Your Thoughts On Pre-Ground Speciality Nibs For Vp

[KBeezie]

So I currently have a Blue Carbonesque Vanishing Point with a Fine 14K Nib (Rhodium plated) that I got used but I had to soak, clean, align/etc it, and even after all the cleaning I attempted it's still a very dry writer unable to squiggle a square patch on paper completely or sometimes fading in the middle of writing before allowing the feed to catch up again.

My prefered choices of inks don't exactly flow quite as well in the VP but has been no problems in any of my other Pilot pens so I just figured this was mainly an issue with the VP nib units (and maybe there might be some ancient ink deep in the feed where the metal covers, despite having soaked it overnight least on two occasions). Though Iroshizuku Tsuki-yo seems to be flowing consistently, just not wet (and I only got maybe 1ml left of that from the sample vial), would love to use the Liberty's Elysium in it though (akkerman #5 being a close non-waterproof alternative).

Since a new nib unit is relatively inexpensive (56 if I wanted to get an unplated one from Richard binder or 62 for rhodium plating), I was looking at the possibility of spending a bit more for one of their pre-ground specialty nibs. I understand that either route, they will test and adjust the nibs before shipping (which I presume also means checking for adequate flow).

The main thing I'm curious about are between something like an italic (possibly softer cursive, and *maybe* in a left oblique since I do sometimes tilt slightly to the left when writing faster), or something like the ItalliFine for dual-purpose. Kind of wondering what 0.9 and 0.7 is like on paper when it comes to the VP nibs.

Figured after I got one, I could decide to keep the fine nib set aside as a backup, or probably sell it (ie: 40ish to offset the new nib's cost, etc).

I'm also curious about the Waverly XXF if they're as smooth as they say, and in the grand scheme of things, just $10 if I want to attempt going finer (better suited ink is of course warranted).

I have a second Vanishing Point coming with a Medium 14K nib, so I have that as an option (meaning I won't feel 'stuck' with just one nib size for either of my VPs, whichever way I decide to replace the Fine).

Edited August 28, 2014 by KBeezie

[AndrewC]

Try blowing some water through the nib unit with a squeeze bulb. Maybe try flossing the tines to increase flow as well. My F units keep up well with my writing when I am taking notes, but I do find some inks just do not work as well as others. I think given the smaller feed that may just be how it is. The F is not as smooth as the M, but flow is the same. I have never heard anyone complain about Richard's VP nibs, and you can contact him for custom work if he has the nibs-in this case he does, of course- so you can go that route. BTW, I find VPs are finicky about how the converter is set, if you are using that. It really needs to be set tight-tighter than you might think reasonable. It took me a couple times to realize that, yes, I really DO need to crank that sucker on. Once I got the converter on right my flow was much better.

[KBeezie]

Try blowing some water through the nib unit with a squeeze bulb. Maybe try flossing the tines to increase flow as well. My F units keep up well with my writing when I am taking notes, but I do find some inks just do not work as well as others. I think given the smaller feed that may just be how it is. The F is not as smooth as the M, but flow is the same. I have never heard anyone complain about Richard's VP nibs, and you can contact him for custom work if he has the nibs-in this case he does, of course- so you can go that route. BTW, I find VPs are finicky about how the converter is set, if you are using that. It really needs to be set tight-tighter than you might think reasonable. It took me a couple times to realize that, yes, I really DO need to crank that sucker on. Once I got the converter on right my flow was much better.

 

Blowing Water : Done That (it's usually what I do during every ink change)

Brass Sheet Tine Floss* : Done That (also ran down the feed channel just in case any was trapped in there)

 

My F is currently very smooth, it's just the flow that's the issue with my choices of ink, Tsuki-yo being the closest I've come to ideal with it.

 

*btw this step when I did it a couple days back did improve the consistency greatly in terms of keeping it flowing once started. So I do suspect that least in part, there was a piece of fiber trapped somewhere in the tine. Course flow in general is still quite dry that the ink itself is almost a shade or two lighter than you'd expect.

 

I wonder if they have a pricing to adjust my existing nib unit, or if it's just better to get a brand new adjusted one from them.

Edited August 28, 2014 by KBeezie

[Elyptic]

I have a beautifully writing F nib unit. And while I love to for many things, it's really fine! So I'm in the same boat as you. I was thinking of picking up a M nib unit from Richard Binder, but then I started looking at potentially getting a custom grind (my first).

 

My problem is that I really don't want it to end up writing too much thicker than a Pilot M. Perhaps a 0.5 stub. I'm just trying to decide if it's worth it over a standard M nib unit tuned to write nice and wet.

[Icywolfe]

Try rotating the pen a bit the sides?

 

Try bending the tines a bit?

[xwingrox]

Have you tried writing with a stub nib before? I would really try the Nemosine Singlarity 0.6m stub or a Lamy Safari stub as a cheap surrogate for one of the more expensive VP stub nibs. You don't want a true italic unless you are writing calligraphy. If you actually like writing with a stub nib on a daily basis, then go and spring for the custom VP nibs. I would even call in and talk with someone on the phone (I talked to John Mottishaw today about a nib) to make sure you know what you're getting into.

For reference, I bought a 0.7 Binder stub and ended up selling it. Turns out I actually don't like using a stub with my regular cursive hand. I didn't take the time to test out a stub nib (the Lamy 1.0 stub isn't a really good barometer) and I ended up regretting my purchase. That's why I said to go for the 0.6 Nemosine because I think it's the only cheap stub you can get for under $20 (Maybe the Pilot 78g broad? But that's a stubby broad, not a stub nib)

 

Regarding the XXF - Do you like writing with 0.3 Hi-tech C pens? If you don't, then don't spend more money for an uber fine nib that will write like a needlepoint gel pen

YMMV

Edited August 28, 2014 by xwingrox

[KBeezie]

Have you tried writing with a stub nib before? I would really try the Nemosine Singlarity 0.6m stub or a Lamy Safari stub as a cheap surrogate for one of the more expensive VP stub nibs. You don't want a true italic unless you are writing calligraphy. If you actually like writing with a stub nib on a daily basis, then go and spring for the custom VP nibs. I would even call in and talk with someone on the phone (I talked to John Mottishaw today about a nib) to make sure you know what you're getting into.

For reference, I bought a 0.7 Binder stub and ended up selling it. Turns out I actually don't like using a stub with my regular cursive hand. I didn't take the time to test out a stub nib (the Lamy 1.0 stub isn't a really good barometer) and I ended up regretting my purchase. That's why I said to go for the 0.6 Nemosine because I think it's the only cheap stub you can get for under $20 (Maybe the Pilot 78g broad? But that's a stubby broad, not a stub nib)

 

Regarding the XXF - Do you like writing with 0.3 Hi-tech C pens? If you don't, then don't spend more money for an uber fine nib that will write like a needlepoint gel pen

YMMV

 

I hated the Nemosine 0.8 when I had it, too dry, rubbery on the paper (probably unpolished surface), very hard starter, very annoying (and yes I clean all my pens/nib/feed out of the box before using the first time).

 

My Goulet 1.5 stub on the same pen (Nemosine Singularity Demonstrator) was muuuuucch smoother and very consistent and steady with the ink flow and it's what I been using for a large stub since around late march with some R&K Salix.

 

I also have a Lamy 1.9 stub which I Don't normally use (instead I normally have a crimped black coated fine nib on there that I've aligned and adjusted for flow [to be a tiny bit dryer for the ink], as well as smoothed very nicely with just the right amount of feedback and good consistent flow/thickness onto the page).

 

The ~0.8 stub on the Pilot 78G was very similar to the Nemosine I tried, except not rough or rubbery on the page but shared the same flow issue as if the nib couldn't spread the ink correctly across the tipping (ie: inconsistent width, like writing water onto plastic). It did ok-ish with Iroshizuku Ama-iro but that was about it.

 

But those are all stubs, designed to be 'very easy' to write with, and with the exception of the Pilot 78G's nib, they're also a bit larger in overall size (both nib and feed) than the Vanishing point so I was curious.

 

Also the ones listed on binder's site are not more than 1.0, rather it's a choice of either 0.7 or 0.9 (closer to what I was playing with on the 78G which was decent width-wise). But I was mainly curious about the cursive italic which would be slightly crisper than most of the stubs.

 

Although alternatively (still deciding) if I didn't want to go that big in a clicker (ie: something I'd likely have on me a lot), I could try to go the other route and get a waverly XXF since I'll have a separate VP with a medium. I'd trust that an XXF ground and tweaked by Binder would good smoothness and flow than just grabbing an EF or F untouched out of the box.

 

I've never tried a 0.3 Hi-Tech but my Platinum PTL-5000 being a 14K EF does around 0.18 (or so this says anyways), and I've used a Platinum Century 3776 with a Soft Fine which was probably one of the smallest tippings I've had of anything marked as a "Fine", and I have two other pens that are finer than that (one finer than the PTL-5000) being my Touchdown Admiral with a Feathetouch accounting nib, and a Montblanc 225 with a 14K ... I'm going to say Jpn EF which I'm wondering if it was a custom grind because not sure if Montblanc ever put anything out that fine.

 

Far as stubs I currently have (I no longer have the 78G, was traded off), it's just the Goulet 1.5 and Lamy 1.9, with the Sailor 1911 with a Zoom nib coming in a close third for some varied ability to change the line width.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/uploads/imgs/fpn_1409230558__sketch_aug_28.jpg

 

And this was a few days ago when I still had the 3776 and had the PTL-5000 inked on a sheet of Rhodia No.16 pad.

 

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/inked/rhodia_aug_25_2014.jpg

 

I could deal with small, as long as the flow is good (Which may require sticking to specific inks).

 

Edit:

Back on May 30th when I had the TD Admiral inked.

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/inked/rhodia_inked_may30.jpg

 

My most used preference certainly leans on fine, for normal writing Western Fine tends to be the thickest I like.

Edited August 28, 2014 by KBeezie

[Elyptic]

Have you tried writing with a stub nib before?

This is my major concern. I've tried some poorly adjusted stubs before and didn't really like them. On the other hand, I'm reasonably confident that ordering from Binder would provide me with one of the best examples of this nib configuration available.

 

So I guess the better question - is writing with a stub more or less enjoyable for everyday tasks? I had assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that a well tuned stub would be just as enjoyable (or given the quality of Binder grinds, even more enjoyable) than a similarly well adjusted standard nib.

[KBeezie]

This is my major concern. I've tried some poorly adjusted stubs before and didn't really like them. On the other hand, I'm reasonably confident that ordering from Binder would provide me with one of the best examples of this nib configuration available.

 

So I guess the better question - is writing with a stub more or less enjoyable for everyday tasks? I had assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that a well tuned stub would be just as enjoyable (or given the quality of Binder grinds, even more enjoyable) than a similarly well adjusted standard nib.

 

For everyday, I'd like it, as long as it's below 1.0mm on the thick side. But I'd like to have a slightly sharper corners on the strokes, with the stubs it's a bit too rounded/broad on the angles. Straight lines on a stub are still decent on the horizontals, but when I go to curve it's like they're a little too rounded not giving quite as dramatic a change from thin to thicker, and I don't need that huge a line variation, as if the edging was sharper it'd be more pronounced even if the two ends didn't change size.

Edited August 28, 2014 by KBeezie

[Elyptic]

Based on that, the 0.7 IntelliFine seems like a great option (or perhaps a 0.9). I'd love to see writing samples of both though as I'm not overly familiar with the line widths.

[AndrewC]

"I wonder if they have a pricing to adjust my existing nib unit, or if it's just better to get a brand new adjusted one from them."

 

Well, Richard won't take work in, but there are plenty of others that will. Mike Masuyama does great work. He has ground several of my nibs, and tweaked them for flow. Here's a link with prices- Most nibsters/repair people do flow adjustment. Dunno if Pendelton Brown does VP units but he has ground and tweaked a couple of my pens at a show and I love the work. Deb Kinney, Indy-Pen-Dance (apprenticed under Richard Binder) Southern Scribe, Ron Zorn, there are many who do flow adjustments, and it would still be cheaper than a new nib. Of course, with mail going up, I'm not sure how much... PenHero.com has a list (Pen Bookmarks) of folks who work on pens if you are not familiar with it. There are many folks out there that are just as good as the expensive folks when it comes to flow and minor tweaks, but cost a lot less. For getting a nib that is ground to some thing other than what Pilot does without a wait and you know will work? Richard is hard to beat.

[discopig]

I have an Italifine 0.9mm cursive italic nib unit by Richard Binder. It is a pretty awesome nib, I can turn it upside down if I have to write on bad paper because it's ground to a fine on the other side. The nib is so smooth I don't even know how even Mr Binder managed it. It's a CI with extreme line varation but it's as buttery smooth as a stub.

 

However, 0.9 is way too wide for regular use on bad paper, but if you like doodling or writing at home it can make your writing look pretty interesting.

Edited August 29, 2014 by discopig

[xwingrox]

This is my major concern. I've tried some poorly adjusted stubs before and didn't really like them. On the other hand, I'm reasonably confident that ordering from Binder would provide me with one of the best examples of this nib configuration available.

 

So I guess the better question - is writing with a stub more or less enjoyable for everyday tasks? I had assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that a well tuned stub would be just as enjoyable (or given the quality of Binder grinds, even more enjoyable) than a similarly well adjusted standard nib.

 

In my experience, a stub isn't all that great if you write quickly with a cursive hand. My sister loves her stubs but she prints her words. Then again, this all super subjective. If you can put up the money go for it!

[KBeezie]

Well Noodler's Black Eel certainly does the trick on flow, better than Pilot Black was. (and the lubrication is making it even smoother, even though I got it pretty smooth already, not quite as smooth as my MB225 on regular notebook paper, but close). Will probably stick that unit into the Black Carbonesque VP when it arrives (to match the body color), which is fine for me since I'll probably put blue into the medium unit if it works alright on flow.

 

 

So, I'll take that since I got a full bottle of Black Eel and it'd be the only other pen besides my MB225 currently inked with it. (doesn't flow quite as nice for Liberty's Elysium, but will see if the medium does).

 

Going to do some looking around, and hit up RichardPens at a later time regarding a custom grind of something like a cursive italic at 0.5 or maybe even an ItaliFine @ 0.5~0.7 if possible. Looking around 0.9 might be a bit much for my comfort but I'd still like to get something like that in a VP (not a huge fan of the clip in the front by where you write, but the overall capless convenience and smoothness is growing on me).

[Moshe ben David]

 

Blowing Water : Done That (it's usually what I do during every ink change)

Brass Sheet Tine Floss* : Done That (also ran down the feed channel just in case any was trapped in there)

 

My F is currently very smooth, it's just the flow that's the issue with my choices of ink, Tsuki-yo being the closest I've come to ideal with it.

 

*btw this step when I did it a couple days back did improve the consistency greatly in terms of keeping it flowing once started. So I do suspect that least in part, there was a piece of fiber trapped somewhere in the tine. Course flow in general is still quite dry that the ink itself is almost a shade or two lighter than you'd expect.

 

I wonder if they have a pricing to adjust my existing nib unit, or if it's just better to get a brand new adjusted one from them.

 

I don't think Richard Binder accepts work anymore to adjust a nib unit you already have; IIRC he stopped accepting such work about a year ago. Of course he does still check new nibs when you buy them as well as custom grind a new nib. I've bought several VP nib units from him, including F. No problems with flow at all. Mostly I'm using Pilot ink on these although one is dedicated to using Sheaffer Skrip red ink and it also performs perfectly.

[AndrewC]

If you like the "clicky" pen action but not the clip, try a Decimo if you can get your hands on one, or look for one of the older faceted VPs like this-http://www.dannzeman.com/2014/06/30/for-sale-black-faceted-namiki-capless-vanishing-point-fountain-pen/

I tried 3 VPs but could not adjust to the clip. My Decimo and faceted VP are my go-to pens for when I am taking notes and roughing out articles.

[KBeezie]

If you like the "clicky" pen action but not the clip, try a Decimo if you can get your hands on one, or look for one of the older faceted VPs like this-http://www.dannzeman.com/2014/06/30/for-sale-black-faceted-namiki-capless-vanishing-point-fountain-pen/

I tried 3 VPs but could not adjust to the clip. My Decimo and faceted VP are my go-to pens for when I am taking notes and roughing out articles.

 

Both the Decimo and Ferno seem to have the same style of clip.

 

http://www.jetpens.com/Pilot-Capless-Decimo-Fountain-Pen-18K-Gold-Fine-Nib-Gray/pd/2648

[Koyote]

 

So I currently have a Blue Carbonesque Vanishing Point with a Fine 14K Nib (Rhodium plated) that I got used but I had to soak, clean, align/etc it, and even after all the cleaning I attempted it's still a very dry writer unable to squiggle a square patch on paper completely or sometimes fading in the middle of writing before allowing the feed to catch up again.

My prefered choices of inks don't exactly flow quite as well in the VP but has been no problems in any of my other Pilot pens so I just figured this was mainly an issue with the VP nib units (and maybe there might be some ancient ink deep in the feed where the metal covers, despite having soaked it overnight least on two occasions). Though Iroshizuku Tsuki-yo seems to be flowing consistently, just not wet (and I only got maybe 1ml left of that from the sample vial), would love to use the Liberty's Elysium in it though (akkerman #5 being a close non-waterproof alternative).

Since a new nib unit is relatively inexpensive (56 if I wanted to get an unplated one from Richard binder or 62 for rhodium plating), I was looking at the possibility of spending a bit more for one of their pre-ground specialty nibs. I understand that either route, they will test and adjust the nibs before shipping (which I presume also means checking for adequate flow).

The main thing I'm curious about are between something like an italic (possibly softer cursive, and *maybe* in a left oblique since I do sometimes tilt slightly to the left when writing faster), or something like the ItalliFine for dual-purpose. Kind of wondering what 0.9 and 0.7 is like on paper when it comes to the VP nibs.

Figured after I got one, I could decide to keep the fine nib set aside as a backup, or probably sell it (ie: 40ish to offset the new nib's cost, etc).

I'm also curious about the Waverly XXF if they're as smooth as they say, and in the grand scheme of things, just $10 if I want to attempt going finer (better suited ink is of course warranted).

I have a second Vanishing Point coming with a Medium 14K nib, so I have that as an option (meaning I won't feel 'stuck' with just one nib size for either of my VPs, whichever way I decide to replace the Fine).

 

 

It's not an issue with the VP nib units - it's an issue with your VP nib unit.

 

I have medium and broad VPs, and they have nice flow. If your fine nib can't write consistently it has a problem.

[AndrewC]

"Both the Decimo and Fermo seem to have the same style of clip." Couldn't say about the Fermo as I have never used one. The Decimo is smaller than the standard VP, as is the clip. The older facetted model has a clip that is more flush to the barrel of the pen.

[KBeezie]

It's not an issue with the VP nib units - it's an issue with your VP nib unit.

 

I have medium and broad VPs, and they have nice flow. If your fine nib can't write consistently it has a problem.

 

Yea I figured that much out, mainly curious if it was a trend since I've seen comments about VP EF and F nibs being dry out of the box (just how dry...). But I've chalked it up to the specific nib itself.

 

To top it off. I got the second VP today with an 18K Medium, he thought he was sending me a 14K, when I mentioned 18K he's like "oh so that's why it seemed so much more 'springy'" (which the nib unit doesn't fit into the blue carbonesque because it appears to be an older one and will scrap the bottom of the feed coming out of the opening on the blue one).

 

Course that Medium was sprung (springy cuz it got sprung, and not like Sir Mix A Lot)...

 

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/vp/nibs_front.jpg

 

As you can see the tipping don't close at all on the right, resulting in more of a Pilot Broad.

 

I got the tipping corrected (closed now) and smoothed and that one is working like a charm at the right stroke size and good flow (as I moved nib itself over to the same feed that the "F" was on, so I know it's not the feed that's causing flow issues, it's specifically the "F" nib). I moved the nib over directly because I want to use Liberty's Elysium in the blue pen with the M nib, but I can't just switch the nib unit, so I switched the nibs.

 

Now if I can get the F nib flowing well, I can use those while contemplating which binderdized specialty nib I will want in the near future. (ie: going smaller, or going italic).

 

"Both the Decimo and Fermo seem to have the same style of clip." Couldn't say about the Fermo as I have never used one. The Decimo is smaller than the standard VP, as is the clip. The older facetted model has a clip that is more flush to the barrel of the pen.

 

I knew what you were saying with the Facetted model, as it just all seamlessly leads up to the nib without having to deal with the clip ridges. It's just that the Decimo didn't look all that different and would seem like it'd have the same annoyance.

Edited August 30, 2014 by KBeezie