Highly Dislike The Pilot Varsity; Should I Try Another Fountain Pen?

[donovan1983]

First of all, I'd like to say this place is quite a treasure trove of information! I've learned a ton in just a few days.

 

For a few months I've been searching for a better pen to use. I'm a student and sometimes need to write a large amount and the ultra-cheap pens I've used just don't work well for that. Those that I have to press down with to write solidly are noticeably worse for fatigue and cramping. I've tried a few pens and am still searching and I thought I'd give fountain pens a shot. The Pilot Varsity seem to be recommended a lot for beginners and I picked some up a couple days ago.

 

The good parts are that they require virtually no downward pressure to write with, are fairly smooth, and force me to be less sloppy with how I write. That's where the good points end for me. The ink is simply awful with tons of feathering and soaking through the paper. The lines are very thick and compete with the "bold" size of rollerball and ballpoint pens. I am using cheap notebook filler paper since I use a large volume of it and need to keep costs down, but even on my nicer 24lb printer paper the results are still terrible.

 

Is it worthwhile for me to consider giving a shot to another fountain pen or are fountain pens just not suitable for how I'm going to use them? I have read some reviews about inks that seem to handle cheap paper much better and the Japanese fine and European extra-fine nib sizes appear to be just about the right thickness.

 

Thanks very much in advance for any advice!

[tinysnail]

It sounds like your issues with the Varsities are mostly with the ink and fair broad nib, while you like the aspects of the Varsity that have to do with it being a fountain pen in general, which is a good sign!

 

The finer the nib the better for super cheap paper. I have a whole bunch of inked pens at the moment, so once I get home from work I'll write a line with each on cheap paper (and then on better paper) to give you an idea.

 

For a cheap pen with a super-fine nib, I can recommend the Pilot Metropolitan with a fine nib right off the bat. It's about on par with my EF Lamy Safari, but it's cheaper.

[Cryptos]

Or a Pilot 78G. As a 'throw it in the bag' pen I am amazed at how well behaved it is and how smoothly the nib glides. Cheap too!

[ac12]

The ink is NOT awful. The problem is the paper that you are using.

All paper is not the same.

If you use a fountain pen, you NEED to use paper that is friendly to fountain pens.

And it is not a matter of cost.

Go to Staples and get their single subject, wire bound, made in BRAZIL notebooks. I just checked and they are still 17 CENTS each. This is what I use.

Similarly for their filler paper, you want the BRAZIL paper. 82 cents for 120 sheet pack.

Note the country of origin, BRAZIL paper seems to be the best overall quality for fountain pen use. I would NOT get the lower priced paper from any other country.

 

Your printer paper is probably inkjet paper.

For fountain pen use, you want to use LASER paper, which will not blot like inkjet paper.

Again, you need to use paper that is friendly to fountain pens.

 

Writing with a fountain pen depends on 4 variables: ink, pen, paper, writer. The wrong choice on any one of the 4 can create an unpleasant writing experience.

 

For a new pen, your nib should be a F or XF, and the nib should be a dry to medium wetness. This minimizes the amount of ink put onto the paper, which minimizes the feathering and bleed through.

The wetter inks are more likely to feather and bleed, especially if used in a wet pen.

Edited August 26, 2014 by ac12

[Glenn Atkins]

Use either 32lb HP Premium LaserJet paper and print lines on both sides or any of the Bagasse (sugar cane based paper) from any of the big box stores like Staples or Office Depot.

 

This is without a doubt a paper problem.

 

Glenn

[Sasha Royale]

Excellent, Donovan ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

 

That is exactly the reason I recommend the Pilot Varsity. You have told us what you like and what you dislike.

Do you like the feel of the Varsity ? Are you comfortable with the size, or would you prefer fatter ? Thinner ?

The Pilot Varsity IS quite "wet". It lays down more ink, and , as such, bleeds through the paper. Some solutions:

1. thicker paper

2. a drier pen -- finer nib or faster drying ink or less penetrating ink

3. pencil -- lots of advantages to carrying three #2 pencils. Recopying of notes in fountain pen aids in studying.

 

What do you think of the LAMY Safari ?

 

I used a fountain pen throughout college. I wrote only on one side of the paper. It is much faster writing just on

the right side of my notebook. In studying, I had the backside of the previous page for diagrams, etc.

 

I know. It's hard. College is for learning. One skill to learn is budgeting resources.

[theinforat]

As a fellow student, I understand and feel your pain. I have and surprisingly good luck with Reinforced Five Star Notebook Paper (made in the USA), it's a bit more expensive, but I'm prone to tearing paper and whatnot so I use it anyway. It may not be the most smoooooth paper, but it gets the job done. I actually have only ever used J. Herbin inks (yes, they are a bit expensive), but in my Parker 45 F nib (which I highly recommend as a student pen), together, they get the job done. Eclat de Saphir is my main ink at the moment, though Cafe de Isles does well too. I use them both with minimal show through. It's not so bad that you can't write on the back side of the notebook paper. As for tests which require that low down el cheapo copy paper, I continue to use a ballpoint. I haven't tried anything that worked remarkably well on the copy paper we use at school...

 

Hope I could help!

[tinysnail]

Here's a comparison of 17 different pens on cheap paper vs. better paper. Rhodia or Clairefontaine would be even better. Sorry I don't have my Metropolitan F on there; it needs reinking as it turns out. Also, the Pelikan nib is a fine nib after all.

 

paper comparison by tinylilsnail, on Flickr

 

You can probably click through to see a higher-res image.

 

Basically: you CAN get away with cheap paper if you use very fine nibs. I could write on both sides of a page happily with my Lamy EF nibs. However, it's not going to be as pleasant as using better paper (Apica, HP Laser, Rhodia, Clairefontaine) and you do run the risk of getting a lot of nasty paper fibers in your nib.

 

As a fellow student, I understand and feel your pain. I have and surprisingly good luck with Reinforced Five Star Notebook Paper (made in the USA), it's a bit more expensive, but I'm prone to tearing paper and whatnot so I use it anyway. It may not be the most smoooooth paper, but it gets the job done.

 

Is that paper much different than the Five Star Heavyweight Refill Paper? I got the Heavyweight paper on the weekend, out of curiousity, and I've found it to be pretty absorbent but not unbearably so. About $4 for 200 sheets is a-ok and it's certainly thick enough that writing on both sides of the page is no problem.

 

edit: ugh, it looks like I didn't scan properly... but I hope you still get the picture. Super fine nibs don't feather much on cheap paper and the lines still stay pretty fine.

Edited August 26, 2014 by tinysnail

[Downcelot]

It's not the pen fault nor yours. I'm with everyone on this one. You just have to understand the nature of Pen + Ink + Paper... It is a combo. Many replies have alerted you about this so I won't add more. Don't give up on fountain pens, if you go to hand in your works for your professors, well presentation of your home work can always get you a (+) in your grade. Sometime, if you get a B+, it can be B++ and a generous professor may give you A-. A- is an A in GPA scale.

[donovan1983]

Thanks very much everyone for the helpful advice!

 

Here's a comparison of 17 different pens on cheap paper vs. better paper. Rhodia or Clairefontaine would be even better. Sorry I don't have my Metropolitan F on there; it needs reinking as it turns out. Also, the Pelikan nib is a fine nib after all.

 

You can probably click through to see a higher-res image.

 

Basically: you CAN get away with cheap paper if you use very fine nibs. I could write on both sides of a page happily with my Lamy EF nibs. However, it's not going to be as pleasant as using better paper (Apica, HP Laser, Rhodia, Clairefontaine) and you do run the risk of getting a lot of nasty paper fibers in your nib.

Thank you very much for doing that! It is very helpful. Not to mention the very nice range of inks shown.

 

It also helps me realize that I may have been unduly harsh on the Varsities as far as the feathering goes and that may be something I'd have to get used to with fountain pens in general. The printer paper I use (Boise Polaris 24lb) isn't that much worse with them than the HP paper you showed. The filler paper I use (Staples 8.5x11", Egypt-made) is a little worse than the filler paper you showed.

 

That Lamy Safari extra-fine line size is pretty much exactly what I'd hope for. If the Pilot Metropolitan fine is that size I think I'd like it. The price does seem reasonable.

[william2001]

It sounds like your issues with the Varsities are mostly with the ink and fair broad nib, while you like the aspects of the Varsity that have to do with it being a fountain pen in general, which is a good sign!

 

The finer the nib the better for super cheap paper. I have a whole bunch of inked pens at the moment, so once I get home from work I'll write a line with each on cheap paper (and then on better paper) to give you an idea.

 

For a cheap pen with a super-fine nib, I can recommend the Pilot Metropolitan with a fine nib right off the bat. It's about on par with my EF Lamy Safari, but it's cheaper.

Yeah, Metropolitan is not bad.

-William S. Park

[ParkersAndPaper]

In your situation I'd suggest a Pilot Metropolitan or even better, a Parker 45 with fine nib.

[tinysnail]

Thanks very much everyone for the helpful advice!

 

Thank you very much for doing that! It is very helpful. Not to mention the very nice range of inks shown.

 

It also helps me realize that I may have been unduly harsh on the Varsities as far as the feathering goes and that may be something I'd have to get used to with fountain pens in general. The printer paper I use (Boise Polaris 24lb) isn't that much worse with them than the HP paper you showed. The filler paper I use (Staples 8.5x11", Egypt-made) is a little worse than the filler paper you showed.

 

That Lamy Safari extra-fine line size is pretty much exactly what I'd hope for. If the Pilot Metropolitan fine is that size I think I'd like it. The price does seem reasonable.

 

I've inked up the Pilot Metropolitan F, now, and here's a comparison with the Lamy EF on the cheap paper:

http://33.media.tumblr.com/a493a4c15e159592ff6e7236fe386320/tumblr_naw4vyiGCK1qgziczo1_500.png

 

I do find that they're about the same line width, in practice. Today at work, I was using the Pilot F until it ran out of ink (Noodler's Purple Heart), then switched right to the Lamy and could barely tell the difference since the ink colours were almost the exact same, too.

 

I understand the frustration you felt! Don't worry about it. You will definitely have much better results on nicer paper.

 

I would definitely recommend the Metropolitan. It's a really great little pen. I do like the fact that you can interchange the nibs on the Lamy Safaris (I have EF, F, M, B, and 1.5mm italic already! Oh god. I'm out of control), but you really can't go wrong with either pen... hence why I actually have three of both, I guess.

[ac12]

 

It also helps me realize that I may have been unduly harsh on the Varsities as far as the feathering goes and that may be something I'd have to get used to with fountain pens in general. The printer paper I use (Boise Polaris 24lb) isn't that much worse with them than the HP paper you showed. The filler paper I use (Staples 8.5x11", Egypt-made) is a little worse than the filler paper you showed.

 

That Lamy Safari extra-fine line size is pretty much exactly what I'd hope for. If the Pilot Metropolitan fine is that size I think I'd like it. The price does seem reasonable.

 

I bought the Egypt filler paper last year.

I tried one sheet and took them all back for a refund. Definitely NOT fountain pen friendly.

Get the Brazil paper and you will see what I mean.

 

The Staples Sustainable Earth 20# sugar cane paper is good stuff. I would save it for your fountain pen, and not use it in your printer.

The HP 32# premium paper is really nice stuff, but at a higher price. It is nice and smooth, perfect for my XF nibs.

You have to determine what price point you can afford.

Edited August 26, 2014 by ac12

[donovan1983]

Excellent, Donovan ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

 

That is exactly the reason I recommend the Pilot Varsity. You have told us what you like and what you dislike.

Do you like the feel of the Varsity ? Are you comfortable with the size, or would you prefer fatter ? Thinner ?

The Pilot Varsity IS quite "wet". It lays down more ink, and , as such, bleeds through the paper. Some solutions:

1. thicker paper

2. a drier pen -- finer nib or faster drying ink or less penetrating ink

3. pencil -- lots of advantages to carrying three #2 pencils. Recopying of notes in fountain pen aids in studying.

 

What do you think of the LAMY Safari ?

 

I used a fountain pen throughout college. I wrote only on one side of the paper. It is much faster writing just on

the right side of my notebook. In studying, I had the backside of the previous page for diagrams, etc.

 

I know. It's hard. College is for learning. One skill to learn is budgeting resources.

The feel of it is nice. It's about the perfect size for my (small for a guy) hands. Something longer and slightly heavier is fine, but I wouldn't want something too much thicker nor thinner.

 

I bought a Uniball Kuru Toga mechanical pencil over the summer and it is great for math notes and is easily the best mechanical pencil I've ever had, and it wasn't even expensive. I don't think I could ever really use a non-erasable pen (I have used a Pilot Frixion erasable before) for math notes since I like to keep them neat.

 

I've looked at reviews for the Lamy Safari and it looks nice and the grip looks like it might be less fatiguing since it would naturally keep the pen oriented correctly. The price does make me a bit hesitant since it puts me squarely in the "I'm really committed to this" territory.

 

I only write on a single side of my paper right now since it is easier to flip through my notes later and much easier to write in the first place since the binder gets in the way for the backside of pages. It is a big part of why I go through a lot of paper, though.

 

As a fellow student, I understand and feel your pain. I have and surprisingly good luck with Reinforced Five Star Notebook Paper (made in the USA), it's a bit more expensive, but I'm prone to tearing paper and whatnot so I use it anyway. It may not be the most smoooooth paper, but it gets the job done. I actually have only ever used J. Herbin inks (yes, they are a bit expensive), but in my Parker 45 F nib (which I highly recommend as a student pen), together, they get the job done. Eclat de Saphir is my main ink at the moment, though Cafe de Isles does well too. I use them both with minimal show through. It's not so bad that you can't write on the back side of the notebook paper. As for tests which require that low down el cheapo copy paper, I continue to use a ballpoint. I haven't tried anything that worked remarkably well on the copy paper we use at school...

 

Hope I could help!

Thank you for the recommendation of the Five Star Reinforced paper. It's not super cheap but is a far cry from some of the papers I've seen recommended for fountain pens and seems on-par with laser paper.

[donovan1983]

 

I bought the Egypt filler paper last year.

I tried one sheet and took them all back for a refund. Definitely NOT fountain pen friendly.

Get the Brazil paper and you will see what I mean.

 

The Staples Sustainable Earth 20# sugar cane paper is good stuff. I would save it for your fountain pen, and not use it in your printer.

The HP 32# premium paper is really nice stuff, but at a higher price. It is nice and smooth, perfect for my XF nibs.

You have to determine what price point you can afford.

Good to know that it isn't just me for that particular filler paper. I honestly don't really like the stuff even for general use. Basically cheapness and being 8.5x11" are what it has going for it. I'm a little bit particular about my filler paper being 8.5x11" since it allows printouts and handouts to be put in my binder without making it more difficult to flip through my notes. Of course it does limit my selection a lot.

 

That Sustainable Earth paper seems reasonably priced. More expensive than the stuff I feed my printer (which is only $5 a ream at Micro Center) or the filler paper I use currently but the same as the other Staples 20lb printer paper.

[KBeezie]

Nutshell : bit of fuss over a $2 pen. if you just stick to finer nibs and dryer inks.

 

The long-ish response:

 

I fail to see the harm in ditching a $2 pen least once to try others especially other Pilots for under 15.

 

I've not tried the varsity myself, but I did try the Petit1 (not as common as it takes it's own little cartridges as opposed to being eye dropper filled), and I actually like that. If I am not mistaken both the Petit1 and Varsity share the same nib and feed, and the fine on mine was about as smooth as the fine on my Lamy. But for a $3 pen, I imagine it can be a hit or miss.

 

To echo what others have said in regards to paper and such:

 

The Finer the nib the better. My Petit1 with a "Fine" nib and blue-black ink does quite reasonable on cheap notebook paper, it goes down wet but not too wet given the fine nib.

 

Either pen can be syringe filled with a different type of ink (such as one of the Pelikan 4001 line which is dryer, to help prevent feathering/bleeding).

 

IF the "Fine" Pilot nibs aren't enough, the Pilot Penmanship with their EF may be dry enough, but it may also provide too much feedback for you.

 

I generally find Pilot's default colors (pilot black, blue, blue-black) to be a bit on the wet side. But they don't go crazy with a fine nib on most paper I use. The more expensive paper such as those black colored "Cambridge Limited" notebooks are absolutely horrible for just about *ANY* fountain pen, where as cheaper Mead 5-star (Same company) paper is much more well behaved at a fraction of the price. (likewise for fountain pens they may even outperform Moleskine).

[ink-syringe]

Pilot (Knight/78G/Metropolitan) with an F nib.

Better paper.

PenChalet has the Knight on blow out for $24 I believe.

Get one of those and some paper that won't feather and see if you still hate it.

If you do. Get yourself a gel pen. You are cured of the fountain pen disease. I congratulate you.

[tonybelding]

Lots of good advice in this thread, so I'll only briefly add a couple of points...

 

When I'm carrying a pen around and expecting to write on any sort of unknown paper that is handed to me (i.e. filling out forms, addressing envelopes, etc.), then Noodler's Black is my ink of choice. It has difficulty only with the very worst paper. It also has the advantage of being waterproof when dried on paper, yet comes off skin easily. (Just don't spill it on your clothes!)

 

I think nib sizes are a little misleading to beginners, because a lot of familiar ballpoints write approximately an EF line, and a lot of familiar rollerballs write about EF (0.5mm) or F (0.7mm) line. So... When the newbie who is unaware of this follows his natural impulse and buys a "medium" fountain pen, he is surprised by what a flabby and blobby line it draws.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Writing is 1/3 nib width&flex, 1/3 paper and 1/3 ink, and in that order.

Need a better paper and perhaps a dry ink like ... Pelikan Black, the blue fades, the brown is reddish brown. Too bad you can't get the blue black in the States.

Perhaps some one can recommend a dry blue.

Waterman is not dry, unless compared to some of Noodlers.

 

 

Hang around a while...problems solved in minutes, here on FPN.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Bo Bo Olson