Do All Cursive Italics Improve Your Cursive

[Elle_]

Or is that just a a Pendelton Brown phenomenon? I cannot tell you how much better my writing looks with a nib he did. I am tempted to send all of my stock nibs off to him, but before I do I was wondering if I were to get a cursive italic from, say, Richard Binder, would it also improve my writing AND be silky smooth? Or is the improved writing unique to Pendleton Brown's cursive italics?

Edited August 28, 2014 by Elle_

[ac12]

A CI will NOT improve your handwriting, it just makes it look different because of how it lays down ink.

YOU have to improve your handwriting.

The fact that you are using a CI may be causing you to write differently and better, simply because it is much wider on the down-stroke, so you pay more attention to your writing.

 

A cheap way of seeing this is to get a Pilot 78G with a B or BB nib. The B is about a 1.1mm nib.

Or a Lamy pen with a 1.1 or 1.5 italic nib. If you have a Safari, just get the 1.1 or 1.5 nib. I use the 1.1 nib in my joy and cp1.

 

You also need the space to use a CI nib. I find that a 1.1 nib is about as wide as I can use on wide ruled paper. I would not use it on college ruled paper.

Edited August 28, 2014 by ac12

[KBeezie]

The main difference between a "Cursive" Italic and just Italic is that the edges are a bit softer so that it's easier to write with without snagging onto the paper, though that also means the points or edges won't appear as crisp. Stubs are similar except they're much more rounded at the edges so that it's much easier to user, but gives up the crispness of the line variations.

 

ac12, the B/Stub I got on my 78G was not 1.1 was more like a 0.7-0.8, and it's more of a stub than a CI. (But the pen is less than $12...)

 

I like my Goulet 1.5 stub for the width, very smooth and easy to use. The Lamy 1.9 I have is about as smooth, just a little too big for my taste, it however produces a visibly thinner/sharper line on the horizontal than my Goulet 1.5.

Edited August 28, 2014 by KBeezie

[Apothic]

See if you can pick up

 

Writing Illuminating & Lettering by: Edward Johnson

 

and

 

Lloyd Reynolds Italic Hand Calligraphy and Writing

 

Those two books made me really fall in love with Calligraphy. Also, Lloyd has a series that used to be on TV where he'd teach you was you watched. If you're more of a visual learner (like me), watch as you follow his book.

 

Lloyd Reynolds' Italic Calligraphy & Handwriting: Episode 1 ...

[kernando]

Using a cursive italic over an italic should make your italic more cursive.

 

For cursive, you're better off using a round point, and flexible is more fun if you like hairlines versus downstrokes.

[KBeezie]

Using a cursive italic over an italic should make your italic more cursive.

 

For cursive, you're better off using a round point, and flexible is more fun if you like hairlines versus downstrokes.

 

Nothing to do with cursives (as in the writing strokes), just easier to write with compared to a formal italic.

 

 

An italic nib has a wide thin tip cut straight across, for creating broad strokes in a generally up-and-down direction (relative to the nib itself) and narrower strokes in a generally sidewise direction.

To make it easy to use, a cursive italic has “softened” (rounded) edges and corners so that it is smooth and will not dig into the paper. Most people can write fairly rapidly and easily with a cursive italic.

From : http://www.richardspens.com/pops/nibs/cursive_italic.htm

Most of the nibs you'd find cheap and common (ie: Goulet 1.1/1.5, Lamy 1.1/1.5/1.9, Monteverde 1.1/1.5 etc), are stubs.

 

An italic nib has a wide thin tip cut straight across, for creating broad strokes in a generally up-and-down direction (relative to the nib itself) and narrower strokes in a generally sidewise direction.

To make it extremely easy to use, a stub italic has “softened” (rounded) edges and corners so that it is smooth and will not dig into the paper.

 

As opposed to a straight crisp italic:

 

An italic nib has a wide thin tip cut straight across, for creating broad strokes in a generally up-and-down direction (relative to the nib itself) and narrower strokes in a generally sidewise direction.

A crisp (“formal”) italic is a calligrapher’s nib. It has very sharp edges and corners to give the greatest and most precise line variation (contrast between broad and narrow strokes). This design makes it quite scratchy, and the corners will dig into the paper unless you use very light writing pressure. Most people must write slowly and with great care when using a crisp italic.

If you hold your pen so that the nib faces straight upward, not tilted to either side, a plain crisp italic should work well for you. If you rotate the pen so that the nib leans or tilts to either side (toward you or away from you), you probably need an oblique nib.

Edited August 28, 2014 by KBeezie

[Apothic]

Make your own reeds if you really want to mind your hand. Those books will teach you.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Apothic

[Icywolfe]

I wonder what does a Music nib count under? A cursive Italic?

[KBeezie]

I wonder what does a Music nib count under? A cursive Italic?

 

Maybe more of a stub italic? Since isn't it designed to be written from just about any angle with maximum flow? (well least the 3 tine types I'd imagine)

[Icywolfe]

But from one of the Goulet's QA they said the music nib was ground on all four corners.

[KBeezie]

But from one of the Goulet's QA they said the music nib was ground on all four corners.

 

Wouldn't that mean it's smoothed to write on all four corners, as such like a stub in being extremely easy to write with? Otherwise you'd start scraping the paper at certain more extreme angles.

 

ie:

 

Crisp = primarily on the one side that's very sharp and any hasty deviation or pressure can cause tears/scratches

Cursive = smoothed to be easier

Stub = Smoothed to be waaaaay easier

 

I want to try a music nib (just not sure who'd make the best one of the three japanese brands, was thinking platinum at first), but from the sound of it it's very easy to write with, which makes me think of a stub. Just wish I saw an actual music writing example to demonstrate how it can make certain strokes that a mere stub/etc wouldn't.

Edited August 28, 2014 by KBeezie

[Icywolfe]

I actually went to school for composing music but i remember using a pencil same for the teacher.

 

i have a jowo 1.1 stub and I find that extremely hard to write with. It's hard starts and skipping. I sub consciously turn a tiny bit to side.

 

I'll try to find music nib video tomorrow.

[KBeezie]

I actually went to school for composing music but i remember using a pencil same for the teacher.

 

i have a jowo 1.1 stub and I find that extremely hard to write with. It's hard starts and skipping. I sub consciously turn a tiny bit to side.

 

I'll try to find music nib video tomorrow.

 

Sounds like an issue with the 1.1 specifically (and if the surface isn't aligned or polished to a certain extent, you can sometimes fix it up with some micro-mesh after aligning it, among other culprits such as the feed contact), my 1.5 Goulet (Jowo made) is VERY smooth and very well flowing, even with a dryer ink like Salix with no skipping or hard starts.

Edited August 28, 2014 by KBeezie

[Bo Bo Olson]

Nope. But writing slower, enjoying the nice pattern, can make your hand writing better in you are not in such a hurry and want to see well formed letters.

[Millefleurs]

 

I like my Goulet 1.5 stub for the width, very smooth and easy to use. The Lamy 1.9 I have is about as smooth, just a little too big for my taste, it however produces a visibly thinner/sharper line on the horizontal than my Goulet 1.5.

I purchased a Lamy 1.1 nib that I didn't like at all (way too scratchy for my taste), but I've been thinking of getting a 1.5. Is the difference pretty substantial, do you know? I ask because I picked up a very cheap medium italic pen (the brand escapes me now, and I'm away from my desk so can't check it) that I LOVED writing with. I was hoping the 1.1 would replicate that experience, but it didn't.

[cellmatrix]

It would be helpful on threads like these to distinguish what kind of cursive hand one is referring to. A lot of times when people use the term cursive they are thinking about looped cursive ie Palmer, Mills etc. This can look better with cursive italic nib but the handwriting that is even more ideally suited to cursive italic nibs is cursive italic. So I would suggest if you are writing with a looped style, try learning to write cursive italic, it could bring a whole new dimension to your PB nibs. Anyway, enjoy your pens, Pendleton is stellar at his nib work!

[KBeezie]

I purchased a Lamy 1.1 nib that I didn't like at all (way too scratchy for my taste), but I've been thinking of getting a 1.5. Is the difference pretty substantial, do you know? I ask because I picked up a very cheap medium italic pen (the brand escapes me now, and I'm away from my desk so can't check it) that I LOVED writing with. I was hoping the 1.1 would replicate that experience, but it didn't.

 

Well I don't know about Lamy's 1.5 specifically, but here's the Lamy 1.9 above the Goulet 1.5

 

[Elle_]

I am referring to Palmer. I had no idea this was such a popular topic. Is cursive italic considered calligraphy?

Edited August 28, 2014 by Elle_

[KBeezie]

I am referring to Palmer. I had no idea this was such a popular topic. Is cursive italic considered calligraphy?

 

Is Spencerian? (even though it can be written with no line variation what-so-ever).

Edited August 28, 2014 by KBeezie

[dneal]

To answer your original question - italics / cursive italics / stubs will add a little flair to your "ordinary" cursive writing, simply because of the line variation they impart.