about those techniques, so they can try them and discover they work very well, please don't demand people use them. I nearly failed a course in school because the instructor insisted on mind maps, and would grade us on them. I am not that kind of visual thinker; I don't do well at mind maps, and the requirement that I suddenly become good at them was terrible. By all means, share a technique that might help a visual thinker who hasn't seen it, but don't force it on, or make it a requirement for everyone.

 

Hear, hear! I am so thankful no one ever made me do that; I can imagine all too well how terrible that class must have been for you. My class notes always looked like outlines, and that's still the way my mind works best to take notes.

 

I do think mind maps (and their kin) are great for those who think that way; I even use them occasionally myself, but mostly for brainstorming, not for organization and retention.

[wallylynn]

Have you tried Sketch Note taking? If not, here is a great link to get started: http://www.schrockguide.net/sketchnoting.html

I started this a couple years ago, and it has changed how I take notes. Some of my students do it now and I have seen major changes in their ability to retain information. It is especially fun with my fountain pens! (It also seems to stop students from writing down "nonsense", as Waski mentioned, and also changed how I presented information to my students as well).

Thanks for the link! Personally, it won't work for me but it's good to see these ideas. As said earlier, taking dictation and taking notes are two very different things. And it's a disappointment that I was never taught how to take notes when I was back in school.

 

It was only after finding the internet, that I learned of the Cornell method. But by then, I was already leaving school.

Nowadays I'm trying to adopt the Bullet Journal, as all I need are just to-dos and bits of information.

 

 

 

 

[prf5]

Reinforcing what many have said here, research published recently contrasted the effectiveness of written vs typed notetaking in a lecture and found that 1) where pure memorization was required writing and typing were equally effective, and 2) where comprehension was required, writing was significantly more effective. Effectiveness was determined through tests after the lectures.

 

The Mueller and Oppenheimer study that's alluded to here has become something of an urban fountain pen legend. Typically, as above, the study results are reported in a misleading way. Longhand notetaking has advantages, but what the study actually shows is that the relationship between notetaking and performance isn't clear and simple. I suspect tyat ddayger and others who have cited this work haven't actually read the study, but relied on a non-verbatim typewritten summary. Here are some of the pertinent issues:

 

First, students listened to lectures about unfamiliar material, so the results can't be generalized to usual classroom situations. Second, tests of factual memory and conceptual comprehension weren't validated, so we don't know what they were actually measuring. Third, in order the analyze the data, the authors transformed the performance scores, so we don't know how well either group actually performed.

 

Fourth, the most important finding, IMHO, is that both factual and conceptual performance is related mainly to two somewhat inconsistent factors: number of words taken and amount of verbatim overlap between notes and the lecture. These factors were significant even when the group effect was entered into the model. In other words, it's not the medium of notetaking alone (longhand versus laptop), but medium plus number of words minus amount of verbatim overlap.

 

Fifth and finally, the authors didn't enter factual recall as a another predictive factor (a covariate) in testing conceptual performance. Were those who scored highest on the conceptual tests the ones who took the most comprehensive written notes and recalled the material best? Or conversely, were those who scored lowest on the conceptual tests those who took the least comprehensive typed notes and recalled the material least? The study was interesting, but fancy statistical models combined with simplifying assumptions are bound to leave crucial questions unanswered.

 

And to echo Sasha's comment, where are the donuts?

[gweimer1]

I never knew whether I took "good" notes or not in school, but I got good grades. Without a formal technique, it tended to be the basic paraphrase or summary of a key point. Then, I got in a serious car accident in 1981. After I recovered, I found (in my own mind) that I had developed a bit of short term memory loss. Note taking became a little different. What I have now found, and I think this applies in general, is that when I write something down, even a key point, I will more likely remember it. If I am personally engaged and actively part of the meeting/session/lecture, then I take more of it away. I was never able to capture it all just by listening, and I never understood those younger kids in my later classes who did nothing but stare at a screen and try to type every word they heard.

So, to that end, I take a LOT of notes during my day. I keep dated composition notebooks of all my work activity - yes, I even use three colors of ink to identify the content, a possible side note or idea, and a bullet point or completed action. I start each week with a list of things I plan to do, and I review the list during the week.

 

And with writing a big part of my day, I just HATE a poorly functioning pen. I gave in to the dark side.

[Just I]

Very good topic - I am learning a lot.

 

I take a lot of notes at work but 90% basically boils down to a to-do list and deadlines.

 

I spend a lot time communicating the policies and ideas of the company and don't really "take notes" when we are discussing the policies - I am awful with numbers so I will write those down as well as key words. After the discussion is over, I paraphrase the results and will write down in point form the key elements I will need to communicate. Basically a list of concepts and points I need to include. I use a lot of symbols and abbreviations and little drawings. I also tend to doodle during meetings, it keeps me focused and my while one of my co-workers think it is "unprofessional", consistent good results mean the bosses don't mind. (The same co-worker thinks only blue ball or black points should be used in the office, even for personal notes. My colourful pages drive her nuts but help me keep organized. There have been times I have found notes quicker because I can visualize the orange doodle I did during the meeting).

 

At a conference I went to in the spring, I drew each of the speakers along with key parts of the presentation that spoke to me. I am awful with names and found that helped in going back to through my notes. I tended to write notes that said not what they were saying but ideas I had to implement when I got back to my office.

 

I bought a book on sketch noting a few weeks ago - I love the idea and am looking forward to learning more about it.

[tinysnail]

This has been a really interesting thread! Really enjoying everyone's point of view of what note-taking method works best for them.

 

I finished my undergrad in math this fall and about to start grad school, still in math. I've found that my way of taking notes has worked really well for me, but is probably particular to math. Professors write out lecture notes on the board and explain some main ideas while everyone writes the notes on the board down. I am able to write very quickly so I write down everything on the board, as well as most of what the professor says, especially if they're particularly illuminating on helpful on certain points. This has worked well for me! I do get paranoid about having ALLLLL the information. It's come in handy on multiple occasions, as I sometimes remember things from lectures that my classmates didn't, points said only verbally in particular. Still, you really can't get around not writing everything on the board down. There's a lot of necessary detail and having a complete set of lecture notes is important. Outside of class, I make a lot of summary notes for myself, which may include goofy diagrams or "mind maps" or whatever.

 

Could there be a more efficient way of doing this? Maybe, but I'm not willing to experiment when this "write everything down" method has served me exceedingly well. I am the kind of person who learns well by writing things down. Even if a professor is teaching straight out of a book I have, I'll still take complete notes in the lecture since I know I won't get the same understanding if I don't.

[milkb0at]

My notes are usually simple, often bullet points, but I try to make connections or hierarchies.

 

- I use single words or short phrases -> summarise the point.

-> I use arrows and indentations for extra detail

 

--------------------

This is important

--------------------

^

|

But don't forget the context.

Edited August 30, 2014 by milkb0at

[gweimer1]

My notes are usually simple, often bullet points, but I try to make connections or hierarchies.

 

- I use single words or short phrases -> summarise the point.

-> I use arrows and indentations for extra detail

 

--------------------

This is important

--------------------

^

|

But don't forget the context.

 

Yep. That's where color can come in handy, too.

[prf5]

I finished my undergrad in math this fall and about to start grad school, still in math. I've found that my way of taking notes has worked really well for me, but is probably particular to math. Professors write out lecture notes on the board and explain some main ideas while everyone writes the notes on the board down. I am able to write very quickly so I write down everything on the board, as well as most of what the professor says, especially if they're particularly illuminating on helpful on certain points. This has worked well for me!....It's come in handy on multiple occasions, as I sometimes remember things from lectures that my classmates didn't, points said only verbally in particular....Outside of class, I make a lot of summary notes for myself, which may include goofy diagrams or "mind maps" or whatever....there be a more efficient way of doing this?

 

 

I think you have it covered. In courses that emphasize symbolic representation such as math, you are well advised to commit to notes what the instructor puts on the board, and what he or she explains and amplifies in presenting the material. By making summary notes, you are developing conceptual understanding; by talking to your colleagues, you are testing your memory and understanding. I still consult some of the formulas and derivations in my notes from classes long ago, so what you are developing will have both short- and long-term benefit. I found it handy it write questions, models, and thoughts that occurred during and after class on a different side of the paper or in a different color, to help distinguish my ideas from the instructor's. The contrast has proven especially useful in hindsight.

Edited August 30, 2014 by prf5

[tinysnail]

 

Yep. That's where color can come in handy, too.

 

YES! Colours and boxes and stars. I'm all over that. Theorems in one colour, boxed in another, the following proof in black. The more you can add visual organization to your notes, the better you can recall them. My photographic memory has saved me more than a few times thanks to this.

 

 

I think you have it covered. In courses that emphasize symbolic representation such as math, you are well advised to commit to notes what the instructor puts on the board, and what he or she explains and amplifies in presenting the material. By making summary notes, you are developing conceptual understanding; by talking to your colleagues, you are testing your memory and understanding. I still consult some of the formulas and derivations in my notes from classes long ago, so what you are developing will have both short- and long-term benefit. I found it handy it write questions, models, and thoughts that occurred during and after class on a different side of the paper or in a different color, to help distinguish my ideas from the instructor's. The contrast has proven especially useful in hindsight.

 

Thank you! A lot of this discussion seems to be on different kinds of note-taking, including business meetings and the like, so it's been a really interesting read. The fact that you still consult old notes (as do I!) affirms my decision to use bulletproof/eternal inks for taking notes. I'm going to try to incorporate that last point of yours, since that's a really neat idea. Good for interacting with the material more.

[Cryptos]

Thanks to everyone who has and is contributing to this thread. I was apprehensive about posting the topic because usually anything that smacks of self-criticism (i.e. is my method good enough?) tends to be instantly polarizing and often draws hostility. After a slightly rocky start I think it has turned into a very interesting little discussion.

 

I have tried many different note-taking methods, and most have been unsatisfactory, either in their basic methodology, how it fits with my mind, or how well I can apply it. Take Chronodex for example. I see how it can be used as a planner, although I have no real need of a planner right now, but I thought I could adapt it as a note-taking model using some elements of mind-mapping as a base. In the end I spent more time wondering how best to do it than actually using it. And it looks so good to me. So that was another fail.

 

Presently I use a kind of bullet-journal approach modified to suit my current needs, and this is working well so far. Important criteria for me are hierarchies and associations. So my bullets get linked and grouped as I go along. I am studying epidemiology right now and it's the kind of subject that lends itself well to such a note-taking method. Some students asked me about the way I linked clumps of information in my notebook, as they occurred at widely spaced intervals in the lecture. They thought there was no link. When I ask them to review their notes they can see that the lecture is properly structured to build understanding. However, because they simply type it in as they sit in the lecture hall they only saw discrete information. So those few students learned something new that day: namely that they were not processing what they were being taught.

 

Ultimately we have to find what works for us on the individual level. Unfortunately there are a lot of people selling "Method" books who are super-enthusiastic about 'their' method (as they should be) and that can lead people along a few wrong paths if a little caution isn't exercised.

 

And one further point: to address something that Lou mentioned. I don't think anyone here is saying you should or should not use this or that method. I am grateful that people have highlighted their favoured methods as it gives me more tools to assess and play with!

 

It would also be interesting - if I had the time and energy - to cross-reference this thread with those "what pen and ink will make my note-taking easier" threads I alluded to in the OP. I wonder how many contributors to those threads have contributed to this one.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Cryptos

[ddyager]

Interesting .... based on our discussions of the paper, some of my colleagues here in the psychology department would agree with prf5 in his response to my earlier post. It generates interesting discussions. My point, however, is that believe them or not, the ideas from the paper seem to fit well with the experiences many people have been talking about in this thread regarding the advantages of written notes that focus on important ideas, especially in contrast to typed verbatim notes.

Another interesting current discussion we have regards electronics in the classroom. Largely because of the distraction potential, a number of faculty here completely ban laptops, pads, and phones in their classrooms. This means that students who have relied on typed notes in the past have to return to pen and paper and in some cases, new note taking strategies. I'm trying it in a couple of my smaller classes this year and am anxious to see the responses. There probably won't be a rush on fountain pens at the campus store, but maybe I can pass on some of the excellent points from this thread.

David

Edited August 30, 2014 by ddyager

[zepp]

let me put gregg's shorthand on my learning list..